True HP Aero For 2011

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
That`s exactly what i was trying to say if you are not going the extra mile with your system you will not need to spend the extra cash on 1/10 second timer. Alot of people read this information and spend big buxs on the wrong thing. Fast acting solenoids (yes) $$$ solenoids placed as close to nozzles as possible (yes)$$$$$ check valves in nozzles (yes) $$$$ and with this said you would be able to fine tune your system to a better degree not perfect but close...............Just hate to see people spend big buxs on something that they cannot benifit from thats all. over $300 buxs for a timer no way............
For one, the atc-422 I listed is a nice 1/10 second interval timer with a great track record coming in at just under $100- I don't know why r0m30 wants that particular model he's looking at, but it's his business and I'm sure he has his reasons, some people have the extra money to spend and just buy things they like. What I'd really hate is to see- is what happens over and over in hpa threads- people buying most of the parts and giving it a go but falling short of what works- then tossing the whole idea with all the money and time lost in frustration. Then they go and spread more misinfo about how it's impossibly hard and unreliable to achieve results with hpa. This way of growing has way more failures than successes, and I'm under the impression it's because of people missing just a single point about being able to control the mist and how it's really the most important factor. I said it in a pm recently, but it's really applicable here. HPA is a "go all the way, or go home" type system. Cutting even a single corner, and the whole thing comes unraveled. r0m indicated that just because he might not be starting out ideal, he will probably eventually get a bigger chamber, it's an easy enough change. He might as well not have to buy another timer while he's at it, although the atc model would be less than 1/3rd the price of the one he wants. I do see your point however Hammer, that the system will only be as strong as it's weakest link.

Ok, my curiosity has the best of me- r0m- why do you like the other timer over the atc? :)

By the way- I don't think check valved nozzles are necessary as long as the solenoids are near the nozzles- that's just an attempt to try to correct the situation when they are far apart, but it's not nearly as good as having them close together. Those check valve nozzles open and close at different psi, and although they'll eliminate some of the run on dripping, they will not deal with it completely. I don't think it hurts to have them however, but I don't think they'll have any added benefit when the solenoid/nozzles are positioned close to each other.

EDIT: I want to add one thing to chew on while I'm thinking about it. Perhaps often the hpa system doesn't fail, but it fails to deliver any different results than lp areo or even nft. It's really simple to see why though. If you oversaturate those roots, they'll never grow the hairs and hp root structure. Just because the delivery method is different and fancy, the amout of water getting on the roots will be the same as other techniques. So when you think of it in terms like that, you can see why the hp setup only delivers different results when it is properly designed AND tuned...
 

r0m30

Active Member
Ok, my curiosity has the best of me- r0m- why do you like the other timer over the atc? :)
a electrical shop can get hold of a digital timer that has 0.2 increments for on times as well as being able to set the overall pause time between cycles but this is going to cost me a bit $359 but i think it will be worth it
The one in the picture is a DIG5006-IP It has 1 second on intervals and 1 minute off intervals up to 5 min. I don't think it is going to be adequate. I've designed and bread-boarded a PIC based timer that will give me 0-127 period intervals for on and off with 2 selectable period durations, I can set each of the two periods to whatever I want by changing a constant defined in the code. I'm in the process of drawing the schematic to make sure I get the parts right before I order them. It should run about $25-30 for the parts.
I'm not spending $300+ on a timer, I'm building one for $30. Greenandmean is the one looking at the $300+ timer and he's in Australia so that may have something to do with it. Who knows what the total cost of an ATC may be for him after shipping and duties.
 
hey whats up guys.just wanted to post some pics of my plants.i have still have a lot of things to change up.for now i have 1 nozzle for each plant.next time i will have 2 but 1 higher level than the other.current using a cheap jet pump that max's out to 60 psi right now i have it at 55psi next round i will be trying to run 120psi or at least 100psi.so for now i guess im doing mid pressure aero.will here you go hopefully it helps out one of y'all.enjoy.2011-07-23_22-41-22_678.jpg2011-07-23_22-42-41_460.jpg2011-07-23_22-41-33_744.jpg2011-07-23_22-44-39_440.jpg2011-07-23_22-42-02_233.jpg
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Thanks for sharing those pics bigsmoker... It looks like Cav's setup from some inverse parallel dimension-hehe ;) . I can tell you put alot of work into that, nice craftsmanship. That big jet pump probably creates alot more flow than you actually need, but I do believe the bottom end of what's considered hp is actually 60 psi. I'm sure you'll get a finer mist when you get around to bumping it up another 40psi or so though. Couldn't make out where your nozzle placement was, is it just spraying up from the pipes in the bottom? I see the irrigation solenoid -is there an accumulator too? Thanks again man!

Edit: that pump looks familiar to me, is it one of those Goulds Aquaboost pumps with the integrated tank?
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
can u guys give me ur opinion on what these roots look like? its a Jack Herer. this is just one plant, no topping, no cutting. does it look good? thanksView attachment 1703008View attachment 1703009

Kinda sorta. See all the droplets collecting on the underside of your lid. That means you are way over misting. At this stage of development you may not notice a huge change, but keep dialing in your mist/pause time until you see the new root development. That will prepare you for where to begin wet/dry times on your next grow hth
 

hammer21

Well-Known Member
For one, the atc-422 I listed is a nice 1/10 second interval timer with a great track record coming in at just under $100- I don't know why r0m30 wants that particular model he's looking at, but it's his business and I'm sure he has his reasons, some people have the extra money to spend and just buy things they like. What I'd really hate is to see- is what happens over and over in hpa threads- people buying most of the parts and giving it a go but falling short of what works- then tossing the whole idea with all the money and time lost in frustration. Then they go and spread more misinfo about how it's impossibly hard and unreliable to achieve results with hpa. This way of growing has way more failures than successes, and I'm under the impression it's because of people missing just a single point about being able to control the mist and how it's really the most important factor. I said it in a pm recently, but it's really applicable here. HPA is a "go all the way, or go home" type system. Cutting even a single corner, and the whole thing comes unraveled. r0m indicated that just because he might not be starting out ideal, he will probably eventually get a bigger chamber, it's an easy enough change. He might as well not have to buy another timer while he's at it, although the atc model would be less than 1/3rd the price of the one he wants. I do see your point however Hammer, that the system will only be as strong as it's weakest link.

Ok, my curiosity has the best of me- r0m- why do you like the other timer over the atc? :)

By the way- I don't think check valved nozzles are necessary as long as the solenoids are near the nozzles- that's just an attempt to try to correct the situation when they are far apart, but it's not nearly as good as having them close together. Those check valve nozzles open and close at different psi, and although they'll eliminate some of the run on dripping, they will not deal with it completely. I don't think it hurts to have them however, but I don't think they'll have any added benefit when the solenoid/nozzles are positioned close to each other.

EDIT: I want to add one thing to chew on while I'm thinking about it. Perhaps often the hpa system doesn't fail, but it fails to deliver any different results than lp areo or even nft. It's really simple to see why though. If you oversaturate those roots, they'll never grow the hairs and hp root structure. Just because the delivery method is different and fancy, the amout of water getting on the roots will be the same as other techniques. So when you think of it in terms like that, you can see why the hp setup only delivers different results when it is properly designed AND tuned...
Thanks TB you hit the nail on the head.
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Thanks TB you hit the nail on the head.
Well- almost man... I kept referring to r0m as I got their ideas mixed up, and it was meanandgreen who was getting that timer- lol. r0m's building his own for fairly cheap, and honestly I think if he looks at mouser electronics he'll probably even be able to make it for under 10-20 bucks. I'm counting off the top of my head now, but it would seem there is about 6 of us giving this a go now. I don't recall in the history of these hpa threads that many people doing it all at once. It's a revolution I tell ya :o -haha
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
well for some reason prices over here seem to be expensive so i think i will have source a few things from over seas
Yeah man, might as well- it would seem even with all the shipping you'll still be gettin a better deal ;) The world is alot smaller now with the internet and second day air shipping :)
 

aerojunkie

Well-Known Member
These are the 8 stainless steel STC solenoids I changed my mind and got instead of the original ones I was considering- they are very heavy and seem bulletproof. The electronic portion can easily be detached and replaced for $10 if it ever wears out (the valves themselves seem like they will last a lifetime).
View attachment 1698470

TB, Where did you pick these up? What were your costs. Do they have an 1/8" orifice?
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
These are the 8 stainless steel STC solenoids I changed my mind and got instead of the original ones I was considering- they are very heavy and seem bulletproof. The electronic portion can easily be detached and replaced for $10 if it ever wears out (the valves themselves seem like they will last a lifetime).
View attachment 1698470

TB, Where did you pick these up? What were your costs. Do they have an 1/8" orifice?
Yes, as Kdn pointed out, that site has all sorts of options... Funny I said "bulletproof" because one of their models is "explosion proof" :D . It seems they have all sorts of offerings and with 1/8' orifices too...

I thought you might have dissappeared into the void of aero - welcome back...
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
subd great stuff
Hi fartman, your name cracks me up... I was recently laughing at the time someone accidentally typo'd and called fatman "fartman", but I guess it wouldn't be a typo in your case... :)
So are you interested in the hp aero concept?- Be careful, it starts off with a little interest, next thing you know there's an accumulator on your doorstep - hehe.
 

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Ok guys, I had found another thread by g-love, and wanted to repost a little of his root-porn for inspiration. I hope he doesn't mind, but it seems he has disappeared forever... His Atomix grow journals are really inspiring. He even showed an example of what too much watering looks like, so have a look for yourselves...


g-love day 2 roots.jpgg-love 2 wet roots example.jpg

g-love roots.jpgg-love santas beard.jpg
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Great shots. Now people can see why PodRacer called the roots pompoms. FYI they are much airier than they look, sort of like cotton candy
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
This could help answer some design/setup questions. thefatman aka fatman also mixes his own nutes: A simple description is I use an air atomized system using Delevan SN waste oil nozzles (I use several sizes)and an oil less compressor. I us most of the nozzles gravity fed instead of siphon. There is a small electric solenoid valve on each nozzle nutrient feed inlet and several larger electrical solenoids to control the air feeding the air inlets. The chambers which are under the plants are 36 inches deep and 1 square foot of space is allowed per plant. I use two nozzles per 4 square foot chamber. One is all I really need per chamber but I like redundancy in case one nozzle clogs. I list spray cycles based as dependent upon nozzle size. I run drain to waste in all phases of growth except the clone rooting stage where I recirculate and therefore use siphon feed for the nozzles. I do not user foggers in conjunction with the sprayers and I spray the same nutrients day and night even though I could spray just pH balanced water at night. I use Omron brand timers.

hth

 
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