For The "Liberals" In The Forum ...

undertheice

Well-Known Member
Another way of looking at it is this: The Democrats need no help in ripping apart and looting every last resource in this country, so why even allow an establishment Republican in office to help? He/she will only slow them down, not fight them on the necessary intellectual grounds. Will they give up the powers not afforded in the Constitution? I don't believe they will.

One of the reasons I'm a huge RP supporter is that I have a reasonable expectation he will relinquish those powers that are not in article II of the Constitution, and will veto anything the congress passes that is not constitutional. The others? They all say they will, but the more I watch their interviews and speeches on YouTube the less I believe them. RP has yet to do this from what I've seen.
so you have a crystal ball? you have some foreknowledge of the outcome of this particular battle of ideologies? i have always been a bit of a pessimist, with a rather dim view of humanity that is reinforced on a nearly daily basis, but even i wouldn't presume to count out the human desire for individual accomplishment just yet. governments have been usurping the power of their people for as long as governments have existed and still that individualist zeal survives. while politicians corrupt the best of our intentions and their statist followers clamor to fall in line behind that destruction, those intentions still exist in the form of the laws of this land. as long as those laws exist, there is the chance of some reversal of our fortunes. no one man holds our fate.

perhaps slowing them down is all that's required. perhaps enough people will wake up from their stupor and return power to the hands of the people. that same gradual change that has produced the ignorance displayed by people like buck has also limited the possibilities for every other citizen. not everyone is so lazy as to simply give in and lap up the leavings of an authoritarian regime. to approach the future with with such fatalistic defeatism and joining the ranks of the ignorant just doesn't seem to be an option. remaining true to one's convictions, even in the face of defeat, would seem the better alternative.
 

Charlie Ventura

Active Member
no, that is your ayn rand wet dream which has no basis in reality.

good luck living in a shitty novel that bores the shit out of even the most ardent reader.
This is just more of your typical Progressive bullshit. What happened, you couldn't find any misspelled words in my post to use as an opportunity to marginalize my writings? You'll just have to come to the understanding that Americans are wising up to your Alinsky bible antics.

Now how about using some intellect in your responses instead of just trying to ridicule, marginalize, and demean other posters. Come on Uncle Buckie, I just know you can do it.
 

Charlie Ventura

Active Member
so you have a crystal ball? you have some foreknowledge of the outcome of this particular battle of ideologies? i have always been a bit of a pessimist, with a rather dim view of humanity that is reinforced on a nearly daily basis, but even i wouldn't presume to count out the human desire for individual accomplishment just yet. governments have been usurping the power of their people for as long as governments have existed and still that individualist zeal survives. while politicians corrupt the best of our intentions and their statist followers clamor to fall in line behind that destruction, those intentions still exist in the form of the laws of this land. as long as those laws exist, there is the chance of some reversal of our fortunes. no one man holds our fate.

perhaps slowing them down is all that's required. perhaps enough people will wake up from their stupor and return power to the hands of the people. that same gradual change that has produced the ignorance displayed by people like buck has also limited the possibilities for every other citizen. not everyone is so lazy as to simply give in and lap up the leavings of an authoritarian regime. to approach the future with with such fatalistic defeatism and joining the ranks of the ignorant just doesn't seem to be an option. remaining true to one's convictions, even in the face of defeat, would seem the better alternative.
^^^ Wow and Double Wow! Great post UTI.
 

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
This is just more of your typical Progressive bullshit. What happened, you couldn't find any misspelled words in my post to use as an opportunity to marginalize my writings? You'll just have to come to the understanding that Americans are wising up to your Alinsky bible antics.

Now how about using some intellect in your responses instead of just trying to ridicule, marginalize, and demean other posters. Come on Uncle Buckie, I just know you can do it.
I find it amusing how Proggies, most of whom have never bothered to read Rand, love to criticize her work.

They forget that Uncle Tom's Cabin was a work of fiction, too.

I just purchased Rules for Radicals on Amazon.

I am looking forward to reading it.
 

Charlie Ventura

Active Member
I find it amusing how Proggies, most of whom have never bothered to read Rand, love to criticize her work.

They forget that Uncle Tom's Cabin was a work of fiction, too.

I just purchased Rules for Radicals on Amazon.

I am looking forward to reading it.
You're going to find it really eye-opening Johnny. After reading it, you'll be able to see right through the arguments of the progressives. You'll be laughing at every one of them on the talk shows. How they interrupt constantly and talk over the other guests. How they change the subject to deflect answers. How they rabble-rouse. Their whole line of tricks are contained in that book. That's why folks like Uncle Buckie can't stand a chance in a forum like this. After reading Alinski's book you/we are looking at their theater through a magnifying glass and we can clearly see what poor actors they really are.

After you read Alinski's book, here's another one you should read. Its a great read:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_85?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=rules+for+radical+conservatives+beating+the+left+at+its+own+game+to+take+back+america&sprefix=rules+for+radical+conservatives+beating+the+left+at+its+own+game+to+take+back+america




 

txpete77

Well-Known Member
so you have a crystal ball? you have some foreknowledge of the outcome of this particular battle of ideologies? i have always been a bit of a pessimist, with a rather dim view of humanity that is reinforced on a nearly daily basis, but even i wouldn't presume to count out the human desire for individual accomplishment just yet. governments have been usurping the power of their people for as long as governments have existed and still that individualist zeal survives. while politicians corrupt the best of our intentions and their statist followers clamor to fall in line behind that destruction, those intentions still exist in the form of the laws of this land. as long as those laws exist, there is the chance of some reversal of our fortunes. no one man holds our fate.

perhaps slowing them down is all that's required. perhaps enough people will wake up from their stupor and return power to the hands of the people. that same gradual change that has produced the ignorance displayed by people like buck has also limited the possibilities for every other citizen. not everyone is so lazy as to simply give in and lap up the leavings of an authoritarian regime. to approach the future with with such fatalistic defeatism and joining the ranks of the ignorant just doesn't seem to be an option. remaining true to one's convictions, even in the face of defeat, would seem the better alternative.
Sorry for the length, but I felt the need to be thorough with this - but still may fall a bit short.

Crystal ball, no... But I do have a fairly in depth understanding of history and the role of philosophy. When certain conditions occur, certain actions are taken by a people which are dependent upon their particular philosophy. For example, the philosophies of the Americans and the French in the late 18th century. Two similar situations, two completely different outcomes. Both ousted a tyrannical monarchy, one product was a federal government based on individual rights (with the exception of slavery), the other a democratic government based on collective rights.

I am actually pretty optimistic about the future, just not our immediate one. I'm not giving in by any means, and I don't count out any desire for individual accomplishment. We all have it in us... it is our nature to desire individual achievement, as well as in our nature to admire it (fiction novels are a great example of this, almost every one of them has a heroic protagonist who's pinnacle is some form of achievement). I think of my approach to this as more of a shock to the current form of the American Philosophy in order to return to what made us great.

Sometimes people need to see why something is bad in order for them to see what is good. I think that the 2006 Democrat majority in Congress and the 2008 election of Obama started it this, but just didn't quite do the job. If it did, then Romney, Perry and others of their ilk should have tanked in the polls. I'm doing my best to expose Perry and Romney as statists to everyone I can. I see the American people are still stuck on a R vs. D/conservative vs. liberal, instead of individualism vs. collectivism.

My voting strategy is not set in concrete though; November 2012 is a long way out in terms of politics, and much can change between now and then. A few debates can open up the eyes of the public. That's one of the reason's I would love to see the Libertarians enter the arena. All their candidate has to do is demonstrate how each of the other is just two different flavors of the same brand.

I don't need to have a candidate that will pull a complete 180, but I will still need a candidate that will at least turn us away from the direction we are going. One of the requirements of this is a candidate who has a strict adherence to the Constitution. He/She does not have to win every battle when it comes to this, but needs to put up a fight - and fight it for the proper reasons. If we don't go this route then we're pissing in the wind, so to speak. This election is the GOP's to win, unless they go about business as usual.
 

txpete77

Well-Known Member
I've read most of Rules for Radicals. I try to read up on opposing viewpoints as much as possible - mostly as a means to identify certain things during debate.

When people who don't know me come over to my house, they tend to stare at my bookshelf with a bewildered look. Among the mix are the Bible, Koran, Federalist Papers, Anti-Federalist Papers, Rules for Radicals, East minus West equals Zero, Communist Manifesto, the Constitution, Road to Serfdom, Coming Insurrection, Atlas Shrugged (among many other AR works), Narnia series, LOTR series, Ominous Parallels, etc. etc. It's pretty funny to watch them scratch their head for a few minutes.
 

reazon

Member
If you truly want to know the future of America...Instead of wasting your time reading bs books and listening to the bs news try learning about economics and history. Pull up a chart for the USD and there you have the future of the American market. Its funny that people get this wrapped up into politics having no clue that the WORLD market is whats controlling the masses...Our future has already started to be priced in and has already been predicted.
 

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
If you truly want to know the future of America...Instead of wasting your time reading bs books and listening to the bs news try learning about economics and history. Pull up a chart for the USD and there you have the future of the American market. Its funny that people get this wrapped up into politics having no clue that the WORLD market is whats controlling the masses...Our future has already started to be priced in and has already been predicted.
Yes by all means do not read, and do not follow current events.

We can't have people broadening their perspective; or keeping up with current events.

That would be intolerable. :lol:

Only pay attention to non-BS, like Alex Jones. :twisted:
 

txpete77

Well-Known Member
Propaganda geared to control the masses...
I can see your point (Bible, Quran, etc...) However I think people should read as much as they reasonably can, to include the BS - how else can you recognize their propaganda if you do not familiarize yourself with it? Those that choose to willfully ignore it stand the chance of falling right into it themselves.
 

mame

Well-Known Member
You're going to find it really eye-opening Johnny. After reading it, you'll be able to see right through the arguments of the progressives. You'll be laughing at every one of them on the talk shows. How they interrupt constantly and talk over the other guests. How they change the subject to deflect answers. How they rabble-rouse. Their whole line of tricks are contained in that book. That's why folks like Uncle Buckie can't stand a chance in a forum like this. After reading Alinski's book you/we are looking at their theater through a magnifying glass and we can clearly see what poor actors they really are.

After you read Alinski's book, here's another one you should read. Its a great read:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_85?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=rules+for+radical+conservatives+beating+the+left+at+its+own+game+to+take+back+america&sprefix=rules+for+radical+conservatives+beating+the+left+at+its+own+game+to+take+back+america




I could easily flood these boards with youtube videos of Fox News pundits doing exactly the same thing you are accusing progressives of... Fox News vs. Anthony Weiner ended in a yelling match 100% of the time after starting with O'reilly and co speaking over Wieners talking points so as to drown out an opposing viewpoint.
 

Johnny Retro

Well-Known Member
I have a love hate relationship with liberals. I hate a lot of their ideas and how they seek to achieve them but I love the fact some of those ideas would benifit me seeing as how I am poor.
I think this post pretty much sums it all up
 

mame

Well-Known Member
Hates what they stand for, but will accept it because they also offer benefits to the poor. Sounds about right to me
Okay? How do you explain all the wealthy liberals then? Just idiots?

Your trying to marginalize an entire idealogy based off of something one person said. Where have we seen this before? Oh yeah, the left points to the Tea party "get you govt hands off my medicare!" racist types all the time! I'm sure you enjoy it when you express a conservative view and someone calls you a "teabagger"?

My reasons for being a leftie really has nothing to do with any government benefits at all; I dont recieve any welfare... I dont even get much to go to school because I'm under 24 and my dad makes too much money. How do you explain my thought process? I dont receive any "handouts"... I must be brainwashed, eh? Fuck off.
 

Johnny Retro

Well-Known Member
Okay? How do you explain all the wealthy liberals then? Just idiots?

Your trying to marginalize an entire idealogy based off of something one person said. Where have we seen this before? Oh yeah, the left points to the Tea party "get you govt hands off my medicare!" racist types all the time! I'm sure you enjoy it when you express a conservative view and someone calls you a "teabagger"?

My reasons for being a leftie really has nothing to do with any government benefits at all; I dont recieve any welfare... I dont even get much to go to school because I'm under 24 and my dad makes too much money. How do you explain my thought process? I dont receive any "handouts"... I must be brainwashed, eh? Fuck off.
You seem like a very pissed off individual.

So what are YOUR reasons for being a "leftie"?

BTW, heres a story for you all.

"I recently asked my friend's little girl what she wanted to be when she grows up. She said she wanted to be President some day. Both of her parents, liberal Democrats, were standing there. I asked her, 'If you were President what would be the first thing you would do?'? She replied, 'I'd give food and houses to all the homeless people. Her parents beamed. 'Wow...what a worthy goal.' I told her, 'But you don't have to wait until you're President to do that. You can come over to my house, mow the lawn, pull weeds, and sweep my yard, and I'll pay you $50. Then I'll take you over to the grocery store where the homeless guy hangs out, and you can give him the $50 to use toward food and a new house.' She thought that over for a few seconds, then she looked me straight in the eye and asked, 'Why doesn't the homeless guy come over and do the work, and you can just pay him the $50?' I said, 'Welcome to the Republican Party.' Her parents still aren't speaking to me."

Oh and btw, im more moderate. There are just certain issues (usually the more important ones) that are brainless arguements, that more often than not, are in favor of the Republican Party.
 

BudMcLovin

Active Member
Okay? How do you explain all the wealthy liberals then? Just idiots?

Your trying to marginalize an entire idealogy based off of something one person said. Where have we seen this before? Oh yeah, the left points to the Tea party "get you govt hands off my medicare!" racist types all the time! I'm sure you enjoy it when you express a conservative view and someone calls you a "teabagger"?

My reasons for being a leftie really has nothing to do with any government benefits at all; I dont recieve any welfare... I dont even get much to go to school because I'm under 24 and my dad makes too much money. How do you explain my thought process? I dont receive any "handouts"... I must be brainwashed, eh? Fuck off.
Imagine that a liberal crying racism. Bravo!

I laugh in the face of anyone that calls me a teabagger and tell them only there mom can call me that because I did it to her last night.

Your age explains why your a liberal. When you get out of school and start getting raped by the tax code there's a good chance you'll change your mind. Hell your brain isn't even fully developed yet.
 

undertheice

Well-Known Member
Okay? How do you explain all the wealthy liberals then? Just idiots?
you may have just hit the nail on the head. with its short term gains at the expense of long term ambitions, there is a great deal of idiocy to the liberal agenda. of course there is no one answer to why we each choose our philosophies. misplaced compassion, lack of foresight, megalomania and an abiding fear of the choices we must each make every day, they all play their part. perhaps you hope to be one of those who gains control over others in this proposed statist society or maybe you just feel the need to be controlled. how much fear and self-loathing does it take to be so eager to hand over the freedom of choice for an apportioned slot within the herd? are you so worried over the choices your neighbors may make that you would regulate them into submission?

for my own part, i simply don't understand how i can subscribe to the individualist position. i'm a lazy son of a bitch and i would love to be taken care of for the rest of my life. the risks involved in personal responsibility have bitten me in the ass on more than one occasion, but i still resist the temptation to have government make my demands for me. i guess i just relish the idea of making my own decisions, with only my wits to catch me when i fall, and i see no reason to force others to abide by any other rules. force is, after all, what this is all about. the current liberal agenda embraces the idea that violent force is always justifiable to attain a better society, while the more libertarian philosophy is about allowing people, within the bounds of decency, to be as they are.

it's that word "liberty" that keeps sticking in my craw. to the statists it is something to be applied according to need. to me it is something that is the birthright of everyone and no other power has the right to infringe on it, whether it is government or the society around us. liberty isn't about what you get, it's about what you can do.
 
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