Unlevel ratios?

[Micheal Myers]

Can an unlevel ratio of nutes, say not enough grow, and too much CaMg+, cause plants to not eat regardless of how much you dilute? 20 gallons, hydroponics, 400w hps, Nova nutes.

 

[stinkyg]

not sure i get your Q but as long as ph is right plants eat until full of that particular element which leads to burn "over fert".
different brands of nutes use differing ratios !

 

[Micheal Myers]

not sure i get your Q but as long as ph is right plants eat until full of that particular element which leads to burn "over fert".
different brands of nutes use differing ratios !

Can't get the PH to stop, continues to rise. confused, set it to 5.5 and it rises into the mid 6's. What I meant was mixing the nova with to much CaMg+, If the ratio is wrong, will that cause the plants to constantly release the hydroxyle ions? As apposed to the other, hydrogen ions, which allows it to stabilize the PH?

 

[panhead]

Dont freak out over the ph.

Let it rise,even though you want to keep it in perfect balance just let it rise,the rise will level off,know one thing,the shit we hear about keeping ph 5.5 to 6.5 is bullshit & not in your plants best interest.

All nutes have different absorbtion rates at different ph,some are taken in best at ph 4.0 while others are taken in best at 8.0,obviously the extremes at either end are off limits but going a point in either direction isnt bad.

Let it climb but watch it,chances are it will settle down around 6.8 to 7.0,once it stops climbing watch the plants,if all is ok then leave it alone,not all strains prefer to be in the generalized ph area of 5.5 to 6.5,plants will push the water to where they want it at,if the ph is constantly rising & your mix ratios check out then let it go,my ph floats above 7 & below 5 every time i change the rez,the 1st week the rez floats up daily & no matter how much ph down i throw at it it keeps going up,i let it ride & after 4 or 5 days it levels off,change rez every two weeks & your good.

 

[Micheal Myers]

Dont freak out over the ph.

Let it rise,even though you want to keep it in perfect balance just let it rise,the rise will level off,know one thing,the shit we hear about keeping ph 5.5 to 6.5 is bullshit & not in your plants best interest.

All nutes have different absorbtion rates at different ph,some are taken in best at ph 4.0 while others are taken in best at 8.0,obviously the extremes at either end are off limits but going a point in either direction isnt bad.

Let it climb but watch it,chances are it will settle down around 6.8 to 7.0,once it stops climbing watch the plants,if all is ok then leave it alone,not all strains prefer to be in the generalized ph area of 5.5 to 6.5,plants will push the water to where they want it at,if the ph is constantly rising & your mix ratios check out then let it go,my ph floats above 7 & below 5 every time i change the rez,the 1st week the rez floats up daily & no matter how much ph down i throw at it it keeps going up,i let it ride & after 4 or 5 days it levels off,change rez every two weeks & your good.

Someone should do a good tutorial on PH balance, actually should have it's own section. I have never let mine climb above 6.2, and last night I gave up. Dropped it from 6.0 to 5.5 and went to bed. This morning it was @ 6.2. Dropped it back to 5.5 around 10am, and it's almost back to 6.1 again. Will try your advice, hope this works, cause I need a nap man!

 

[stinkyg]

i read somewhere i think from a breeder that during bloom its better to let the ph rise a bit to help the uptake of P or K i think it was P ?
anyone else have any thoughts on this or facts ?

 

[stinkyg]

i never knew some were best at a ph of 8 ? that does seem extreme.

 

[panhead]

i never knew some were best at a ph of 8 ? that does seem extreme.

It is extreme & not reccomended to go that high,there are different ph levels where plants best uptake different nutes & they vary wildly.

For the guy saying we need a ph tutorial you are correct,the hydroponics forum here lacks any real info.

Im currently working on a tutorial complete with nutrient charts showing what levels different macro & micro reach peak absorbtion at.

Im also including mix charts that show how to better control ph using fertilizer instead of ph up or down,reworking manufacturer feed charts is a must for stable ph in most cases,ive reworked my feed levels & ph is something i rarely even look at after the initial mix.

 

[Micheal Myers]

It is extreme & not reccomended to go that high,there are different ph levels where plants best uptake different nutes & they vary wildly.

For the guy saying we need a ph tutorial you are correct,the hydroponics forum here lacks any real info.

Im currently working on a tutorial complete with nutrient charts showing what levels different macro & micro reach peak absorbtion at.

Im also including mix charts that show how to better control ph using fertilizer instead of ph up or down,reworking manufacturer feed charts is a must for stable ph in most cases,ive reworked my feed levels & ph is something i rarely even look at after the initial mix.

Good deal, please send me the link when you get it up.
As for my PH, I changed the res, 300ppm, and the PH was 5.8 without any adjustment. I'm going to just let her climb. What would be considered the absolute limit in your mind? Not wanting to hurt my girls...

 

[Micheal Myers]

Anyone with knowledge in this area?

 

[Micheal Myers]

Leveled out @ 6.1-6.2, ate down to about 270, then quit eating and the ppms started coming up. PH bounced from 6.1 to 6.2 and back to 6.1, then up to 6.2....@300ppm now and 5.5, letting it rise again...

 

[panhead]

Good deal, please send me the link when you get it up.
As for my PH, I changed the res, 300ppm, and the PH was 5.8 without any adjustment. I'm going to just let her climb. What would be considered the absolute limit in your mind? Not wanting to hurt my girls...

Your not going to hurt the plants,did you notice the speed in how fast the ph rose from 5.5 up to past 6.0 ?

Its pretty fast,then the rise slows to a crawl correct ?

Let em ride,the plants push the ph to where they need it to be so they can best absorb whatever nutrient they are after,you will see the exact oposite of this sometime im mid bud cycle,the ph will fall every day.

Just watch it & resist the urge to knock it back down to 5.5, the plants are telling you they dont want to be at the perfect 5.8 that everybody talks about.

Let the plants stay in the upper 6 range for a few days & you will see what i mean,unless there is something wrong with the mix then its doubtfull the ph will rise out of healthy levels,a ph of 7.2 isnt going to hurt the plants short term,a ph of 6.5 can be sustained the entire grow with no damage to the plants.

If you want to understand this 1st hand your going to have to stop chasing a made up number,try it for 3 days,put the ph meter & chemicals away & let em do their thing,after you have stopped yanking the ph all over the place trying to hold a certian number the plants will balance things out all on their own but you have to stop chasing that number or the ph will never stabilize.


Just watch & do not adjust the ph for the next couple days,the fast rise in ph will have a specific spot where the rise slows to a crawl or stops cold,with constant adjustments you will never see it level off,ya gotta let go & let them do what they need to do,if the ph goes past 6.5 just knock it down a little & wait a day.

 

[Micheal Myers]

So does the 0.5 PH movement a day apply, or is that a myth also?

 

[Micheal Myers]

Your not going to hurt the plants,did you notice the speed in how fast the ph rose from 5.5 up to past 6.0 ?

Its pretty fast,then the rise slows to a crawl correct ?

Let em ride,the plants push the ph to where they need it to be so they can best absorb whatever nutrient they are after,you will see the exact oposite of this sometime im mid bud cycle,the ph will fall every day.

Just watch it & resist the urge to knock it back down to 5.5, the plants are telling you they dont want to be at the perfect 5.8 that everybody talks about.

Let the plants stay in the upper 6 range for a few days & you will see what i mean,unless there is something wrong with the mix then its doubtfull the ph will rise out of healthy levels,a ph of 7.2 isnt going to hurt the plants short term,a ph of 6.5 can be sustained the entire grow with no damage to the plants.

If you want to understand this 1st hand your going to have to stop chasing a made up number,try it for 3 days,put the ph meter & chemicals away & let em do their thing,after you have stopped yanking the ph all over the place trying to hold a certian number the plants will balance things out all on their own but you have to stop chasing that number or the ph will never stabilize.


Just watch & do not adjust the ph for the next couple days,the fast rise in ph will have a specific spot where the rise slows to a crawl or stops cold,with constant adjustments you will never see it level off,ya gotta let go & let them do what they need to do,if the ph goes past 6.5 just knock it down a little & wait a day.

Man, I would rep you again, but you know I can't, so "Thank you". Glad there are still some straight shooters around on this site. From what I can tell, there's a lot of misinformation floating around, probably what you guys call "Trolls", right? I was in a whole nother zone. Appreciated..

 

[panhead]

Man, I would rep you again, but you know I can't, so "Thank you". Glad there are still some straight shooters around on this sight. From what I can tell, there's a lot of misinformation floating around, probably what you guys call "Trolls", right? I was in a whole nother zone. Appreciated..

Dont sweat it bud,there still are quite a few good hydro guys around they just arent around lately.

Why are you running cal mag ? Are you running ro water or regular tap water ?

I do agree somethings off in your ratio but its still nothing to sweat,plants have an amazing ability to enhance the enviroment to what they need & your ph will level off i promise,just dont keep yanking it all the way back to 5.5,just try & watch it & only pull it back a bit,it will level off & the rate of climb will decrease.

Now to figure out whats causing it.

Im not familuar with your nutes & i dont have time right now to research them but heres a tip i learned when i 1st started,with a fresh water no nute rez start out with plain water,ph that water,add your micros & ph & see which way that nute pulls the ph,do the same with the other nutes checking the ph after every nute.

After checking one nute at a time you'll know which single nute pulls the ph which way,now you can control ph using nutes instead of up & down,i rarely use any up or down i just add whatever nute i need to pull the ph in line,water stays much more stabil as well.

Just be patient,as long as they are eating & look good most likely your good.

 

[panhead]

So does the 0.5 PH movement a day apply, or is that a myth also?

Nope,not a myth but also not a sign of real trouble,ya gotta remember that most numbers concerning hydro are best case scenario numbers,or middle of the road numbers,nothing is hard nailed,ive had a ph of like 7.4 before with no damagd,been busy as hell & no time to fuck with it,come back n look a few days later & its at 5.8 dead on.

Right now anything could be the culprit of the ph swing,its been a few years since i read all the brainy shit but to make a long story short something as simple as stressed plants can cause swings,water temps are another issue,some strains prefer an even water temp,if not the ph floats faster.

The main thing is to just be patient & only pull the ph back into range & not all the way to the extremes,it will level off within a few days.

With 300 ppm i take it you have little ones & not 12 inchers ?

 

[Micheal Myers]

My biggest one is 7 inches, the other 3 are about 5 or so. Got them up to 400 PPM now. I can see the good green coming in the tops, and they stayed @ 6.1 for most of today before popping up to 6.2 around 4. I actually noticed the plants had turned there leaves away from the light, and my ppm's started back up. I think 6.1 is my number for now, 6.2 and they're not liking the light, and it seems to be where they eat, so I'm gonna stay with it till it decides to move. Also, I'm using tap, and I like the nute PH technique you use, actually brought my levels up without using anything but nutes this evening. My log has alot less writing in it today for some reason also, appreciated. No CaMg+ either, that was before I changed the res. Here is a pic of one of my smaller ones.

 

[panhead]

Cool,if your plants like 6.1 let em ride,pretty soon they will want a nute better absorbed at a lower ph & like magic the ph will bring itself in line.

If your using city water no need for cal mag most times.

 

[Micheal Myers]

Cool,if your plants like 6.1 let em ride,pretty soon they will want a nute better absorbed at a lower ph & like magic the ph will bring itself in line.

If your using city water no need for cal mag most times.

Question, how large is the eating range of the plant. Or, when I find the max nute level for my plant/age, how far down do they eat before I lose the PH stability? Just looking for some kind of scale, or average.
In 7 hours, mine has gone from about 410 down to about 400, is this a good drop? Been sitting @ 6.1 since yesterday morning. Also, will it hurt to veg a little longer since I have been stressing them this whole time, definately have the space. Sorry, but I have a lot of questions....

 

[Micheal Myers]

Anyone with an answer? Giving rep for good info.