What's Will All The Religion Hatred?

[Hepheastus420]

are you seriously trying to say

a. only religous people love?
b. educated people can't love?

Why are you putting words in my mouth? I never said only religious people love nor did I ever say educated people can't love.
Now if you can actually pay attention to what I'm saying this time you would understand that I'm saying it's not fair to erase religion just because you don't believe in it. What I was saying is that having a religion can bring comfort to some people, so why take that comfort away?

 

[ginjawarrior]

Why are you putting words in my mouth? I never said only religious people love nor did I ever say educated people can't love.
Now if you can actually pay attention to what I'm saying this time you would understand that I'm saying it's not fair to erase religion just because you don't believe in it. What I was saying is that having a religion can bring comfort to some people, so why take that comfort away?

i want people educated to an extent where they can stand tall on their own

the loss of their comfort blanket is a side effect (albeit a highly desirable one)

 

[Hepheastus420]

Uncertainty is actually the position we are promoting at this point. We do not seek to cross out god, just the certainty in god which leads to religion.



This is a utilitarian argument appealing to final consequences. The problem is that it does nothing to justify mainstream religion of today. If we are simply using religion to develop love and social coherence, we can spend 5 minutes and come up with a religion far more useful than any of today, but you would know this religion to be fake. Following your logic, we would have to adhere to this religion even though we know it false, because of the ultimate good it brings.

I am not trying to justify mainstream religion, I have stated several times that I don't follow mainstream religion and that I just follow the good morals and teachings from the bible. I call myself a Christian because I follow Christ not because I give my money to some guy that preaches and tries to damn people to hell (which I don't). Please read my last post about the comfort to explain what I'm saying. And yes I suppose you could create a new religion that would fit your beliefs and I would not have a problem with that, because if I did have a problem with that I would be a hypocrite due to all the positive things I have said about following religion for the good morals they teach.

Sorry if I didn't understand your post I have like 3 different interpretations of what you mean in my head, ha.

 

[Hepheastus420]

i want people educated to an extent where they can stand tall on their own

the loss of their comfort blanket is a side effect (albeit a highly desirable one)

Who's to say religion doesn't educate people in it's self?
And you do not need to get rid of religion for people to stand on their own. To stand on your own is to follow what you believe is right. Now if someone truly believes in a religion because of it's teachings then they are following their own beliefs and standing up for what they believe. And please understand that I don't agree with people blindly following a religion out of fear of a negative after life, which sadly happens alot with today's mainstream religions.

 

[sso]

..i dont get how a higher being would require or even want, worship and ritual.

its a bit like a monty python sketch.. watching people go ramalamadingdong in front of a statue with a really serious face.

"oh great and wonderful spirit, please make sure i get that bigscreen tv"

..

actually the idea of god, makes little sense, (and ive met "god" in dreams lol)

some person created all this?

who created god? if god always existed, then cant everything just always have existed?

if god sprung out of nonexistence like the cow audhumla in the nordic religions (first came a really evil giant that was killed and turned into the universe)

isnt the void, the great nothing, really "god"? but its nothing?

so how can it be anything?

energy, cant be destroyed? yeah? so how can it be created? shouldnt it have always existed?

then why the need for a creator or god?

looks to me, that life (we and everything living)

Is the Creator. and it looks like it always existed, or its foundations at least.

 

[sso]

lol double post.

 

[Heisenberg]

Think about the many factual claims the bible makes that conflict with scientific knowledge. The virgin birth is a claim of biology. Creation of the universe is a claim of cosmology. Parting the red sea is a claim of physics. Is this really a responsible way to educate? You may think that these are trivial claims not meant to be taken literally, and maybe they are. What then does religion really educate us about? Family, morality, community, love of others.... all things we can attain without the need for factually erroneous baggage.

 

[Brazko]

peer pressure from the group hysteria?
inadequate tools for discerning bullshit?

lol, really!? Peer pressure from the acclaimed insane drives the sane able bodies to insanity as well!?

Could you give me some examples of what adequate tools they would need, since we can assume their Atheist parents failed in providing?

the numbers going the other way are not so substantial when you look at the numbers realizing their gods a lie and strt wanting proof.

Well, they aren't substantial at all.. The only numbers I do find substantial is that believers of one religion cross over to another religious belief. And 95% of the world population has some kind of belief in a god or life force..

Another personal observation I have noticed, and I emphasize personal, is that most Atheist Fundamentalist are spun from a Religious Fundamentalist background (JW and Catholicism) as an example. Switching from one extreme to the next, whereas it is almost seeded in rebellion towards their upbringing then it is to their resignment of simply not believing in gods. This is not true of the nature of all Atheist, just the deeply seeded Fundamentalist.

In my opinion that is..

 

[ginjawarrior]

lol, really!? Peer pressure from the acclaimed insane drives the sane able bodies to insanity as well!?

how else did it get started in first place?

Could you give me some examples of what adequate tools they would need, since we can assume their Atheist parents failed to provide them with?

a desire for evidence?
a good knowledge of human fallibility like conformation bias?

you never save everyone but you can limit the damage

Well, they aren't substantial at all.. The only numbers I do find substantial is that believers of one religion cross over to another religious belief. And 95% of the world population has some kind of belief in a god or life force..

Another personal observation I have noticed, and I emphasize personal, is that most Atheist Fundamentalist are spun from a Religious Fundamentalist background (JW and Catholicism) as an example. Switching from one extreme to the next, whereas it is almost seeded in rebellion towards their upbringing then it is to their resignment of simply not believing in gods. This is not true of the nature of all Atheist, just the deeply seeded Fundamentalist.

In my opinion that is..

look to europe the figures can be missleading.
in the uk alot of people identify with church of england as that was how they were brought up
yet a vast majority of them never go to church and they wouldn't be on a forum like this discussing their daily relationship with god cause they just dont care enough to conjure one up
i know that america is still fairly far from that, and that a vast amount of the rest of the world have no idea of their place in the universe but again educations the key

 

[Hepheastus420]

Think about the many factual claims the bible makes that conflict with scientific knowledge. The virgin birth is a claim of biology. Creation of the universe is a claim of cosmology. Parting the red sea is a claim of physics. Is this really a responsible way to educate? You may think that these are trivial claims not meant to be taken literally, and maybe they are. What then does religion really educate us about? Family, morality, community, love of others.... all things we can attain without the need for factually erroneous baggage.

Yeah you're right but some people just learn differently than others and educate them selves differently.

 

[ginjawarrior]

Yeah you're right but some people just learn differently than others and educate them selves differently.

no they are taught differently huge difference


you trying to make the claim some element of choice in there.
at this age?

 

[Hepheastus420]

no they are taught differently huge difference

Yeah those are two different words so good job on noticing that.
And everyone has free will, so it is up to them to decide if they want to be taught a religion or not.

 

[ginjawarrior]

no they are taught differently huge difference


you trying to make the claim some element of choice in there.
at this age?

sorry for late edit you said choice

Yeah those are two different words so good job on noticing that.
And everyone has free will, so it is up to them to decide if they want to be taught a religion or not.

 

[Hepheastus420]

sorry for late edit you said choice

If you don't Believe in religion this should not bother you.
Anyway as the child grows he will learn to decide what to believe and what not to believe. I do admit that this is an influence probably from the parents but our parents influence us on countless things and we disagree with them on countless things, so the child cam disagree with religion and choose to not follow it when he grows.

 

[Brazko]

how else did it get started in first place?
a desire for evidence?
a good knowledge of human fallibility like conformation bias?

you never save everyone but you can limit the damage

I can understand the traps to confirmation bias as being a persuasive factor, but for the most part I think it would fall to them being grounded in evidential claims. As it would seem to be inherit in their upbringing. As the nature of all things around them would certainly have been explained through evidential reasoning, and it would be second nature for them to go about the rest of their lives with that kind of mindset.

But to all of a sudden give it up for something that has never been entrenched into their thinking or forced upon them, to now embark on another path because of accumulated experiences. And I'm assuming it was a choice of collective experiences that geared their persuasion, as opposed to having a single experience shatter all that was instilled as a child. As it would've had to been an extraordinary event to do so.

This is how it could all start. I would think it would be falling to the innate human condition foremost, opposed to falling to peer pressure. And as I said before, it doesn't necessarily mean they will begin to believe in the Abrahamic God, but still move towards a belief in a higher self, state of being, life force etc...

look to europe the figures can be missleading.
in the uk alot of people identify with church of england as that was how they were brought up
yet a vast majority of them never go to church and they wouldn't be on a forum like this discussing their daily relationship with god cause they just dont care enough to conjure one up
i know that america is still fairly far from that, and that a vast amount of the rest of the world have no idea of their place in the universe but again educations the key

I agree that the numbers would and can be higher across the board, even more so in the U.S. Not going to church is one thing, but not believing in God is taboo and frowned upon. But more people are coming forward with their Atheistic viewpoints as the taboo of it is lifted. And I'm sure that number would take a notable hike if the stigma behind it was removed. A notable hike but still insignificant to the sum total of those that move belief in God/gods to acknowledgment of a spiritual/life force, with no desire to claim Atheism.

 

[RawBudzski]

there is a new movie out called Red State. I think you all would enjoy it, about religious nut jobs. But they have mad weapons.<3

 

[ginjawarrior]

If you don't Believe in religion this should not bother you.

child abuse of any kind bothers me

Anyway as the child grows he will learn to decide what to believe and what not to believe. I do admit that this is an influence probably from the parents but our parents influence us on countless things and we disagree with them on countless things, so the child cam disagree with religion and choose to not follow it when he grows.

https://www.rollitup.org/members/ginjawarrior-163574.htmlyour trying yet again to claim the child has any choice in what he learns.

as an adult i can choose what to learn. i can choose a subject at college or university to learn. hell i originally found this site with intention of learning.

a child does not have the choice of his lessons or tutor he is Taught. that is the case till adulthood. now you chuck in home schooled and closed communities and that persons lesson are very limited

your claim of free will is dishonestly false

one day i hope you wake up and truely realise exactly whats been done to you....

 

[Hepheastus420]

child abuse of any kind bothers me
https://www.rollitup.org/members/ginjawarrior-163574.htmlyour trying yet again to claim the child has any choice in what he learns.

as an adult i can choose what to learn. i can choose a subject at college or university to learn. hell i originally found this site with intention of learning.

a child does not have the choice of his lessons or tutor he is Taught. that is the case till adulthood. now you chuck in home schooled and closed communities and that persons lesson are very limited

your claim of free will is dishonestly false

one day i hope you wake up and truely realise exactly whats been done to you....

My parents never taught me religion, I have never been baptized, and I have only been to church like once so nothing has been done to me that I don't agree with. And a religious person can go to college and choose what subjects he/she wants to take.

 

[ginjawarrior]

I agree that the numbers would and can be higher across the board, even more so in the U.S. Not going to church is one thing, but not believing in God is taboo and frowned upon. But more people are coming forward with their Atheistic viewpoints as the taboo of it is lifted. And I'm sure that number would take a notable hike if the stigma behind it was removed. A notable hike but still insignificant to the sum total of those that move belief in God/gods to acknowledgment of a spiritual/life force, with no desire to claim Atheism.

its a case of one generation at a time. 50/60years ago everyone went to church. i know my daughters generation is less religous than mine as is mine from parents.
one day soon there will be whole streets, neighbourhoods towns even. where children can listen to just proper fairytales for bedtime

 

[Hepheastus420]

there is a new movie out called Red State. I think you all would enjoy it, about religious nut jobs. But they have mad weapons.<3

Noooo not just Nutjobs but religious nutjobs.

Get what I'm saying? Anybody can be a nutjob.
I'm pretty sure there's a shit load of athiest nutjobs but you don't call them athiest nutjobs just nutjobs. So why discriminate against religious people?
Sorry to turn into a nutjob on you Budzski.