How much is Obama's job plan going to cost?
- Thread starter Bonzi Lighthouse
- Start date
hazyintentions
Well-Known Member
and seriously, you are all arguing about something that has not been announced, and you have no idea what will be in it?
COOL
Mr Neutron
Well-Known Member
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-06/obama-said-to-plan-more-than-300-billion-for-jobs-to-boost-u-s-economy.html
If $800 billion wasn't enough the last time, how is $300 billion going to help? What is he going to do, bail out Solyndra?
If $800 billion wasn't enough the last time, how is $300 billion going to help? What is he going to do, bail out Solyndra?
hazyintentions
Well-Known Member
Is it me or do you sense another debt ceiling debate looming in the near future????
Okay mame, this is your economics test. Keynesian at work. Will it work?
You can say whatever you'd like to that, only time will tell. I'm curious to say how this fails.
dukeanthony
New Member
Mr Neutron
Well-Known Member
OK, IF those figures are accurate, that brings up 2 questions:
1) If $300 billion didn't work, how is another $300 billion going to help?
2) If the stimulus called for $800 billion and they've only spent $300 billion... what are they waiting for... 50% unemployment?
hazyintentions
Well-Known Member
Your post is self defeating
$310,160 per job created, yeah government efficiency at it's best.
VTXDave
Well-Known Member
My my....How polarized we've all become. Seamaiden and I are now running a beautiful 12,000watt Solar Array with energy efficient upgrades to insulation air conditioning/heating compliments of Stimulus funds....and at 0% interest. Sure, we'll pay on the loan, but we will never have to pay another PG&E bill for as long as we live here (and we intend on making this house out last home).
Furthermore, the crew that came out and did the initial inspection was comprised primarily of former SureWest employees who were laid off as a result of the housing collapse. As of today, they have more work than they can ask for and will hire more people. The contractor who performed the installation hired additional crews to accommodate the additional workload.
Furthermore, the crew that came out and did the initial inspection was comprised primarily of former SureWest employees who were laid off as a result of the housing collapse. As of today, they have more work than they can ask for and will hire more people. The contractor who performed the installation hired additional crews to accommodate the additional workload.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
are you figuring in the tax breaks given to citizens and tax incentives given to wise investors like dave (see below) in that number?
very wise investment. my mom's best friend from when we used to live back east went solar, too (thanks to the ARRA). he now gets paid instead of paying every month for electric. i'd call it a win win, less dependence on polluting technologies, more independence, more money in the pocket.
mame
Well-Known Member
Dont kid yourself, 300B is not nearly enough... Keynesianism at work? Barely. I've made it clear on these boards of my position - at least a Trillion is needed or this is all just a waste of time.
Worst part is, if Obama goes with another inadequate stimulus and it doesn't do the job (because it's not large enough) the naysayers will just take it as "evidence" that stimulus doesn't work and more will be politically impossible. I really hope there's something more to this than just $300B...
hazyintentions
Well-Known Member
I was expecting that, it's never enough, where should we pull this money from? Borrow more counterfeited money for the FED?
If nothing comes of his jobs plan, as VTXdave said, he's toast.
To UB, no I did not calculate tax breaks in, do you think it's going to subtract/add in to take away from my point?
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
considering how much went to tax breaks, incentives, and other ventures (like turning the doe into a huge venture capital fund for advancing sustainable energy and leveraging private sector dollars, among many) i would say it would make your figure look a lot less bloated.
just my opinion though. your mileage may vary.
hazyintentions
Well-Known Member
I only used the link posted and divided "dollars recieved" by "jobs" if I had used "dollars rewarded" my number would be closer to 500k so maybe those incentives were already accounted for under "dollars received".
Figure like these are like trying to forecast a tornado..
mame
Well-Known Member
There is such a thing as enough spending, and it's based on actual data... The $800 Billion stimulus was known to be too small by most Keynesians (most advocated for 1.2-1.5T of stimulus, mostly in aid to local governments and infrastructure) before it was even passed, for example. What Obama seems to be doing is making a political calculation, "how big of a stimulus can I push for without committing political suicide?" - the problem is, pushing an inadequate stimulus could potentially be turned against him if it doesn't work well enough... And it wont, because it isn't large enough - so he may be committing political suicide anyway.
interest rates are at historic lows BTW, we have room to borrow now... I'm not advocating for fiscal irresponsibility either, as closing the output gap is the single most important thing for our fiscal outlook even if it's achieved through more spending. Once full employment is reached we can turn our attention to meaningful reforms and long term austerity in a responsible manner, but until then the rest is self defeating.
Mr Neutron
Well-Known Member
So what is the point?
mame
Well-Known Member
I'd guess he thinks doing something is better than nothing, which is true as any stimulus is going to help to some extent (see: 3 million saved/created jobs via the 800B stimulus... it did help, just not enough...). The problem seems to be that a weak stimulus will hurt his ability to seek more stimulus in the future, if he even remains in office.
Mr Neutron
Well-Known Member
So he is just "rolling the dice" at this point and hoping that things will change? Bernanke hasn't got a clue. Geithner has been quiet.
What was that old saying about repeating the same actions and expecting different results?