r0m30s first grow, HP Aero cabinet
- Thread starter r0m30
- Start date
Well they have been in the flower chamber for 4 days now. I noticed what I thought was nute burn and after some panicking I blew the accumulator back into the res and diluted from 850 (@ .5) down to 550 (@ .5) refilled the res and reduced the spray time to .2s. I think they are still adjusting, while they have put on some roots the tops are pretty much the same size as when they went in. If you look at the two of them it's hard to believe that they are supposed to be the same strain. The shorter one has much shorter inter-nodal length and is generally a little droopy. The other is more lanky and its not near as unhappy with its new digs.
The cloner has been cycling at 15s/2:45 since Thursday. They have perked up and arent looking wilted like they did right after I cut them. No roots yet
Also if your camera has a custom white balance feature you should figure it out and use it for pictures under the lights, it gives you much truer colors.
The cloner has been cycling at 15s/2:45 since Thursday. They have perked up and arent looking wilted like they did right after I cut them. No roots yet
Also if your camera has a custom white balance feature you should figure it out and use it for pictures under the lights, it gives you much truer colors.
boodadood
Active Member
you better believe it brother...that shit looks like night n day...i cant believe the root mass vs the veg mass on top either...you can clearly see where her (their) priorities are...unreal...mabye some LST would keep that lanky bitch in line n let her open up?!?!
i use a color temp of around 5-7K for pics under HPS, depending on the shot...you have to get rid of the red anyway you can
Yes, they are putting on lots more root mass right now but they are starting to grow on the top now, about 1/2" today.
I don't really know what the color temp is for this led light but the custom white balance seems to work OK. I think it might be a little heavy on the green but the PVC and walls are white and the JG tubing is green so it's a lot closer.
Ive been trying to cut back on the spray time as well as the PPM to stop the nute burn Ive been seeing. The girl on the left just isnt a happy camper. On Thursday she flopped over when I was at .15s. She just didnt have enough root mass to feed herself. I misted her, wet the rockwool she is in and increase the mist time to .2s and she perked up a little but shes still not happy. Today when I checked her there was a musty compost smell in the chamber, not good 
. The girl on the left is growing and filling out. I tried to femm her not sure how well I did but we shall see.
The cloner is showing progress, two of the three cuttings are showing root nubs and will probably sprout. I think the third is a lost soul. Their progress pretty much mimics how they reacted when first cut.
I really didnt pay much attention to where I cut these from. Where should they be cut from, top, middle, bottom? Anyway here are a few pictures.
. The girl on the left is growing and filling out. I tried to femm her not sure how well I did but we shall see. The cloner is showing progress, two of the three cuttings are showing root nubs and will probably sprout. I think the third is a lost soul. Their progress pretty much mimics how they reacted when first cut.
I really didnt pay much attention to where I cut these from. Where should they be cut from, top, middle, bottom? Anyway here are a few pictures.
Yea, I didn't give them near enough light for the first three weeks (see post 17) so they aren't as well developed as they should be. I'm thinking about a 90W UFO for the clone/veg chamber but haven't really seen one that I like since the Haight 90W won't fit in the chamber.
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Could be but not necessarily. Roots might not be getting wet enough. But in lpa, the roots are being constantly exposed to more nutes than the plant can consume. The good news is all you need is an Aquatec 8800 High Pressure Pump a deep cycle timer (Sentinel MDT-1 and an in line dmFit in line filter to significantly improve your feeding schedule
Mike Young
Well-Known Member
I believe r0m has 2 aquatecs in his cabinet. Damn pet, you Fallin asleep at the wheel? =D
I'm running at 80PSI. I use a 6800 to charge my accumulator, I didn't go with the 8800 because the flow of the 6800 charges the accumulator in about three minutes. Change the 8800 to a 6800 and you have my cloner setup. I believe I'm the one who told you the part numbers and suppliers for the DMFit filters.
Yep, one for the flower chamber and one for the cloner. I really like that they are so quiet.
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
I think I am replying to too many hpa threads. lol
So you have a really deep cycle timer and accum. Reaching ideal w/d cycle is a delicate dance, a good part of which is based on chamber volume. HPA requires a lot more volume than one would think.
Everything I've read says W/D should be ~ 1:1- ie, one second per one minute, but in the beginning probably 1:~0.5. Now considering you are using < one second short wet cycles you have to do a math adjustment.
Funky Smell: I found even using regular rw starter cubes that they held too much moisture (root rot resulted), so I experimented and cut them in half. I put the half cubes in a small net pot which goes into 1.5" PVC coupler, but I do not push the cube to the bottom. I have ~ 0.5" air gap. I tried a layer of small hydroton between, which worked, however, this time I tried it without the hydroton and I have lots of roots popping out the bottom of the half-cubes, but they haven't yet cleared the net pot. To be safe, I am hand watering until they clear the net pot.
I am very happy with the dmFit. I am having a bit of a microbe colonization issue. Cleaning the filter is now eazy-peazy. The microbes stopped clogging the filter when I added some lava rock into the rez (in a painters filter), but I took the filter out to use it around a lp pump in a F&D recirculating system A/B test that I started Saturday afternoon. I find recir is fine until I flip to flower and switch nutes.
Due to running too short wet cycles, I had so stunted my plants that one was near death. I put it in a soil-less mix under my UFO in another room, and within a week it looks like a normal plant with nice big leaves whereas everything in my hpa looks like bonsais. So, I decided to do an A/B test with new seeds ~ 6 second: 3 minute W/Dcycles v F&D with the bonzais. The new babies are are doing well, and the bonsais' are doing amazingly well after 24 hours.
So you have a really deep cycle timer and accum. Reaching ideal w/d cycle is a delicate dance, a good part of which is based on chamber volume. HPA requires a lot more volume than one would think.
Everything I've read says W/D should be ~ 1:1- ie, one second per one minute, but in the beginning probably 1:~0.5. Now considering you are using < one second short wet cycles you have to do a math adjustment.
Funky Smell: I found even using regular rw starter cubes that they held too much moisture (root rot resulted), so I experimented and cut them in half. I put the half cubes in a small net pot which goes into 1.5" PVC coupler, but I do not push the cube to the bottom. I have ~ 0.5" air gap. I tried a layer of small hydroton between, which worked, however, this time I tried it without the hydroton and I have lots of roots popping out the bottom of the half-cubes, but they haven't yet cleared the net pot. To be safe, I am hand watering until they clear the net pot.
I am very happy with the dmFit. I am having a bit of a microbe colonization issue. Cleaning the filter is now eazy-peazy. The microbes stopped clogging the filter when I added some lava rock into the rez (in a painters filter), but I took the filter out to use it around a lp pump in a F&D recirculating system A/B test that I started Saturday afternoon. I find recir is fine until I flip to flower and switch nutes.
Due to running too short wet cycles, I had so stunted my plants that one was near death. I put it in a soil-less mix under my UFO in another room, and within a week it looks like a normal plant with nice big leaves whereas everything in my hpa looks like bonsais. So, I decided to do an A/B test with new seeds ~ 6 second: 3 minute W/Dcycles v F&D with the bonzais. The new babies are are doing well, and the bonsais' are doing amazingly well after 24 hours.
We all are......
It certainly is a dance, still learning the steps. I can't wrap my head around the idea of a standard cycle/ratio. Everyone's setup is different enough that it seems unlikely that it is possible to me. I'm playing with the cycle again now that I found my issue with the girl who wasn't doing well. I'm at .1s/2.5min right now, the smaller girl may not have enough root mass to take that short of a cycle.
These were clones I purchased from someone on craigslist they were in 2x2 rockwool cubes. I'm hoping to have my own areo clones on the next cycle and run without any medium, just a net cup and neoprene insert. We'll see how that works out.
Good luck with the test.
I found out why the girl on the left was so unhappy, one of the misters in that bucket had clogged. Once the mister was replaced she is did much better putting on some new root growth and not looking wilted. Unfortunately I think the stress has been too much for her.Its unlikely she will catch up with the other girl before I need to flip to keep from overgrowing the cabinet. It looks like Im down to a single plant for this grow.
I started to tuck the remaining girl once she reached 4 above the screen. Now I have a little more time to wait for the flip so she can fill the screen by herself. Ive also reduced the mist cycle to .1s/2.5m
Heres the remaining girl:
The cloner results have been mixed, one of the three cuttings gave up the ghost. The other two sprouted roots so I added ¼ strength nuts and lowered the light. I think the light was to close and burned them. I raised the light and am hoping for the best.
I started to tuck the remaining girl once she reached 4 above the screen. Now I have a little more time to wait for the flip so she can fill the screen by herself. Ive also reduced the mist cycle to .1s/2.5m
Heres the remaining girl:
The cloner results have been mixed, one of the three cuttings gave up the ghost. The other two sprouted roots so I added ¼ strength nuts and lowered the light. I think the light was to close and burned them. I raised the light and am hoping for the best.
Ive been busy this week. I cut back the mist time to .05s/2.5 minutes and once I did that I was seeing more tip burn on the lower leaves so I reduced the mute strength to 350ppm (@.5). The roots still seemed to be wetter than they needed to be with some droplets forming. I thought about reprogramming the timer to reduce the intervals (which I eventually did) but I think Im pretty close to the mechanical limits of my components. That led me to think about the system pressure. If I reduced the pressure I would reduce the amount of water delivered. So my first thought was this will be easy to test (I should have known I was in trouble then). I went to adjust the pressure regulator down. No matter what I did it didnt change the pressure to the misters at all. I removed and disassembled the pressure regulator and the plate didnt move at all so I opened it up removed the all of the pieces and reassembled it, it looked like it was working as I slowly dialed the pressure up but at about 40 PSI it stopped letting the pressure rise as I turned the adjustment knob, finally it let water through at 75-80 PSI but nothing in between. Not sure what to think, it is marked as 0-125PSI so I received the correct part but it isnt working well at all. Anyway onward I plunged. I adjusted the accumulator pre-charge and the pressure switch for a 70-90 accumulator charge. The pressure regulator is reducing the 90 to 75PSI. Thats not really where I want it but it will do for now. I let it run overnight and now the roots seem a little dry to me so I reprogrammed the timer and Im running a cycle of .075s/2m and will keep an eye on it. This has made for a lot less mist overrun and my water usage is much more in line with the flow calculations.
So here she is still alive after another week of noob abuse. fI still havent figured out this new camera yet so the colors are pretty bad.
The cloner has been less than an overwhelming success. Only one clone is still alive. Ive been working her up to full strength nutes and have reduced the mist timing to 5s/3m. I have a few things that I think I have learned for my next round of tests. Im going to trim the net pots some more so that the stem is hanging free in the mist with no obstructions. Im going to take the cuttings from the lower part of the plant as they should be a little more established. I think Im going to break down and buy a UFO for the cloner too, the surviving clone is really lanky, if you look at the surviving lady in the flower chamber she has spent a lot of time and energy filling in and the nodal spacing on her new growth is really close together. Starting them under better light should eliminate a lot of that time. It those changes work out then Ill see if a rooting compound makes an appreciable difference.
So here she is still alive after another week of noob abuse. fI still havent figured out this new camera yet so the colors are pretty bad.
The cloner has been less than an overwhelming success. Only one clone is still alive. Ive been working her up to full strength nutes and have reduced the mist timing to 5s/3m. I have a few things that I think I have learned for my next round of tests. Im going to trim the net pots some more so that the stem is hanging free in the mist with no obstructions. Im going to take the cuttings from the lower part of the plant as they should be a little more established. I think Im going to break down and buy a UFO for the cloner too, the surviving clone is really lanky, if you look at the surviving lady in the flower chamber she has spent a lot of time and energy filling in and the nodal spacing on her new growth is really close together. Starting them under better light should eliminate a lot of that time. It those changes work out then Ill see if a rooting compound makes an appreciable difference.
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
Many free photo editing programs allow you to adjust for colored lighting. Just google search it, I had the answer once beforee, but it came so easy I didn't bother to save the link to the program...
Also- Never underestimate the funk killing power of running a constant low level of h202...
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
I'll say this for everyone's benefit. The wet/dry time has nothing to do with a certain time, but with a certain saturation/wetness level. This will be different for everyone's setup, including chamber size and plant growth phase. After all the years you've been at this I figured you might understand by now, cuz this is the real nitty gritty of what makes HPA, well- HPA...
foresakenlion
Active Member
Awesome dude, doing nice.
doing nice.foresakenlion
Active Member
Mel Franks Cannabis targets for strong light equal exactly the Lucas Formula, using GH, or other brands, the target is NPK Mg 100-100-200-60. You could use the program Hydrobuddy to calculate your own formula using your own source ingredients to this exact target.
Seems nutrient control is a nightmare in aero testing, with the Lucas Formula you'd have a baseline to work w/ and that would eliminate one of your x factors, even if it didn't optimize growth, you can always do that later after you have other parameters taking into account.
And ultimately from what I've read you need a Brix meter to monitor your plants sugar levels, then you can custom tailor your EC to the maximum the strain likes in flowering, though it takes time and experience with different strains to gain knowledge of their lights, sometimes their is green house data available when you're lucky you can nail exactly.
Another thing to consider in Aero is EC the same in Hydro and Aero because of the absorption ease? I would say try to aim for 1/4th EC, not PPM's if the PPM's are low but the EC is still high this could damage the plant.
Seems nutrient control is a nightmare in aero testing, with the Lucas Formula you'd have a baseline to work w/ and that would eliminate one of your x factors, even if it didn't optimize growth, you can always do that later after you have other parameters taking into account.
And ultimately from what I've read you need a Brix meter to monitor your plants sugar levels, then you can custom tailor your EC to the maximum the strain likes in flowering, though it takes time and experience with different strains to gain knowledge of their lights, sometimes their is green house data available when you're lucky you can nail exactly.
Another thing to consider in Aero is EC the same in Hydro and Aero because of the absorption ease? I would say try to aim for 1/4th EC, not PPM's if the PPM's are low but the EC is still high this could damage the plant.
Let's not get into an argument about Lucas here. Every tissue analysis I've seen says Lucas is high on P but it works for a LOT of growers. That makes it as good a starting point as anything, and probably better than the manufactures regiment in a lot of cases.
I hope I don't have to go there. If you don't limit yourself to the big hydro fertilizer companies you should be able to find something that works without the huge price tag.
Yes, I'm having issues dialing in the nutrients. I think I may have started with to low N but at this point I'm still trying to figure it out (AKA guessing
)I've found that simply touching the leaves at various points (top, middle, bottom) tells me if she is happy or not.
Not sure what you're getting at here? A PPM meter just uses a linear conversion from EC to display "PPM"
My first attempt at cloning had 1 out of three live. The surviving clone would have been ready to move into the flower chamber in about three weeks. Thats an acceptable time frame but the success rate needs a lot of work.
The clone had hit bottom several days ago and was spreading out along the bottom of the bucket. I installed a root barrier but the roots went around the retaining ring in search of the water. They didnt penetrate the weed cloth so at least that is encouraging. I dont really want to use some type of adhesive to install the root barrier but it may be required. Well see how the barrier holds up in the flower buckets.
Part Duex, shock and awe.
I think I have learned a few things from my first attempt. The clones have always looked stretchy so the light has been upgraded (again) to a 90W UFO. The clone that made it had its stem out past the net cup and was getting unobstructed mist so I trimmed up the net cup some more to allow the stems to get full mist exposure.
I asked several people about aero cloning. I decided to try a rooting hormone. I found a non grow shop hormone at OSH that was only 3.99 for 2 oz dry. I got it home and the fine print said it was not for food crops so I went to the grow shop and bought a 100ml bottle of clonex. When I read the directions it also had the non food crop warning and the same active ingredient. WTF? Goggling the hormone brings up hits that have the EPA saying is can be used on food crops, as a pesticide?? I dont know what to think but Im pretty sure any clones I buy have been in Clonex or something of the same sort so Im going to give it a shot.
The Green Light rooting hormone is a powder and contains .1% indole butic acid and the Clonex contains 3g liter. A little math tells me that there is almost 20 times the active ingredient in the Green Light, gotta love the grow industry.
I also got some advice on cutting and Atomizer said he uses rockwool cubes in the net cup to keep moisture next to the new roots so they dont head straight for the bottom of the cloner.
Im running a side by side this time. The cloner is filled with a gallon of 5.9 PH RO water that I have added 2ml of clonex and 4 drops of superthrive. Two of the clones are in the trimmed net cups with the stem fully exposed to the mist. The other two clones are have PHed rockwool cubes in the net cup surrounding the stem. All of the clones were dipped in the clonex before I put them in the cloner. We will see how this round goes.
The clone had hit bottom several days ago and was spreading out along the bottom of the bucket. I installed a root barrier but the roots went around the retaining ring in search of the water. They didnt penetrate the weed cloth so at least that is encouraging. I dont really want to use some type of adhesive to install the root barrier but it may be required. Well see how the barrier holds up in the flower buckets.
Part Duex, shock and awe.
I think I have learned a few things from my first attempt. The clones have always looked stretchy so the light has been upgraded (again) to a 90W UFO. The clone that made it had its stem out past the net cup and was getting unobstructed mist so I trimmed up the net cup some more to allow the stems to get full mist exposure.
I asked several people about aero cloning. I decided to try a rooting hormone. I found a non grow shop hormone at OSH that was only 3.99 for 2 oz dry. I got it home and the fine print said it was not for food crops
so I went to the grow shop and bought a 100ml bottle of clonex. When I read the directions it also had the non food crop warning and the same active ingredient. WTF? Goggling the hormone brings up hits that have the EPA saying is can be used on food crops, as a pesticide?? I dont know what to think but Im pretty sure any clones I buy have been in Clonex or something of the same sort so Im going to give it a shot.The Green Light rooting hormone is a powder and contains .1% indole butic acid and the Clonex contains 3g liter. A little math tells me that there is almost 20 times the active ingredient in the Green Light, gotta love the grow industry.
I also got some advice on cutting and Atomizer said he uses rockwool cubes in the net cup to keep moisture next to the new roots so they dont head straight for the bottom of the cloner.
Im running a side by side this time. The cloner is filled with a gallon of 5.9 PH RO water that I have added 2ml of clonex and 4 drops of superthrive. Two of the clones are in the trimmed net cups with the stem fully exposed to the mist. The other two clones are have PHed rockwool cubes in the net cup surrounding the stem. All of the clones were dipped in the clonex before I put them in the cloner. We will see how this round goes.