ATTN: U.S. Seed Buyers

[Dats]

And if you do sell some of your crop for god sake dont keep a ledger lol.

 

[Manny Ramirez]

And if you do sell some of your crop for god sake dont keep a ledger lol.

yea...no doubt

stupid is as stupid does

 

[Johnnyorganic]

1. Never let the po-pos in your house unless they have a warrant. If the po-pos had enough cause for a judge to issue a warrant, they would have gotten one. When you allow the cops in your house without a warrant, you effectively waive your Fourth Amendment protection and any possible exclusion of evidence because of improper procedure. The cops could have found a basement full of plants, but a significant error in the warrant could make it all inadmissible.

2. When the cops want you to cooperate, they'll influence you by lying, cheating, threatening to put your wife in prison, or whatever else it takes in order to get that bust. The only ones who will make you a deal that you can trust is the prosecuting attorney -- he or she has the discretion of whether or not to charge.

3. Don't say a goddamned thing to the cops or to a prosecutor, magistrate, or judge until you have spoken with a lawyer. Keep enough money in savings so that you can afford a good one. If that's not possible, mortgage your house, place a lien on your car, and basically do whatever it takes to hire your own counsel and to not be dependent on public defenders (I know a few PDs -- they are overworked and underpaid and settle more cases than perhaps they should).

From the story, it appears as though the couple was not arrested, and, in fact, your Miranda protection does not begin until you are in custody (not necessarily charged). If the couple hadn't cooperated with the po-pos, they most likely would have had to wait outside with the cops until the cops got the warrant and would then have been arrested if they had not "come clean." They would have then had to post bond to go back home. However, they would be on much stronger footing because they would not have waived their Fourth and Fifth Amendment protections.

Every word of the conversation with the cops and every plant and piece of growing equipment is now admissible in court. This would not have been the case if the couple insisted on invoking their constitutional protections.

Thank you.

This case demonstrates the dangers involved in our hobby. The only two things you should ever say to a cop is "Am I free to go?" and "May I call my attorney?"

Under the same circumstances I would probably not have answered the door. But I'm sort of paranoid. If I don't recognize the visitor, I don't answer the door. You are not compelled to open the door unless the coppers have a signed warrant or probable cause.

 

[RCutshawl]

OK let me say this because it seems that some people are missing the point. The point is NOT what happened when the Po Po arrived OR how to keep the PO PO out. It is the fact that...

THEY ARRIVED FROM SEIZED SEEDS BY CUSTOMS. OK. Not what happened and how to keep the po po out. CUSTOMS DID NOT JUST SEND A LETTER. They sent police to these peoples house.

That means that in some cases, they do not just send you a nice little letter. There are plenty of threads on how to keep the police out. Please don't start listing them here. This is not what this thread is about.

This thread is a WARNING to people buying seeds in their real name to their grow address.

Mind you, they had 19 plants growing at different stages. So chances are it was not a major grow op with them ordering hundreds of seeds.

I know, I know, and if you're going to shoot someone, don't be seen walking down Main St. twirling the gun afterwards. This is common sense. However, everyone who gets busted gets busted because of carelessness to one degree or another.

I would strongly encourage people here not to have seeds shipped to them from overseas at all, whether you have them sent to a "friend's house" or a "clean p.o. box" or "at work" unless you're really cloak-and-daggering it. I would, however, love to defend a client who was busted due to a warrant issued with "pot seeds in an envelope addressed to suspect" as the sole justification, and I'm not even a criminal defense attorney. If the warrant's no good, all fruits of the search are inadmissible (unless you have a WMD in your closet).

If you're worried about being caught, DO NOT ORDER SEEDS AT ALL. If you do, the authorities will merely have you on their radar and will pursue other avenues to bust you -- elec. bill, surveillance, etc.. If you do get busted, it will be for something much more than receiving pot seeds from overseas (dealing, for instance). When the cops show up, do not do what the couple in the story did. Having the seeds shipped to their grow location, while stupid, was the least of their errors. Come on, they kept a ledger?!?

The cops had nothing before they knocked on the door. They should have had nothing admissible as they left. The couple gift-wrapped and delivered an ironclad case against themselves to the authorities.

 

[Johnnyorganic]

For those of us who have ordered seeds and not had a problem: In all likelihood we are safe b/c if the authorities detected the seeds we would have been notified of their seizure. However, this is a good point about name and address veracity when ordering. How would this be done exactly? Whichever address used would be subject to compromise. Will a seed bank send to a different name than the addressee?

I must say that twice have I ordered with a credit card with my name and address. I probably will do so again. The good seed banks camoflage the seeds into legitimate-appearing packages so that the chance of seizure is slim.

 

[Tanuvan]

Good point RCutshawl. I have heard that they don't need a warrant if they can "smell" weed coming from the windows/doors. Apparently something about evidence can be destroyed before a warrant is issued.

I'm not quite sure how that works though.

 

[panhead]

I hope nobody is taking the news report literaly or word for word,the "ledger" they speak of could very well of been a growers journal they kept to help them with the grow,the growers also could of kept track of simple non sales related costs for nutes,soil & power in their journal in order to make sure the cost of the grow did not become excessive.

Cops will call journals whatever the fuk they like as long as it makes them look smart & you like an asshole scumbag.

A Ledger,thee is no fukin way on earth that any dealer kept a written ledger of sales,i refuse to believe that.

 

[boooky]

Dont sell it...Simple, it sucks but its true. They look for sellers not personal growers. They look for people making money without paying taxes not people getting high.

 

[Miracle Smoke]

This is why swim decided not to grow indoors too risky, and not give out too much information.

Grow outside, give nutrients & decent soil as you would indoors and you would get just as potent if not more and yield a hell ova lot bigger plant.

 

[LoudBlunts]

1. Never let the po-pos in your house unless they have a warrant. If the po-pos had enough cause for a judge to issue a warrant, they would have gotten one. When you allow the cops in your house without a warrant, you effectively waive your Fourth Amendment protection and any possible exclusion of evidence because of improper procedure. The cops could have found a basement full of plants, but a significant error in the warrant could make it all inadmissible.

2. When the cops want you to cooperate, they'll influence you by lying, cheating, threatening to put your wife in prison, or whatever else it takes in order to get that bust. The only ones who will make you a deal that you can trust is the prosecuting attorney -- he or she has the discretion of whether or not to charge.

3. Don't say a goddamned thing to the cops or to a prosecutor, magistrate, or judge until you have spoken with a lawyer. Keep enough money in savings so that you can afford a good one. If that's not possible, mortgage your house, place a lien on your car, and basically do whatever it takes to hire your own counsel and to not be dependent on public defenders (I know a few PDs -- they are overworked and underpaid and settle more cases than perhaps they should).

From the story, it appears as though the couple was not arrested, and, in fact, your Miranda protection does not begin until you are in custody (not necessarily charged). If the couple hadn't cooperated with the po-pos, they most likely would have had to wait outside with the cops until the cops got the warrant and would then have been arrested if they had not "come clean." They would have then had to post bond to go back home. However, they would be on much stronger footing because they would not have waived their Fourth and Fifth Amendment protections.

Every word of the conversation with the cops and every plant and piece of growing equipment is now admissible in court. This would not have been the case if the couple insisted on invoking their constitutional protections.

and

I know, I know, and if you're going to shoot someone, don't be seen walking down Main St. twirling the gun afterwards. This is common sense. However, everyone who gets busted gets busted because of carelessness to one degree or another.

I would strongly encourage people here not to have seeds shipped to them from overseas at all, whether you have them sent to a "friend's house" or a "clean p.o. box" or "at work" unless you're really cloak-and-daggering it. I would, however, love to defend a client who was busted due to a warrant issued with "pot seeds in an envelope addressed to suspect" as the sole justification, and I'm not even a criminal defense attorney. If the warrant's no good, all fruits of the search are inadmissible (unless you have a WMD in your closet).

If you're worried about being caught, DO NOT ORDER SEEDS AT ALL. If you do, the authorities will merely have you on their radar and will pursue other avenues to bust you -- elec. bill, surveillance, etc.. If you do get busted, it will be for something much more than receiving pot seeds from overseas (dealing, for instance). When the cops show up, do not do what the couple in the story did. Having the seeds shipped to their grow location, while stupid, was the least of their errors. Come on, they kept a ledger?!?

The cops had nothing before they knocked on the door. They should have had nothing admissible as they left. The couple gift-wrapped and delivered an ironclad case against themselves to the authorities.

wow you have some knowledge there bro....you must be into criminal justice?

 

[shamegame]

Nice post. Although something does seem "oddly irregular" about this case, it does make you think. I do not think we have the police to chase down every batch of seeds that are ordered in the U.S. .

 

[SmokenGirl]

For those of us who have ordered seeds and not had a problem: In all likelihood we are safe b/c if the authorities detected the seeds we would have been notified of their seizure. However, this is a good point about name and address veracity when ordering. How would this be done exactly? Whichever address used would be subject to compromise. Will a seed bank send to a different name than the addressee?

I must say that twice have I ordered with a credit card with my name and address. I probably will do so again. The good seed banks camoflage the seeds into legitimate-appearing packages so that the chance of seizure is slim.

And who exactly are the good seed banks that comoflage? Even sooo I would still be paranoid having it mailed to my own residence where I might smoke and grow, ya know...

 

[Johnnyorganic]

And who exactly are the good seed banks that comoflage?

This forum features new threads all the time discussing seed banks which go into some detail regarding which seed banks are reputable.

Even sooo I would still be paranoid having it mailed to my own residence where I might smoke and grow, ya know...

Government agents are bureaucrats in the end. A Customs Agent would have to go to the trouble of notifying local law enforcement of the thwarted seed delivery. If your seeds are seized and you are notified officially you could move your existing grow. However, if you have not been arrested by the time the notice arrives, you could assume that the bureaucrat seized the seeds and replaced them with the notice then sent your package out for postal delivery. Each agent processes thousands of pieces of overseas mail every work day. After inspecting packages all day, are they really going take their personal time to find and notify local law enforcement? There is no payoff for the Customs agent.

Where I live the city owns the local electrical utility. Incriminating power usage rates by growers would be very easy for even the laziest, donut-eating fuck of a cop to acquire. The truth is that if they really wanted us, they would have us already.

I believe law enforcement won't arrest personal-use growers who fly under their radar. This does not mean you smoke a blunt on your front porch while yelling drunken insults at every passerby. Law enforcement considers us a low priority. We're just not worth their time and assets.

Another reason we lambs sleep with the lions is that the lions cannot harm us without doing severe damage to society. They can't round us up; too many of us now and we're wired. They missed their chance and now we are organized and communicate online. Only a police state could absorb such a surge in the offender population of the existing criminal justice infrastructure (cops, courts & prisons) and avoid a revolt. The criminal justice machine is very expensive to operate. Taxpayers simply would not bear the cost if law enforcement decided to round us up. In other words, if they could have gotten us we would have been penalized out of existence by now.

 

[FilthyFletch]

To bad they didnt say what seed bank they were from lol Yeah you never order to a live address or use your name or for god sakes your own persnal creit card.Occassionally they follow some in.Ohare is a busy airport drop off for the midwest since its the major hub for internatinal mail.Further from it the safer you are

 

[gsxrboy22]

how would u order seeds and whats the best method to do so....thanks

 

[t0k3s]

how would u order seeds and whats the best method to do so....thanks

get one of those blue charge cards where you can use any name you want then add the money you need to it..then order your seeds and when you select the shipping address choose your local ups store.go there get your package whenever you would expect them to be there. or ship them to ur buddys house and use him as a test run j/k

 

[prnkstr]

And if you do sell some of your crop for god sake dont keep a ledger lol.

lol +rep for this i mean come on if you keep a ledger at least make it not so easy to read.

 

[Discolexic]

What kind of idiot keeps a ledger of money made from pot sales?lol What a total moron! Can you imagine........

May 4 2004 2 oz= $600 sold to Tom
May 6 2004 1/2 oz =$150 sold to Fred

What an A-HOLE!!!!!!!

 

[topfuel29]

Seeds Lead To 19 Pot Plants

[FONT=ARIAL, SANS SERIF]Seeds Lead To 19 Pot Plants[/FONT]
[FONT=ARIAL, SANS SERIF]Online Purchase Tracked By Police[/FONT]

[FONT=ARIAL, SANS SERIF]Stan Maddux[/FONT]
[FONT=ARIAL, SANS SERIF]For The News-Dispatch[/FONT]

[FONT=GEORGIA, SERIF]LA PORTE - An online purchase of marijuana seeds from overseas caught the attention of federal authorities, leading to the discovery of an alleged growing operation in La Porte.
[/FONT]

So what does that tell you?
Big brothers watching....

1. why in the hell did they arrive at the airport?
2. he must have been ordering mass amounts of seed to notice a package that looks 'suspicious' i call bullshit
3. why in the fuck did he use his real name and address?


my point is proven all the time. growing weed doesnt get people busted, stupid people growing weed get themselves busted.

no wonder they think us potheads are so dumb.... we do stupid shit and dont cover tracks

mail from over seas usually comes over by plane
chicago is a big hub for international flights.

The dude only had 19 plants when he got busted
he didn't have a big operation...

I don't think it would have mattered if he had
the seeds sent to a P.O BX or a friends, or a UPS mail box
there gonna find you. If you think thats gonna throw them off
think again.

One other thing of note... if you read carefully, the seeds arrived in a completely DIFFERENT state. They arrived in Chicago, and customs called Indiana LEO.

It's just where customs is at. probly one in new york, and L.A, Maimi
probly a bunch around the country.

 

[Ghost420]

IL has there own customs thats why they were cought people please dont paranoid. if you live in IL sorry i would not order seeds you state cracked down back in 2007 aug. dont believe me go read it.