thank you UB for your support and welcome back. i appreciate your quest for fighting all the missinformation thats out there regarding growing mmj... i just started using a nutrient product called flairform. i bought it because its realy easy to use, came highly recommended by a fellow grower, and isnt nearly as costly as some of the mmj specific nutes out there. this grow i am currently growing in coco. the nutrient profile of there grow formula is 3-1-2. so far in grow things are looking extremely healthy. i am about to switch to flower and of course they sell a flowering nute with a profile of 2-2-6 and a bloom booster that they suggest to use later on in flower. its profile is 0-13-11. according to what i have been learning there bloom booster may be to high in P and slow flowering production and there flower formula may be to low in N to support healthy fan leaves throughout flowering. should i just use the grow formula through out the whole cycle and skip the added expense of the flowering nutes ? any input would be greatly appreciated..
Uncle Ben's Gardening Tweeks and Pointers
- Thread starter Uncle Ben
- Start date
fatboyOGOF
Well-Known Member
howdy ben! i'm reading posts in 2009 somewhere at the moment! 
you said you liked a 9-3-6 fert and a 1-3-2. i'm assuming one is for grow and one for flower. as you mention jacks and dyna-gro i located 2 products with those NPKs.
dyna-grow foliage pro is the 9-3-6 and peter's blossom booster is listed as 1-3-2. both products talk about nice leaves but they both refer to foliage and flowering plants as opposed to saying anything about things we may consume like vegetables or fruits. what would we be sacrificing in the marijuana plant to use this product, as opposed to one that mentions that it's good for vegetables/fruits? and is there anything in there that would be harmful when smoked? other than the normal carcinogens we get from using botanicare or AN or GH or....
your threads, and a couple of others, have gotten me motivated to work a little harder on this upcoming veg crop. i go from motivated and into it, to being annoyed that i have to spend 5 mins on them. huh, just like a girl friend!
i'll be out of the AN sensi grow and bloom after next round, and i'm thinking of trying your NPK suggestions. my leaves are reasonably healthy at harvest time, still plenty of fan leaves but you can see that they are about to lose it. i have lost a few fan leaves to yellowing and death (maybe 5 %) at 53 days flower, with 20 days or so to go. i did the all green leaves throughout the grow thing years ago but i don't remember much about it. time to see why i did it once and stopped!
i'm also going to top 1/2 of my seedlings just to see those 4 colas. i haven't tried this technique yet; i usually tie them down!
EDIT: i see this is your answer to a question about what ferts you use.
"I use organics and tweak with off the shelf fertilizerslike Peters, Schultz, commercial stuff too I buy in bulk."
i'm assuming because i don't use all the stuff you mix into your soils that the above mentioned products would be missing some things. i guess i should stick with the AN and add some fish emulsion or something to bump the N up a bit.
you said you liked a 9-3-6 fert and a 1-3-2. i'm assuming one is for grow and one for flower. as you mention jacks and dyna-gro i located 2 products with those NPKs.
dyna-grow foliage pro is the 9-3-6 and peter's blossom booster is listed as 1-3-2. both products talk about nice leaves but they both refer to foliage and flowering plants as opposed to saying anything about things we may consume like vegetables or fruits. what would we be sacrificing in the marijuana plant to use this product, as opposed to one that mentions that it's good for vegetables/fruits? and is there anything in there that would be harmful when smoked? other than the normal carcinogens we get from using botanicare or AN or GH or....
your threads, and a couple of others, have gotten me motivated to work a little harder on this upcoming veg crop. i go from motivated and into it, to being annoyed that i have to spend 5 mins on them. huh, just like a girl friend!
i'll be out of the AN sensi grow and bloom after next round, and i'm thinking of trying your NPK suggestions. my leaves are reasonably healthy at harvest time, still plenty of fan leaves but you can see that they are about to lose it. i have lost a few fan leaves to yellowing and death (maybe 5 %) at 53 days flower, with 20 days or so to go. i did the all green leaves throughout the grow thing years ago but i don't remember much about it. time to see why i did it once and stopped!
i'm also going to top 1/2 of my seedlings just to see those 4 colas. i haven't tried this technique yet; i usually tie them down!
EDIT: i see this is your answer to a question about what ferts you use.
"I use organics and tweak with off the shelf fertilizerslike Peters, Schultz, commercial stuff too I buy in bulk."
i'm assuming because i don't use all the stuff you mix into your soils that the above mentioned products would be missing some things. i guess i should stick with the AN and add some fish emulsion or something to bump the N up a bit.
fatboyOGOF
Well-Known Member
so i opened up my tent and saw more yellowing leaves than i thought i had. i jumped on the interwebs and bought this: miracle grow organic choice all purpose plant food concentrate! it's 8-0-0. i'm going to add abit to my AN sensi grow and bloom nutes and see what happens!
a little tweek here and a little tweek there and with any luck i won't over N them!
a little tweek here and a little tweek there and with any luck i won't over N them!
I love it miracle grow bailing out advanced, they would cringe.so i opened up my tent and saw more yellowing leaves than i thought i had. i jumped on the interwebs and bought this: miracle grow organic choice all purpose plant food concentrate! it's 8-0-0. i'm going to add abit to my AN sensi grow and bloom nutes and see what happens!
a little tweek here and a little tweek there and with any luck i won't over N them!
Try miracle grow blood meal it 12-0-0 cheap and organic. also its domestic blood meal so no chance of Mad cow
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Correct.
The 3-1-2 will produce plenty of bud if the plant is getting complete nutrition regarding the micros too. Folks think (and the manufacturers' play into uninformed growers psychology) that because some nutrition chart says that phosphorous builds stems, roots, and mo' flowers that they should kick up that particular macro, because that's what the public wants. What they don't understand or address is the concept of nutrient antagonism where too much of one interferes with the uptake and processing of another (element). It's all about sales.
See for yourself, experiment. Give some the 3-1-2 from start to finish and others the "bloom boosters" upon flowering with no 3-1-2.
As long as it supports healthy leaf production and maintenance, then that's what you use. You don't use something because of an ad or anecdotal evidence.
fatboyOGOF
Well-Known Member
i never really thought about it until you mentioned it, but AN says to use the same amount of, for example, sensi bloom, from week one as you would use in week 8 or 10. the plants have the same nute needs from week one to week 10? now that i think about it, that doesn't sound right! lol
i'm lazy. i just want something that will allow me to feed and walk away as opposed to fussing over them too much. this is year 18 or 19 of 3 to 4 crops a year so i'm over the thrill of growing pot, but i still love the results of course!
fatboyOGOF
Well-Known Member
fatboyOGOF
Well-Known Member
oh fuck it! i just bought some dyna-Gro's FoliagePro! i have to stop reading this EFFing thread! i'll get some dyna gro bloom later.
i'll do 1/2 the grow using AN sensi grow and bloom, with the miracle grow organic choice all purpose plant food concentrate added, and big bud, and 1/2 the crop using the dyna-gro and bloom maybe an additive or 2. i'll have to do some more reading. i like the first of the month! it's good to have a little cash to piss away!
i'm at 3 weeks or so on some clones and seedlings, sounds like a good time to experiment with a different nute. i'm so curious about keeping leaves green throughout theg row, i'll put my concern about the taste of my joints, and how nicely the ashburns, on hold until testing time. i seem to recall too much N (or is it ferts in general?) causes a harsher taste and those nasty joints that have a hard black ash! i currently have some bud where i ferted the plant and then 2 days later decided to cut the whole crop. this plant's ash barely burns in a joint.hard and black after a couple of tokes! you'd never know i'd been growing for years! lol
i'll do 1/2 the grow using AN sensi grow and bloom, with the miracle grow organic choice all purpose plant food concentrate added, and big bud, and 1/2 the crop using the dyna-gro and bloom maybe an additive or 2. i'll have to do some more reading. i like the first of the month! it's good to have a little cash to piss away!
i'm at 3 weeks or so on some clones and seedlings, sounds like a good time to experiment with a different nute. i'm so curious about keeping leaves green throughout theg row, i'll put my concern about the taste of my joints, and how nicely the ashburns, on hold until testing time. i seem to recall too much N (or is it ferts in general?) causes a harsher taste and those nasty joints that have a hard black ash! i currently have some bud where i ferted the plant and then 2 days later decided to cut the whole crop. this plant's ash barely burns in a joint.hard and black after a couple of tokes! you'd never know i'd been growing for years! lol
thank you UB. much appreciated. i think i will skip the whole experiment though and just run 3-1-2 throughout the grow and keep them fan leaves healthy. im not to much into waisting 2 months of a grow to prove yet another failed grow...
on another note what are your thoughts regarding the use of silicate additives ? some swear it helps tighten buds and help with heat stress however, it is very high in K and can seem like it can be antogonistic with with desired npk ratios for healthy foliage.. your input is always apprciated
on another note what are your thoughts regarding the use of silicate additives ? some swear it helps tighten buds and help with heat stress however, it is very high in K and can seem like it can be antogonistic with with desired npk ratios for healthy foliage.. your input is always apprciated
Wolverine97
Well-Known Member
They make a big difference in pest and fungal resistance, really they do. I'm speaking from personal, side by side experimentation, treated plants in my main room and non treated plants in a tent in the lung room. During this humid summer the plants in the tent which were given no added silica, developed a bit of bud mold where the plants in the main room did not. Same environmental conditions, equivalent ventilation, the only real variable was the added silica.
Joedank
Well-Known Member
^^^ me too last few years out doors I upped silicate with diatomaceous earth and bam the leaves rearranged to the organized pattern to catch optimal light and stems are stronger plant to plant comparison I have done with protec confirm the value of silicate additive once or twice each life cycle.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
I might try silica. Just gonna have to watch for the placebo affect and be objective. If you've just spent time and money on an additive, one is gonna be predisposed to see what you want or expect to see. It's human nature.
IOW, my plants have been fine without such an additive.
IOW, my plants have been fine without such an additive.
Wolverine97
Well-Known Member
I hear what you're saying, but I'm generally a very doubtful and objective person by nature. It's definitely worth using, and doesn't cost much at all. I use 2ml/gal every other feed. It does raise your pH quite a bit though, I know you don't worry about pH (nor do I in general) but just keep that in mind.
bob harris
Well-Known Member
Great info for the novice...and great guidelines for the experienced.
I'll alter temps by growing stage...first 2 weeks of flower I'll run day and night temps almost the same...reduces stretch in my opinion...I'll also lower temps the last 2 weeks (day and night), as well as cut back lights to 11/13..if the strain will benefit in color or ripeness.
And don't forget humidity...little higher in veg...but 40 to 60 in flower..
I'll alter temps by growing stage...first 2 weeks of flower I'll run day and night temps almost the same...reduces stretch in my opinion...I'll also lower temps the last 2 weeks (day and night), as well as cut back lights to 11/13..if the strain will benefit in color or ripeness.
And don't forget humidity...little higher in veg...but 40 to 60 in flower..
phxfire
New Member
What do you think about the Biotanicare CNS 17 Line??
Grow?
Bloom?
Ripe?
And their additives
Liquid karma?
sweet?
Aqua Shield?
Pure Blend original?
cal-mag? I Don't use....
Others-
Super Thrive?
thecoolman
New Member
First before I begin let me state i am just beginning to grow after some years off. I first
started growing cannabis in the early 80s. At that time we made our own hydroponic
systems and there were almost no hydro stores in America. Much has changed since
then particularly the rise in hydro stores pushing snake oil to kids that have no clue about plant nutrition. I have read many of Uncle Bens posts and usually agree with him. With that being said I use hydro at this time and find the flora nova series better than other nutrients on the market including dyna grow which I have used many times. In
particular if ro water is used dyna grow has way to little calcium and magnesium especially compared to fora nova. I have had much better results from the grow formula than the foliage pro. The ratio seems to hot for a lot of species and has way to little iron unlike the grow.
With the flora nova this is all fixed as well as not being low in k during bloom. The only thing its lacking is the nickel and sodium there is usually plenty of sodium in most water and I think this is of no concern and the nickel seems to be ok especialy if we are not using urea as a N source. Dyna grows nickel content is low anyways and would not be enough for crops such as barley legumes or woody perenials which need this micro nute. I also do not like the excessive (for hydro) ammonium Nitrate in dyna grow and feel a readily available form (Nitrate nitrogen) is preferred. I have had good results mixing there grow and bloom in the past to achieve the optimum ratio for the stage of bloom. It is however low in K for hydro but can be remedied somewhat with the adition of 0-0-3 Pro- tekt. Hydro also seems to need more k than soil as in soil we use more P because it is leached out more easily. So in conclusion I find the flora Nova series superior to Dyna grow for Hydro and for you kids who don't like the muddy consistency just remember this is added humic acid and Advanced nutrients would scam you out of at least a hundred dollars more for this.
started growing cannabis in the early 80s. At that time we made our own hydroponic
systems and there were almost no hydro stores in America. Much has changed since
then particularly the rise in hydro stores pushing snake oil to kids that have no clue about plant nutrition. I have read many of Uncle Bens posts and usually agree with him. With that being said I use hydro at this time and find the flora nova series better than other nutrients on the market including dyna grow which I have used many times. In
particular if ro water is used dyna grow has way to little calcium and magnesium especially compared to fora nova. I have had much better results from the grow formula than the foliage pro. The ratio seems to hot for a lot of species and has way to little iron unlike the grow.
With the flora nova this is all fixed as well as not being low in k during bloom. The only thing its lacking is the nickel and sodium there is usually plenty of sodium in most water and I think this is of no concern and the nickel seems to be ok especialy if we are not using urea as a N source. Dyna grows nickel content is low anyways and would not be enough for crops such as barley legumes or woody perenials which need this micro nute. I also do not like the excessive (for hydro) ammonium Nitrate in dyna grow and feel a readily available form (Nitrate nitrogen) is preferred. I have had good results mixing there grow and bloom in the past to achieve the optimum ratio for the stage of bloom. It is however low in K for hydro but can be remedied somewhat with the adition of 0-0-3 Pro- tekt. Hydro also seems to need more k than soil as in soil we use more P because it is leached out more easily. So in conclusion I find the flora Nova series superior to Dyna grow for Hydro and for you kids who don't like the muddy consistency just remember this is added humic acid and Advanced nutrients would scam you out of at least a hundred dollars more for this.