CountGlochula
Active Member
pretty simple let me hear your thought's
Did God Create Robots or Was Freewill International?
- Thread starter CountGlochula
- Start date
Hepheastus420
Well-Known Member
Lol that's not simple, 
.
But I'll take a stab at it.
Here's my opinion, I don't know where I got my thoughts, it's just how I think god would be.
Alright so god wouldn't want us to be with him if we were robots. I mean who honestly fools themselves into thinking the people he hangs out with are just there because he programmed them to? That's like some guy thinking he's awesome because he bought a sex doll that is meant for him to use, no, a real man would get a real women (or man if you go the other way) and then would be happy to spend their lives with that person.
I believe god let's us choose between heaven or not. If not heaven I have no idea where we go. Like why wouldn't he let us choose? Maybe he knows what will happen to us, but that doesn't mean he made us do that.
Let's say you can tell the future. You know you're gone have five kids. 3 will love you and 2 will hate you. Remember, you know this. Now would you still have those kids even though you know what would happen? I think god chose to have us. Some followed him and some didn't, he knew the whole time who and who wouldn't follow him, but it still doesn't mean he programmed us that way.
And since I believe in free will it would be contrary to my beliefs to believe in hell (hell being the crazy fire land). Why would a forgiving god send us to hell? Especially if he knew we would go there.
In many religions the way to get into heaven is to accept a savior. Why would he give you the option to reject or accept a savior if it wasn't for free will?
I don't know if my posts were clear, my brain is in a whole other place right now, but here's my thoughts.
.But I'll take a stab at it.
Here's my opinion, I don't know where I got my thoughts, it's just how I think god would be.
Alright so god wouldn't want us to be with him if we were robots. I mean who honestly fools themselves into thinking the people he hangs out with are just there because he programmed them to? That's like some guy thinking he's awesome because he bought a sex doll that is meant for him to use, no, a real man would get a real women (or man if you go the other way) and then would be happy to spend their lives with that person.
I believe god let's us choose between heaven or not. If not heaven I have no idea where we go. Like why wouldn't he let us choose? Maybe he knows what will happen to us, but that doesn't mean he made us do that.
Let's say you can tell the future. You know you're gone have five kids. 3 will love you and 2 will hate you. Remember, you know this. Now would you still have those kids even though you know what would happen? I think god chose to have us. Some followed him and some didn't, he knew the whole time who and who wouldn't follow him, but it still doesn't mean he programmed us that way.
And since I believe in free will it would be contrary to my beliefs to believe in hell (hell being the crazy fire land). Why would a forgiving god send us to hell? Especially if he knew we would go there.
In many religions the way to get into heaven is to accept a savior. Why would he give you the option to reject or accept a savior if it wasn't for free will?
I don't know if my posts were clear, my brain is in a whole other place right now, but here's my thoughts.
tyler.durden
Well-Known Member
If god is omniscient, we have no real free will. He knows exactly how each of our lives will be upon creating us, and our choices would just be our illusions. I don't believe in a god, and I believe we have free will. This always seemed pretty cut & dried to me...
Hepheastus420
Well-Known Member
Did you see the situation in my post?
If you were gonna have 5 kids and you knew it, 3 would love you and listen to you, and 2 wouldn't give a shit about you, and you knew all this. Would you still have your 5 kids?
I think god decided to have us, he knew our future, that doesn't mean he made us do what we do.
Just like if your situation was real, did you force your kids to love you? No, you didn't (I hope not at least, lol). So you knew there future, but you still didn't make them robots by making sure they love you.
tyler.durden
Well-Known Member
How my kids feel about me isn't my primary concern. My main concern is how they live their lives, how effective and happy they are independent of me. Of course, if I do a great job raising them it's doubtful they wouldn't care about me, but that happens. If I could create conscious life and I was omniscient and omnipotent (impossible to be both, but somehow god pulls it off) I would never create a creature that wouldn't enjoy its life. So, god creates each one of us exactly how he chooses, knows exactly what each one of us will do during our lives, but is NOT the force that governs our actions? How does that work?
RawBudzski
Well-Known Member
.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . .
bigbillyrocka
Well-Known Member
Neither, God IS a robot...
Hepheastus420
Well-Known Member
I'm saying even if god knew our future it doesn't mean he programmed us to do what we do.
So you wouldn't create a creature that could feel hate towards you or towards life? That would be a robot with no free will.
God gave us free will, that's why some can reject him and some don't.
RawBudzski
Well-Known Member
If "god" exists. Trust me, he is more mature than to worry about what we think of him.
tyler.durden
Well-Known Member
I still don't get it: if god is omnipotent (can make us any way he chooses), and he knows exactly EVERYTHING we're going to do, how is there any free will? If I knew everything you, and everyone, was going to do, how would you have free will? You may have the illusion that you have choice, but if I knew everything you're going to do you wouldn't have free will any more than the characters in a book have free will (the book is already written and finished before we start reading it). He knows UPON MAKING EACH ONE OF US who is going to believe and who is not. I've heard it said god created us for his own glory, wouldn't it be much more efficient to create all of us to worship him? If this is our purpose, why give us a choice? And if he gives us a choice, why does he get so upset when we make one he doesn't prefer?
Hepheastus420
Well-Known Member
Do you think if fortune tellers could actually tell the future they control our lives?
Crappy example but I hope you see what I mean.
tyler.durden
Well-Known Member
No, but if they could accurately tell the future it would show that we have no free will. Also, fortune tellers don't claim to have created us, nor are they omnipotent...
Hepheastus420
Well-Known Member
I'm just saying in my beliefs I believe we have free will. But I do see your point and the fortune teller thing was my last resort, lol.
I don't know I have nothing to explain my beliefs, I just pull them out of thin air, which I guess is bad, but ehh.
I just can't see why god would want a bunch of robots around him. What if god just created us and let us roam around? He knew what was gonna happen, but how does that mean free will is a lie?
tyler.durden
Well-Known Member
I love your honesty, Hep. God, being omnipotent and omniscient, wrote our entire book upon creating us. How could we, as the protagonists in our own books, have free will when the book is already finished? As conscious characters in our books proceeding in a linear timeline, we would think we're making choices, but since the books are complete that couldn't be the case. Free will in this case would just be an illusion from our perspective. I'm sure you understand my point....
Hepheastus420
Well-Known Member
FUCK..... Damn.... Alright I just finished typing out a huge post with many contradictory thoughts and went in depth with what my point was.... Then, since I'm using my iPod, my finger touched the fucking back button. Man fuck this lol, I'm gonna go smoke a bowl, shit it's 5:01 am too. Oh man I wanna smash my iPod, I'm gonna start using smoke signals to talk to you guys.
I'll probably end up reposting about a quarter of my post in a little while. Turns out I'm siding with no free will now,
.
The Cryptkeeper
Well-Known Member
DAMN.... I'm a nihilist, so I have NO interest whatsoever in debating religion with believers, but this, this right here? This smashed any counter I would write to the free will bit. Perfectly lucid and would instantly revert the religious folk to their favorite incontrovertible rebuttal of "Well it's just what I believe.".
+rep Tyler.
Hepheastus420
Well-Known Member
Lol, honesty, yup I see no point in typing lies. I mean I actually like debates because I can learn from them, so I tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth even if it contradicts my previous thoughts. If someone proves me wrong then that means that person has taught me something, like you have taught me things, ha. Thanks I like your thoughtful debates that don't result in pointless childish insults, lol.
But anyways back on topic.
Just because god knows our actions doesn't mean he controls them. Tonight I knew the moon would rise, but that doesn't mean I forced it to rise. But I guess I'm no god, lol.
I really do get your point Tyler. Like no joke, if this thread was made last month I would have been arguing for no free will, ha. So I understand what you're saying.
I know stand undecided. On one hand god knew I would drink too much vodka and pass out in a tub; but that doesn't mean he forces us to do anything, on the other hand he knew how the world is, was, and will be so by setting all this (life) in motion he is kinda forcing us. Hmm I have to think about this....
Oh yeah another question... Is the book fully written? Lol, seriously think about it. Like god follows no time, so did he see us in the future and then wrote the book in the past while in the future? Or he could have been in our previous past while we are in the future while he's writing..... I'm not gonna finish these thoughts, ha. It's just gonna sound like a bunch of gibberish, I mean I was lost when I asked "is the book fully written?"..
But anyways back on topic.
Just because god knows our actions doesn't mean he controls them. Tonight I knew the moon would rise, but that doesn't mean I forced it to rise. But I guess I'm no god, lol.
I really do get your point Tyler. Like no joke, if this thread was made last month I would have been arguing for no free will, ha. So I understand what you're saying.
I know stand undecided. On one hand god knew I would drink too much vodka and pass out in a tub; but that doesn't mean he forces us to do anything, on the other hand he knew how the world is, was, and will be so by setting all this (life) in motion he is kinda forcing us. Hmm I have to think about this....
Oh yeah another question... Is the book fully written? Lol, seriously think about it. Like god follows no time, so did he see us in the future and then wrote the book in the past while in the future? Or he could have been in our previous past while we are in the future while he's writing..... I'm not gonna finish these thoughts, ha. It's just gonna sound like a bunch of gibberish, I mean I was lost when I asked "is the book fully written?".
.
Hepheastus420
Well-Known Member
Free will or no free will, either way it is just a belief. Free will, I think, was just made up. But it was made up with some pretty legitimate points. I'm never sure which is right, but I don't see why any religious person would ignore the possibility of there being no free will. Either way it doesn't change anything.DAMN.... I'm a nihilist, so I have NO interest whatsoever in debating religion with believers, but this, this right here? This smashed any counter I would write to the free will bit. Perfectly lucid and would instantly revert the religious folk to their favorite incontrovertible rebuttal of "Well it's just what I believe.".
+rep Tyler.
.
The Cryptkeeper
Well-Known Member
If god is omniscient then yes, the book is fully written. How did god 'force' you? By creating you and fully knowing what was going to happen.Lol, honesty, yup I see no point in typing lies. I mean I actually like debates because I can learn from them, so I tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth even if it contradicts my previous thoughts. If someone proves me wrong then that means that person has taught me something, like you have taught me things, ha. Thanks I like your thoughtful debates that don't result in pointless childish insults, lol.
But anyways back on topic.
Just because god knows our actions doesn't mean he controls them. Tonight I knew the moon would rise, but that doesn't mean I forced it to rise. But I guess I'm no god, lol.
I really do get your point Tyler. Like no joke, if this thread was made last month I would have been arguing for no free will, ha. So I understand what you're saying.
I know stand undecided. On one hand god knew I would drink too much vodka and pass out in a tub; but that doesn't mean he forces us to do anything, on the other hand he knew how the world is, was, and will be so by setting all this (life) in motion he is kinda forcing us. Hmm I have to think about this....
Oh yeah another question... Is the book fully written? Lol, seriously think about it. Like god follows no time, so did he see us in the future and then wrote the book in the past while in the future? Or he could have been in our previous past while we are in the future while he's writing..... I'm not gonna finish these thoughts, ha. It's just gonna sound like a bunch of gibberish, I mean I was lost when I asked "is the book fully written?".
Hepheastus420
Well-Known Member
Yeah I know, that's why I said when he pushed life into motion he forced everything upon us. Like I didn't ask to live, I don't regret it, but I didn't ask for it.If god is omniscient then yes, the book is fully written. How did god 'force' you? By creating you and fully knowing what was going to happen.