this is not an argument of right and wrong, this is a contest to see who is able to devise the most complicated argument and counter those who would oppose.
what we do not realize is there is no end..... there is no victory to be had and we fight on because its what we believe in. we have no common ground on which to base our argument, we have no shared definition of right and wrong, and unless we can find some common ground we might as well be speaking in different languages. all we are able to do is twist the meanings of words or make associations to confuse our opposition.
but until then we can continue this =)