14x1750=1750 WTF, Small Cfl Array, Input Appreciated

Garden Knowm

Garden Knowm

The Love Doctor
Dr G.Thumb said:
In terms of Intensity, no its not any brighter. Its perceived as being brighter by your eyes simply due to the fact that there is more light from multiple lights vs one which just increases the coverage area.
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nice to see you on this thread... it is kinda headed in the same direction as that other thread.... cfl advantages...
 
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SWAT Slash

Active Member
C_Pac said:
You can add lumens. It's a rough estimate of actual output hitting the plant. But when you're adding bulbs you're distributing the source(s). Imagine you have 2 bulbs on either side of the plant, each giving off 2600 lumens. Your *plant* is effectively benefiting from 5200 lumens, just not all on the same part of the plant.

You have to keep in mind that lumens dissipate drastically with distance so if your array is set up so that some bulbs are farther from the plant than others they are much less effective.

Since CFLs produce so much less light right at the origin than hids, the way the array distributes can make a huge difference.
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Garden Knowm said:
adding bulbs is a good thing... I am very comfortable with this statement ..

:mrgreen:
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I think these pretty much answer the question.

more bulbs= more light HITTING the leafs= more growth

but, more lights DOESNT mean its any brighter...
 
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sicknasty

Well-Known Member
pull your heads out. More lights = more lumens in the area

don't be retarded.

take a meter and dont be fucking retarded. turn one bulb on 4 inches from the meter. record. turn another bulb on on the other side of the meter tada twice the lumens. you have to be fucking kidding me haha you cant add lumens lol
 
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sicknasty

Well-Known Member
think of it this way a 200w bulb make roughly twice the lumens of a 100w bulb ok. You all need to quit smoking forever who think you can't add lumens.
 
LoudBlunts

LoudBlunts

Well-Known Member
hahahaha you might want to do some reading before you call ANYBODY retarded.



i take it you've never studied physics.
 
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sicknasty

Well-Known Member
oh shit your right, I only just took it last semester. Since my plant isn't getting anymore lumens I'll just go back to one bulb. How hard is this quit smoking please your making my IQ go down. In my square foot of plant if I add one more 42w CFL I add 2800 lumens to the area. This is you on pot durrrhrhrhrhrhr.

guess what you percieve more light... because there is more light. If you could 4th dimensionally stack CFL's on top of each other and perceive them at one time all at once they would double the lumens if you had two in the same exact space.
 
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sicknasty

Well-Known Member
ok one last post before bed. You can't add lumens at the source correct. 4th dimension analogy. But who gives a shit about the source, the plant is where the lumens matter, so just STFU about the source. You put 2800 more different source lumens per bulb but they combine to the destination and add. I guess this might help you understand. Why CFL need to be close is lower source lumens than HID. But because of inverse square you can get effectively the same amount because CFL are cool and can be really close to the plant where HID needs to be a good distance away.
 
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sicknasty

Well-Known Member
wow really? how hard is it? You want to talk physics and you can't add light output? According to your advanced reasoning any size CFL should only put out 1 photon for each phosphor atom that jumps an electron to a higher energy state and back down because you can't add all the photons together to get a total light output. Wow since when does writing a book make you an authority on every subject I have bought many books some on extremely complicated subjects like advanced in-situ remediation, microbiological labratory procedure, chilton engine repair manuals and other things you obviously couldn't begin to understand and usually they ship with a correction sheet outlining the corrections in the book. You cease to amaze me.

here is one more example a 200w light puts out 50,000 lumens. A 100w light puts out 25,000. How can you not add lumens when if you put 2 100w lights and they both put out 25,000 lumens.

You have been slightly correct the whole time but extremely wrong as you don't know your definitions and when a CFL bulb is rated for lumens its really a calculation of the enitre output over the entire surface area of the bulb. HPS lumens make more sense because they come from a smaller point.
Lumens are the quantity of luminous flux emitted within a unit solid angle (one steradian) by a point source with one candella intensity in all directions. A steradian is Steradian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. So your definition of Lumen is wrong anyway because all those lumens from a 200w light dont come from a finite point they come from the entire bulb spread out. Using that definition of lumens you CAN ADD THEM because they do not all come from a fixed single point. We should really be talking about luminous flux which is a measure of light in the area. The definition of lumens is jacked up anyway and none of you understand that because you need to be hit in the head with a tack hammer. I am just using the lamen term for light which would have been fine with my post ending the discussion, really quit trying to outsmart someone its annoying.

Sorry for frying your brain with the 4th dimension analogy, I knew you wouldn't get it read the thing on steradians and It might make sense.
 
Garden Knowm

Garden Knowm

The Love Doctor
sicknasty said:
wow really? how hard is it? You want to talk physics and you can't add light output? According to your advanced reasoning any size CFL should only put out 1 photon for each phosphor atom that jumps an electron to a higher energy state and back down because you can't add all the photons together to get a total light output. Wow since when does writing a book make you an authority on every subject I have bought many books some on extremely complicated subjects like advanced in-situ remediation, microbiological labratory procedure, chilton engine repair manuals and other things you obviously couldn't begin to understand and usually they ship with a correction sheet outlining the corrections in the book. You cease to amaze me.

here is one more example a 200w light puts out 50,000 lumens. A 100w light puts out 25,000. How can you not add lumens when if you put 2 100w lights and they both put out 25,000 lumens.

You have been slightly correct the whole time but extremely wrong as you don't know your definitions and when a CFL bulb is rated for lumens its really a calculation of the enitre output over the entire surface area of the bulb. HPS lumens make more sense because they come from a smaller point.
Lumens are the quantity of luminous flux emitted within a unit solid angle (one steradian) by a point source with one candella intensity in all directions. A steradian is Steradian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. So your definition of Lumen is wrong anyway because all those lumens from a 200w light dont come from a finite point they come from the entire bulb spread out. Using that definition of lumens you CAN ADD THEM because they do not all come from a fixed single point. We should really be talking about luminous flux which is a measure of light in the area. The definition of lumens is jacked up anyway and none of you understand that because you need to be hit in the head with a tack hammer. I am just using the lamen term for light which would have been fine with my post ending the discussion, really quit trying to outsmart someone its annoying.

Sorry for frying your brain with the 4th dimension analogy, I knew you wouldn't get it read the thing on steradians and It might make sense.
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The real issue here, is that you are taking a position that you can not explain...... and the more frustrated you get at your own inability to explain it to us, the more you get upset and attack the people in this thread...


YOU are spending more time putting people down.. and defending your own inability to explain it to US than actually explaining your position.

'If you are so smart and so brilliant and so crafty.. how come you can't explain to a group of retards how lumens work?

Drop the pretentious shit.... we don;t give a fook if you are right or wrong or if you're an idiot or smart.. we are just trying to solve the lumen issue...

Yes we know more light bulbs is better... that is not what we are talking about... yes we n=know more light bulbs means more light..

great... you get a fooking brownie..

we are concerned with the definition of lumen..

Your posts make no sense to us.. except for the name calling... and insults... ahahahah

we get those loud and clear...

IF you really were sure about YOUR stance and really new what you were talking about, you would not attack us...

In almost every post you say something like... :"you guys are half right"

or you "almost understand"...

NO DUDE, we don't understand, we are not half right....that is why we have this thread.. and so far you have not contributed SHIT.. nothing.. nada....

iloveyou
 
BigBudBalls

BigBudBalls

Well-Known Member
sicknasty said:
here is one more example a 200w light puts out 50,000 lumens. A 100w light puts out 25,000. How can you not add lumens when if you put 2 100w lights and they both put out 25,000 lumens.
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May not relate, might But at least food for thought. But if I have a hot plate that is 100F and another at 100F, thats not gonna give me 200F.
 
panhead

panhead

Well-Known Member
P@ssw0rd said:
Working great but i would still love to know how many lumens do i really have? Just curiosity really. Thanks for all the help.
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My understanding of this subject is that the term "Lumen" covers alot of ground because of its improper use in most cases when talking about what were talking about,stacking lights does add to the intensity of light perceived by the eye but it does not add to the lumen output,this is where the confusion starts,in most cases the confusion is because this method of (stacking lights) will show more visable light but it will not show up on a lumen meter, because the lumen output never changes,even with more bulbs,confused yet? So am i but dont worry there's more :mrgreen:

The added light that is clearly visable by the human eye is not due to added lumens,it is because by running more lights you are adding to the "Radiant Light" which is the total amount of light visable at any time,Radiant Light is what we see, not lumens.

So to answer your question about lumens,whatever the lumen rating is from your strongest bulb that will be your total lumen output, even with all the lights running in a dasiy chain,what will increase with the added lights is the Radiant light in the area.
 
Al B. Fuct

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
sicknasty said:
pull your heads out. More lights = more lumens in the area

don't be retarded.

take a meter and dont be fucking retarded. turn one bulb on 4 inches from the meter. record. turn another bulb on on the other side of the meter tada twice the lumens. you have to be fucking kidding me haha you cant add lumens lol
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Lumens don't 'add.'

Here's 2 CFLs with a lux meter sensor within 2" of each.



Here's the meter reading one of the two CFLs as pictured above:



huh, they're almost exactly the same....

So, am I fucking retarded, is my lux meter fucking retarded, are my CFLs fucking retarded or is the science fucking retarded?

Note the glaring omission of the possibility that YOU could be fucking retarded...

So, as Dr Julius Sumner Miller would say- WHY is it so?

Luminous intensity (in lumens) is a measure of brightness. Putting a lamp next to another makes it no brighter. The lux meter is reading the intensity of the brightest light source- it is not counting the number of photons.

Luminous intensity in parallel is a lot like voltage in parallel. You get the same voltage/luminous intensity but you can source more current/light more area at the same voltage/same luminous intensity. However, it's not possible to add luminous intensity in series as one can add voltages of batteries in series. If you want more luminous 'voltage' you have to get a higher 'luminous voltage' single source- aka a more intense light... like HID.

The lumen unit measures the energy of or 'push' behind the photons, not the quantity of them.

1x or 1,000,000x 1750 lumen CFLs over a certain area will yield 1750 lumens. You can cover more area at 1750lm with your million 1750lm CFLs, but none of the lights gets any brighter than 1750lm.
 
BigBudBalls

BigBudBalls

Well-Known Member
Al B. Fuct said:
Lumens don't 'add.'
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Thanks man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I also feel that the rated output of a CFL (26W=100W normal bulb is BS, its rather lower)

I am totally on your side on this argument. Though plan on calling an optical engineer (this guy is killer!) I used to work with next week and get a final answer (in my eyes, weather you guys believe me is irrelevant)
Lumens, lux, intensity, etc. I'll try to get something in text.

I see pros and cons on both fronts. But still confused.
 
Al B. Fuct

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Well, thanks for the message of support- but I'm not really looking for support nor either to win any debates. I just want folks to better understand the nature of luminous intensity and how it works with multiple light sources in a horticultural application.

When investigating, remember that cannabis plants don't have eyes nor brains with occipital lobes, so human perceptions of brightness are meaningless to them. All they care about is the energy level of the photons hitting their leaves.
 
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