The Lost Art of Foliar Feeding

[Wolverine97]

I have always used superthrive (B-1) on my bonsai trees and now on Cannabis as well as a diluted nutrient solution, Dutch Gold A and B during grow, Sensi Bloom A and B now that I'm flowering, a few drops of biodegradable shampoo/detergent as a 'spreader'/'sticker', and a light dose of micro nutrients, (like Earth Juice Micro-Blast). I always use water that's been in a well aired container with a small amount of food grade H2O2 for at least 24 hours, and tend to foliar feed about once a week, but mist with superthrive more regularly. I have used harpin protein before, a product called Messenger. I was under the impression though, that it was not yet approved for food crops and that keeps me from using it on my bud... I know aspirin also produces a systemic immune response, however it may interfere with other hormones in use, like thiamin, so again, I use it seldom.
The most important thing to remember about foliar feeding is to keep it light, as its easy to burn the leaves if salt residues form on the leaf surface, causing moisture to be sucked out of the plant cells toward the residues... essentially reverse osmosis, only in the leaves rather than the roots. I try to keep the nutrient levels at an EC a quarter or less that which I would use to water the roots. Also, if the plant is fed through the leaves too often it can cause the root system to weaken, or so I've read. Its best to keep a balance between foliar and root feeding in my experience. I will say that regular misting does seem to help with some pest issues, particularly spider-mites, though some pests will actually be attracted to moist leaves, like aphids, and of course one can cause mildew, mold or fungal problems if the leaves are wet too often. Environmental factors like humidity, air exchange and temperature will greatly effect how much one can mist. A cool, stale, damp environment is no place for foliar feeding where Cannabis and many other plants are concerned. Again, a balance must be struck. There is no magic formula or 'trick' to grow well, its a matter of careful, measured care, and nothing will teach that better than experience.

Good stuff there smalltruth, welcome.

 

[budman111]

No worries their smalltalk, farmers are spraying this on food crops every 2 weeks. That is the reason i stick to the 2 week regime in flowering stage.

Their is a shitload more to worry that they spray on our food that harpin, I read somewhere a few months back that Brazilian farmers still use Paclobutrazol on foodcrops

 

[smallttruth]

Thanks budman111. BTW: Its 'small 't' truth'.... Not that it matters that much...

Oh, and thanks for the welcome, Wolverine97... Growing is my passion, and I have really worked in isolation for so long... Nice to have a forum where ideas and experience can be exchanged.

At any rate, that is spooky. I know big corporate farms use all kinds of nasty chemicals and genetic modifications to grow the world's food supply. It makes most cannabis growers look like 'organic saints' by comparison... So harpin is considered okay for food crops then? That's good to know. With all the other things I give my kids to encourage growth, I don't know if it would help that much anyway. I assume, and have read, that there is a genetic threshold for growth despite whatever one puts in their feeding regiment. In other words, one can push growth and budding quite far with various additives, assuming all other major factors are also maxed-out, but the plant itself is only capable of producing so much, so despite tons of chemical reactions telling the plant to grow, grow, grow, there is a definite, genetically predetermined ceiling that, once reached, will not change no matter what might be introduced... Any opinions one way or the other? Anyone?

 

[Wolverine97]

Thanks budman111. BTW: Its 'small 't' truth'.... Not that it matters that much...

Oh, and thanks for the welcome, Wolverine97... Growing is my passion, and I have really worked in isolation for so long... Nice to have a forum where ideas and experience can be exchanged.

At any rate, that is spooky. I know big corporate farms use all kinds of nasty chemicals and genetic modifications to grow the world's food supply. It makes most cannabis growers look like 'organic saints' by comparison... So harpin is considered okay for food crops then? That's good to know. With all the other things I give my kids to encourage growth, I don't know if it would help that much anyway. I assume, and have read, that there is a genetic threshold for growth despite whatever one puts in their feeding regiment. In other words, one can push growth and budding quite far with various additives, assuming all other major factors are also maxed-out, but the plant itself is only capable of producing so much, so despite tons of chemical reactions telling the plant to grow, grow, grow, there is a definite, genetically predetermined ceiling that, once reached, will not change no matter what might be introduced... Any opinions one way or the other? Anyone?

That may be true, but for most strains we're never going to hit that threshold indoors anyhow. Outdoors maybe, but not in.

 

[Uncle Ben]

At any rate, that is spooky. I know big corporate farms use all kinds of nasty chemicals and genetic modifications to grow the world's food supply.

Exactly what "nasty" chemicals are you talking about? Are you a commercial farmer and have the facts or you going by the new trendy bullshit of "organic", "natural", "pure", so that some greedy shyster can charge you triple for something that is nothing but a lie. There are no organic saints, only fools. Now, I'm about as "organic" as they come because I understand soil chemistry, soil life.....not because of the politics and feelings involved. I literally have stockpiles of compost, horse manure and mulch material like hay and pine needles which I use liberally.

Also, how does a genetically modified plant, say......one that is not effected by glyphosate, get linked to health issues other than via the Green Movement's propaganda machine?

Having said that, welcome to the No Spin zone.

Uncle Ben

 

[budman111]

even organics turn to 'chemicals' as such.

 

[smallttruth]

Chemical companies are saintly, charitable organizations. Its those damn 'green' folks that are profit driven crooks! No, but seriously, I'm sure there must be money to be made in at least one of the two... I don't know... would you willingly ingest 'Roundup'? I'm sure Monsanto has all our best interests in mind, though. A plant that is modified to resist this chemical may also have other, unknown altered properties... and that is where the potential harm creeps in. Just because a jug of 'kill-bugs-dead' doesn't jump up and bite one in the ass doesn't mean its great for us all to pour it on our breakfast cereals... or dump it in our ground water, for that matter... I don't need a PhD in chemistry to know that the cigarettes I smoke can kill me. But I already digress...
Okay, let me say right off the bat, I do NOT have empirical evidence memorized, nor do I believe all corporate farming methods or gene-manipulation are inherently harmful... I am, however, a skeptic by nature, whether it's concerning the 'green' movement, or corporate advertisements. It's not terribly difficult to manipulate findings, as past incidents have shown, like cigarette companies hiding their findings on the addictive properties of their products, or factories that have dumped or allowed leakage of their waste products into water supplies. I never meant to say, 'synthetic chemicals= bad...' (and yes, 'its' ALL chemicals, nature that biatch! I get that), only that some of the chemicals used on food crops are hazardous to the soil, water and probably our cells, but so is cyanide, 'au natural' ha ha ha. No one, not even the scientists that manipulate genes for crops in a lab, really know precisely what they are also turning on.... one desired trait, like higher yields, may be obtained, and for starving people that is a good thing, but for everything we can see there may be 2 or 3 things we can't.... (even 'politically conservative' geneticists will admit that) so there is no real way to know what the selection of these genes may lead to down the road, and that IS scary to me... sorry. I understand that every living organism undergoes mutation over time, but these changes are complex interactions within a context which is probably impossible to duplicate in a lab, and no, I'm not a scientist (my major was philosophy, actually, so feel free to poke fun at that...) and yes, we have been purposefully manipulating the genes in plants and animals from the start of agriculture through selection, but I also know that there is some difference between responsible, sustainable growing and large scale corporate farming as it is often practiced today, just as there is a difference between isolating and changing a chain of genetic material and that genetic material slowly altering within the organism over time. Believe it or not, the old captains of industry can also be 'greedy shysters' - and they've had a long time to hone their craft. Market values can be temporarily manipulated by hype, but eventually the cost of production and demand will determine prices. I don't doubt that there are many greedy dicks out there that are full of it when they market their 'organic' whatever, but really? You really believe an apple's an apple, no matter how its grown or what its treated with? But hey, if you're the 'soil chemistry' guy, you should know... Look at the area outside New Orleans where farmland runoff from the rivers (via the ol' Miss. River in the mid-west) empties into the gulf.... a dead zone for miles and miles. Something about that is seriously fucked. As shocking as it may be, the 'little-ol'-ma-and-pa-agro-firm', owned by the 'cute-little-chemical-firm', owned by the 'smiley-guy-general finance, insurance and nuclear-war-head- company', who answers to faceless stockholders demanding maximum return, might just be using whatever makes for the cheapest produce.... But hey, they're not ripping you off! Maybe some poor people in Taiwan that have a chemical cest-pool for their backyard, but not us! And I'm sure some of those 'little-ol'-ma-and-pa-companies' call themselves 'organic bla, bla, bla...' I am not a devout organic anything. I do make my own compost and worm castings (hooray...) and stay away from really toxic pesticides, but I do use plenty of fertilizers that are not 'OMGI'. I do appreciate soil chemistry, though i am not an expert... I'm learning, and have done pretty well growing in what I've put together, and i love that soil-life... Good stuff. I got tons-o-fungus growing all the time in aerated containers... Organics are chemicals, period... but naturally occurring compounds in compost are not the same as a package of Miracle Grow (I think the bright blue hue gives it away... just kidding. (also not knocking MG..., just a point). While I do not think we can pretend that we can all rely purely on whole organic compounds for everything, I also believe there is a lot of room for abuse. I mean, the fucking atom bomb didn't just happen, and I for one would rather it not have at all. By the time it was used it was pretty much only an exercise in 'don't fuck with us, everyone else!' but then we also learned a lot from the research... (and yes, before anyone writes it as a reply to show me the error of my thinking, nuclear reactors are everywhere in nature...stars, for instance, which made our existence possible, so thank you nuclear reactions!!). I guess my point was quite simple, and obviously also somewhat ambiguous... I DO think that it is unwise to trust that profit geared, power hungry giants are making sure that everything they use is safe and sustainable, (and with many billion humans on this little rock, that might be a concern for us).. and everything they sell us is quite fine and healthy to suck down, I'm sure. Hell, I don't even trust myself that much... I am definitely on the left of things, but I am not a professed purest (whatever the hell that means anyway), and am aware that many of the 'chemicals' we use allow our fine, gentle species to live in the billions on this planet (though whether THAT is a good thing I will not even try to touch here)... I soooo did not mean to open some proverbial 'socio-political can of worms'. Its not the thing itself, at the risk of sounding clique, but how we use it and toward what end that can be 'bad'. Okay? I'd rather write about growing and leave the other issues alone, at least on this forum. Besides, I have plenty of people to piss off in my hum-drum daily life. I will not make anymore sweeping statements about 'chemicals' if I can help it.... starting......... NOW! ha ha ha ha ah ha ah ha, diddly-doo- dot-dibity-doo, and of course, araz-mataz! Wecome to the "there's no such thing as a 'no-spin-zone' zone!" But try telling FOX that! Oh hell, I did it again...

 

[smallttruth]

Exactly what "nasty" chemicals are you talking about? Are you a commercial farmer and have the facts or you going by the new trendy bullshit of "organic", "natural", "pure", so that some greedy shyster can charge you triple for something that is nothing but a lie. There are no organic saints, only fools. Now, I'm about as "organic" as they come because I understand soil chemistry, soil life.....not because of the politics and feelings involved. I literally have stockpiles of compost, horse manure and mulch material like hay and pine needles which I use liberally.

Also, how does a genetically modified plant, say......one that is not effected by glyphosate, get linked to health issues other than via the Green Movement's propaganda machine?

Having said that, welcome to the No Spin zone.

Uncle Ben

And what idiot, pray-tell, would mistake 'feelings' for empirical evidence, judgement or argument? I may be many things, but an idiot is not one of them.... At least that's what my mommy tells me....ha ha ha. I am not holier than thou, in fact, if such a thing as 'holy' exists, I am a good sight off the mark... It seems to me that it's no more rational to believe everything the environmentalists espouse is bullshit, as to believe everything the agro-industry uses is safe... Dogma, in any form, is a sorry substitute for thought. We can only use our critical capacities to make judgements, and these are often 'contextually true' at best.. They are, if you will, small 't' truths... Hardy, har, har... I'm sure lists could be compiled, files filed, etc. Done and done.

 

[Uncle Ben]

The environmentalists don't run off facts. They are driven by emotions....hype and ideology. Entomologist's do work off facts, empirical evidence. Now, if the EPA mandated label, complete with app instructions isn't good enough, talk to a PhD of entomology about the actual effects of say malathion. It breaks down into the phosphate from which it was derived. Microbes are known to feed on glyphosate (Round-Up).

Again, what is the direct association regarding health issues with seed stock that has been genetically modified?

 

[Wolverine97]

The environmentalists don't run off facts. They are driven by emotions....hype and ideology. Entomologist's do work off facts, empirical evidence. Now, if the EPA mandated label, complete with app instructions isn't good enough, talk to a PhD of entomology about the actual effects of say malathion. It breaks down into the phosphate from which it was derived. Microbes are known to feed on glyphosate (Round-Up).

Again, what is the direct association regarding health issues with seed stock that has been genetically modified?

Well, I'll preface by saying that I'm really blazed right now. I don't think we know just yet what all of the health implications are from GMO food crops (whether for human food supply, or livestock). The way I see it we are playing with fire, and unintended consequences can be a motherfucker. The example that's coming to mind for me is Monsanto's "terminator" gene technology. What would happen if something like that were to be "let loose" into nature? Not to mention all of the small farmers that Monsanto has put out of business because their fields were naturally pollinated by Monsanto crops in other farmers' fields...

And the issue with the "dead zone" around the Louisiana delta is pretty well established as fact.

 

[smallttruth]

Well, I'll preface by saying that I'm really blazed right now. I don't think we know just yet what all of the health implications are from GMO food crops (whether for human food supply, or livestock). The way I see it we are playing with fire, and unintended consequences can be a motherfucker. The example that's coming to mind for me is Monsanto's "terminator" gene technology. What would happen if something like that were to be "let loose" into nature? Not to mention all of the small farmers that Monsanto has put out of business because their fields were naturally pollinated by Monsanto crops in other farmers' fields...

And the issue with the "dead zone" around the Louisiana delta is pretty well established as fact.

Word.... Very good point, Wolverine. The 'terminator' gene stuff is way fucked... I read about that some years back.
Good luck convincing Uncle of anything he hasn't already decided...., he seems to have already decided all environmentalists are bullshit. Like trying to get a christian to believe in evolution.... I know trying to get people to cut back on waste is a big profit scheme....

 

[hempknightt]

I couldnt bear to read the whole foliar feeding doesnt work or try feeding a plant just through the leaves it wont work the root system blah blah blahh. STFU and get out! All this thread says is that folair feeding speeds up growth and yield, not that its used to replace the root system. And not even that but its been PROVEN to work not just in the artices ive seen from this thread but in actual WEED PLANT grow ops. Fucking idiots arguing your point and not even thinking grow up already!

Anyways aside from that rant I had an actual question. Ive been foliar feeding my plants but i stopped recently because i have salt buildup on my plants, now ive been spraying them with water for a week but my water is kinda hard, even after getting distilled its still around 70ppms. Does anyone know how to get the salt buildup/hard water spots off leaves?

 

[Uncle Ben]

Blaze be to gawd!

 

[smallttruth]

• "I couldnt bear to read the whole foliar feeding doesnt work or try feeding a plant just through the leaves it wont work the root system blah blah blahh."
  
  

  • "Anyways aside from that rant....."​

    
    
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• Brilliant grammar and well executed argument. You sound like a genius!​

  
  
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Can't read what? This is supposed to be a discussion about foliar feeding, and as such, a point made about the 'limits' of foliar feeding seems perfectly valid. I see a lot of idiotic statements in here that I don't bother to comment on.... Not to mention horrible writing. STFU... brilliant. Sounds like the 'rant' (and don't flatter yourself), of a redneck pot-smoker, apparently feeling aggressive, and no doubt insecure toward all he/she feels threatens his/her 'good ol' boy/gal' sentiments. Or perhaps you are simply so used to 'tweets' that you don't know how to write anymore? I would ordinarily stay away from this sort of back-and-forth, but when someone basically tells me to "shut the fuck up, and get out," I really feel I am justified in telling that individual that they can GFTM.... and with that, and since it is very clear it is no longer about foliar feeding, I am done with this thread. Read a book, and figure out what argument or 'thinking' is, prick.

 

[panhead]

Same here...do you do it as soon as the lights are switched off? I'm using a 9/2/6 NPK fertilizer, this won't damage my leaves if I spray the diluted formula straight on there?

This is not correct,you do not want to foliar spray durring lights out if you can avoid it,the plants building cycles are above ground durring lights on & below ground durring lights off,spraying durring lights off is the least effective way to foliar fertilize.

You start out foliar spraying durring lights on with the reflector raised about a foot on the 1st day of treating the plants,at a foot plants wont burn,then every other day you can lower the reflector after spraying till your distance from canopy to reflector is no closer than 6 inches,any closer & you risk burning the plants.

By slowly decreasing the space between the canopy & bulb you allow the plants time to get used to the conditions of spraying,this hardens the plant off so it will never burn.

I use this method & i spray my plants durring lights on,as soon as im finished spraying i lower the reflectors over the wet plants to where the plant canopy is less than 1 inch away from the glass & no burn.

Also for foliar feeding to be effective ya cant just spray once or twice,you should spray regulary to see large benifits,when trying to correct a nute defiency via foliar feeding its best to spray the plants 2 to 3 tmes each day durring lights on & spray heavily.

When i foliar spray plants in heavy veg i use a 700 ppm nitrogen rich mix,when i spray plants in bud i use 700 ppm bloom,in heavy bud i go as high as 900 pm of P & K,all the figures of ppm i quoted are used on my plants with no harmfull results.

If you want to be creative & do something just for fun try running a hydroponic grow only with foliar feeding & zero ppm of nutes in the water,it works,yeilds are pretty low but when doing something just for fun or learning yeild isnt priority,doing a grow entirely via foliar feeding teaches growers how heavily they can actualy spray the plants ,most growers who are new to foliar treatments way under estimate how much fertilizer is needed or how much the plants can absorb without burning.

Spraying with lights on is a must for max results & less chance of powdery mildew & or blight.

 

[hempknightt]

• "I couldnt bear to read the whole foliar feeding doesnt work or try feeding a plant just through the leaves it wont work the root system blah blah blahh."
  

  • "Anyways aside from that rant....."​

    ​

  ​

• Brilliant grammar and well executed argument. You sound like a genius!​

  
  ​

Can't read what? This is supposed to be a discussion about foliar feeding, and as such, a point made about the 'limits' of foliar feeding seems perfectly valid. I see a lot of idiotic statements in here that I don't bother to comment on.... Not to mention horrible writing. STFU... brilliant. Sounds like the 'rant' (and don't flatter yourself), of a redneck pot-smoker, apparently feeling aggressive, and no doubt insecure toward all he/she feels threatens his/her 'good ol' boy/gal' sentiments. Or perhaps you are simply so used to 'tweets' that you don't know how to write anymore? I would ordinarily stay away from this sort of back-and-forth, but when someone basically tells me to "shut the fuck up, and get out," I really feel I am justified in telling that individual that they can GFTM.... and with that, and since it is very clear it is no longer about foliar feeding, I am done with this thread. Read a book, and figure out what argument or 'thinking' is, prick.

Wow okay to start off I was talking about all the comments about how foliar feeding doesn't work and not creating and discussion like "try feeding a plant through just its leaves see how far that gets you.." or "you have horrible writing omg"<stupid remarks that dont really have any purpose. Im all for people talking about why its not beneficial or even why it doesnt work, but just saying "try feeding a plant through just its leaves see how far that gets you.." doesnt help anyone at all. The fact that I think it works is irrelevant. Now aside from your OBVIOUS loose butthole, I dont really need to defend myself against you cause you already look like an idiot, but.

Sorry if im to high to spell correctly for you Mrs. Loose Butthole, but "sounds like the rant of a redneck pot-smoker feeling aggressive and insecure blahblahblah..." well... you got one thing right about me at least...

Now I dont know who the fuck you are or why you felt so attacked by me, but stop being such a loose butthole, seriously. I had a genuine question regarding foliar feeding and you get your panties all up in a bunch and show everyone your loose butthole going off about my spelling, and writing a bunch of random insults, and yelling about how loose your butthole is... We dont need or want it thank you very much now please take your own advice read a book, and what not. Oh and GTFO. Also you should try getting laid or smoking some more weed cause you need something for that loose loose butthole.

PS Sorry to everyone who now had to read(or skip) MORE of the annoying shit I was talking about in my previous "rant"... Oh and I dont know what GFTM means so yeah....

 

[Wolverine97]

Wow okay to start off I was talking about all the comments about how foliar feeding doesn't work and not creating and discussion like "try feeding a plant through just its leaves see how far that gets you.." or "you have horrible writing omg"<stupid remarks that dont really have any purpose. Im all for people talking about why its not beneficial or even why it doesnt work, but just saying "try feeding a plant through just its leaves see how far that gets you.." doesnt help anyone at all. The fact that I think it works is irrelevant. Now aside from your OBVIOUS loose butthole, I dont really need to defend myself against you cause you already look like an idiot, but.

Sorry if im to high to spell correctly for you Mrs. Loose Butthole, but "sounds like the rant of a redneck pot-smoker feeling aggressive and insecure blahblahblah..." well... you got one thing right about me at least...

Now I dont know who the fuck you are or why you felt so attacked by me, but stop being such a loose butthole, seriously. I had a genuine question regarding foliar feeding and you get your panties all up in a bunch and show everyone your loose butthole going off about my spelling, and writing a bunch of random insults, and yelling about how loose your butthole is... We dont need or want it thank you very much now please take your own advice read a book, and what not. Oh and GTFO. Also you should try getting laid or smoking some more weed cause you need something for that loose loose butthole.

PS Sorry to everyone who now had to read(or skip) MORE of the annoying shit I was talking about in my previous "rant"... Oh and I dont know what GFTM means so yeah....

Quit calling people names.

 

[Uncle Ben]

Knock it off guys.

Bottom line? Foliar feeding works but should never become a substitute for root feeding.

Off topic - WTF is up with this new texting? Every time I use the arrow keys my cursor disappears.

 

[hempknightt]

Knock it off guys.

Bottom line? Foliar feeding works but should never become a substitute for root feeding.

Thats all I was saying

 

[Wolverine97]

Thats all I was saying

Yeah, except it wasn't.