Gastanker
Well-Known Member
He doesn't have a job. Once he has a job he'll be the bad guy and then he'll have to change his mind. Yikes!
Heard an Interesting POV...
- Thread starter Padawanbater2
- Start date
canndo
Well-Known Member
and here we have it - let us worship at the altar of corporations, no matter what bad may come of them we owe them our lives and our fortunes - really? I assure you, that if every corporation and rich person were to dissapear a new group of now highly motivated and actuated individuals would take their place, remove them and the same thing will happen. The rich create nothing but a climate in which the worker can produce, only the worker creates weath.
Gastanker
Well-Known Member
Who doesn't want regulation? Lol. I'm curious on this one.
I am working right now posting from my droid
Look at the current Republican feild
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
Well, if you are reading the forum and posting from your droid then you are not working eh?
GET TO WORK YOU LAZY BUM!!
Gastanker
Well-Known Member
He works for a company and uses cheap electronics created by large corporations... Now I'm confused...
Gastanker
Well-Known Member
They are all for some form of regulation.
Umm, no. the government could make contractual stipulations that prevent all of that from happening. You need to learn more about law.
What good would a parking lot in the middle of a forest in sparsely populated areas do? the logging company would LOSE money if they did that since NO ONE would park there. Logging companies do not clear cut either, they selectively cut swaths because their future profit depends on good stewardship of the forest.
Do you treat your wife good only because it is illegal to beat her or do you treat her well because you love her, respect her and want to have a productive life together? You make it sound like all men would beat their wives if government only removed the regulations that make wife beating a crime.
canndo
Well-Known Member
If left to their own, lumber companies would (and have) created vast monocultures, planting only the most profitable trees and doing so in "stands", all of the trees in the stands being the same age. this is good for logging but very bad for the forest, there is no procession of plant life and little diversity - the forest looks real pretty but is actually a disaster waiting to happen, and happen it has. You seem to think that capitalism confers upon the Corporation some sort of divine wisdom when in fact the company involved sees it's short term profit as the only real goal, in most cases forsaking all others.
AT&T is still around, you meant to say Bell telephone. Regardless i remember their service, superior to todays. They leased me a phone, if i broke it or it quit working they replaced it at no charge, they had operators who would look up anything you wanted for free, service calls were free. Customer service was fantastic and they actually knew a thing or two. Good 'ole Ma Bell, I wish we still had that monopoly around, it was fucking great.
Gastanker
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't ever say that logging companies see in terms of short term profit. Monoculture clear cutting is on the way out and has been banned in many states - it definitely isn't the best practice. Now if only we could get our row farmers to stop.
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
Or they would work within the real world like many forestry companies do...
Why do you guys feel the need to put up straw men to prove that companies only do evil. It makes your arguments so much weaker if you are completely partisan about business being bad for everything and government being the solution. That is known as Marxism and I dont really think we need to head towards it here in America.
canndo
Well-Known Member
But given enough short term financial gain from abusing your wife, one might just consider it, mightn't one? Say a couple of million that you could lay your hands on if she were dead? No, the profit motive as we so clearly see, trumps everything else eventually.
canndo
Well-Known Member
Here it is. The argument always gets to this. "capitalism is mostly self regulating because the corporations want to preserve their "assets", therefore they don't need government interference". And then I point out a reality whereby the commenter states "well.... government takes care of those problems with regulations". So which is it? can forestry monitor itself in its own best interests or does it take government regulation for it to do so?
Some may espouse less FEDERAL regulations, and to replace them with local and STATE regulations instead. other than that i haven't heard any of the Republican field of candidates say they were in favor of eliminating all laws everywhere. Perhaps you didn't know that your particular state has a government and the county you live in has another one and the city you live in has yet another one. Life is complicated i know.
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
Except you wouldnt get a couple of million for killing your wife, you would get life in prison.
A logging company that went against the government would face fines and penalties that would likely eat up any profit.
You act like companies and criminals are the same thing and then you are pissed at companies for not creating jobs. Hypocrite much?
Gastanker
Well-Known Member
They are compelled to increase profits by increasing yields by increasing forest health... Here is my local logging companies approach -
[h=1]Silviculture and Harvesting Methods[/h] At MRC and HRC, we manage our forestlands with a long term goal of restoring the forest to a well-stocked condition with a large variety of sizes and ages of trees. To that end, neither company uses traditional clearcutting as a harvesting method. All harvested stands retain elements that provide perpetual, multi-aged stand structure, and maintain critical ecological refugia (e.g., patches of retained trees, snags, downed woody debris, and undisturbed soil). Silviculture is the science of managing a forest stand for the establishment, growth, and composition of trees to meet the needs of a particular land manager. There are two major classifications of silvicultural management regimes, even-aged and uneven-aged management.
[h=2]Uneven-aged Management[/h] Where our forestlands have well-stocked conifer (redwood and Douglas-fir) forest, our foresters maintain the forest in a well stocked condition. Hardwood competition is kept in check naturally with the overstory dominance of the conifers. Any harvest is balanced with growth using various selection silvicultures and harvesting methods. These methods include harvest of single trees or small groups of trees depending on the species, sizes and ages of the trees. Over time, uneven-aged management will develop and maintain a stand of trees with a wide variety of different ages and sizes. Redwood forests grow particularly well using this regime because they can regenerate and grow in some shade.
Group Selection: In some areas, especially towards the eastern and southern warmer parts of our forestlands, stands of pure Douglas-fir can be found. Unlike redwood, Douglas-fir cannot successfully regenerate under a heavily shaded canopy. Douglas-fir needs more light to reach maturity. The tree crowns will thin out to a point at which photosynthesis is dramatically reduced. Consequently in pure Douglas-fir stands or areas dominated by Douglas-fir, small group openings are created with Group Selection harvest methods to provide light for growth. If designed correctly, this Group Selection method will maintain a successful stand of uneven-aged trees. Group selection is also used in mixed redwood and Douglas-fir forest stands to create larger openings for regeneration. We also use Group Selection when clumps of tanoaks are located in a conifer-dominated stand. The tanoak groups are managed and the areas are then planted with conifer. Group Selection involves harvest of groups of trees ranging from 1/4 to 2 acres.
Transition: Transition silviculture is a selection system used to develop an un-even aged stand from an even-aged stand with unbalanced or irregular stocking. Transition silviculture involves removal of trees individually or in small groups to create a balance of different stand structure and natural reproduction.
[h=2]Even-aged management[/h] The use of even-aged silviculture and harvesting systems on MRC land is used as a transitional strategy and may still occur occasionally on HRC land where restoration harvests are needed. Once tanoak-dominated stands are restored to redwood and Douglas-fir stands, the need for even-aged silviculture will be limited across both companies.
The California Forest Practice Rules (CFPR) require the Registered Professional Forester (RPF) preparing the plans to designate and describe what cutting prescriptions are to be used in areas proposed for harvest. MRC and HRC use a special silvicultural prescription known as Variable Retention (although the CFPRS consider variable retention to be a special prescription – it is generally classified as an even-aged management technique). Variable Retention methods differ significantly from traditional clearcutting in that the retention left in place ensures meeting our goal of reestablishing multiple age classes. The following even-aged silviculture prescriptions are used by both companies.
Shelterwood and Seed Tree: Much of MRC and HRC lands have been harvested at least once in the last century, some acreage two or three times. In the past, foresters depended largely upon natural regeneration from seed drop verses planting trees to reestablish the conifer stocking following harvest. Towards that goal, a small portion of trees were left behind to produce seed for new stands of trees. This method was intended to be accomplished in steps including re-entry into the stand to remove the residual seed and shelterwood trees. In some cases, regeneration from the seed and shelterwood trees was unsuccessful. MRC and HRC re-enter some of these areas to harvest some of the residual trees and to rehabilitate those acres that did not successfully regenerate with manual planting. Additionally, the younger stands, below the residuals, are often thinned to alleviate overcrowding and maintain healthy growing conditions. In cases of re-entry with Shelterwood or Seed Tree silviculture, trees are always retained across the spectrum of sizes and ages including a percentage of the residual trees.
canndo
Well-Known Member
Nothing straw manish about this example - we can find others as well. Business is not evil, profit is not evil but unregulated business can be and often is so long as profit runs contrary to human rights and liberties and the good of the commons.