nirvana vs. Attitude

[JustAnotherHead]

Thanks Nirvana, will wear the Christmas hat they came in to tonights party!

HAHAHA! I have enough blinking Santa hats to pass them out at an office party. I'm addicted to the Weekend Whoppers.

 

[JustAnotherHead]

I don't know why Brick hates Nirvana so much. I'm fuken crushed on some AK48 right now. It's awesome. I'm laughing my ass off to Schindler's List right now..... and i'm Jewish!!!!! That's how strong this shit is. My friends gobble up their version of White Widow from me faster than I can grow it... GONE! Maybe I get stoned easier I dunno. LOL

 

[Wolverine97]

I use both seeds banks regularly. Attitude has a great selection, so so price, so so freebies, fast shipping. So i order my TGA seeds from because they are somewhat hard to find. If you have a problem with your shipment or seeds I tend to think you are pretty much screwed. "Contact Breeder".. oh whatever Attitude. Nirvana has so so selection. ridiculously awesome prices, replaced stuff no questions asked for me, and ship so incredibly fast I swear they are shipping 2nd day air or something. I use both, I prefer Nirvana.

Yeah Nirvana's prices are awesome, but you get what you pay for in most cases.

 

[Brick Top]

I don't know why Brick hates Nirvana so much.

Gee, lets see why. I have smoked since 1968 and grown since 1972 so I have a larger than average comparative base to go by to judge quality. I have hung out on boards like this since they first began popping up and regardless of for some inexplicable reason many on this site loving Nirvana, I have never seen anywhere near as many complaints about any breeder over the years than Nirvana. I could not begin to guess how many sites I have been a member of, a fair number of them no longer exist, but on many of them there were far more complaints about Nirvana than any other breeder/source of beans. Some complaints were like horror stories.

Their seed production is outsourced and they have little to no control over it. Their strains are mostly knockoffs or F2s given other names.

Most people who purchase from Nirvana are either new growers or growers who started out buying seeds from Nirvana and think/thought what they got was high quality, so they stick with Nirvana. But they have little to no comparative base to rely on to judge quality.

Most of those buyers have bean buying budgets that keep them purchasing low priced seeds, so they have no idea of what sort of quality many other breeders offer.

Many are or were new growers when they first picked Nirvana and has mostly smoked low to average grade commercial pot in the past. Compared to that virtually any breeders gear, if grown half well, will seem almost like 'The Holy Grail' in comparison, they they thought they purchased true quality and got it for half the price or a quarter of the price or even less than what other breeders gear would have cost them. So, they also believe they got a bargain.

As I have clearly stated other times when people asked my why I dislike Nirvana, I have never purchased any Nirvana strains. That ALWAYS gets the response of, well, if you never grew any then you don't know what you are talking about. But, I have known many growers in my life, growers that are experienced and skilled enough and who had setups that using the combination of those three things could bring out most or all that any strains genetics had to offer, and a number of them have made the mistake of trying Nirvana strains and I have sampled what they grew. I will not say I have sampled every Nirvana strain, but I have sampled a number of them, including some no longer offered simply because they became seen as old and out of date, and I have never smoked one that I would call better than average and most could not accurately be described as even being average.

Nirvana is to new seed buyers and bargain priced seeds buyers what AOL is to internet providers. The name is well known, the assumption is that if it is so famous that it must have great products, Nirvana markets itself well. But like so many new or bargain price seeking internet users it doesn't take all that long before they realize that the extra they pay to use a local ISP or some other large service is a true value for what the extra brings in return. Newbies flock to Nirvana so for every customer they lose because that customer finally decided to, or could, spend the amount to purchase from a true high line breeder, and in the process learn that they had bee buying crap, there is a newbie to take their place buying Nirvana crap and most times to that newbie they will think they found, well, the Nirvana of breeders.

Some people buy from Nirvana because their budget will not allow them to purchase from a top breeder, so they try all the bargain basement breeders and decide that of all the Wal-Mart grade breeders Nirvana is the best. They will not tell people that the reason they purchase from Nirvana is because they cannot afford to purchase from Mr. Nice Seeds or Serious Seeds or De Sjamaan Seeds of from Dr. Greenthumb or whoever. Their pride will not allow them to say that and their pride will force them to claim that what they get from Nirvana is as good or better than what others get from top breeders. They will defend Nirvana because to them any attack on Nirvana's lack of quality is in a roundabout way an attack on them. They defend Nirvana just as those of them with Rube Goldberg ghetto grow setups will also defend their setups and claim they can do just as well, or even better, than someone else can with a quality setup. Again, pride creates a false reality that is needed to save face, to not appear as if they are purchasing crap and how many have a crap setup to grow with.

But maybe the thing that Nirvana did that most bothered me was when they would threaten dissatisfied customers with ratting them out to their local law enforcement if they did not stop complaining and asking for refunds or replacement beans, or for that fact the originally purchased beans to be sent.

I read the same basic horror story on a number of sites, including this one, and it also happened to someone who I used to know. And if that is not enough to know it happened, in another thread here about Nirvana someone contacted Nirvana and asked them if it ever happened because the member did not believe me and they posted the emails a the person at Nirvana said it did happen. They said that person is no longer working for them, but I would still not ever give a penny to a breeder who when complaints were made a representative of that business would say how they have the customer's personal information and if they do not drop their complaint their information and information about their order will be sent to the customer's local law enforcement.

Some people here refuse to get past a small amount of credit card problem that Attitude had and has forever branded them dishonest and untrustworthy and still to this day warn others to not use Attitude. So how and why can people get past threats made by Nirvana to rat out growers if they do not drop their complaints about never receiving seeds or them being crushed on arrival and wanting replacements or only receiving partial orders and asking for the rest to be sent?

If tomorrow Nirvana was the only source for seeds I would do like I did back in the 70's when there were no sources to purchase seeds from and go back to growing bagseed.

The list of so called breeders grows almost daily, but the list of truly skilled true breeders is not expanding or growing, and if anything it is shrinking. There are some truly skilled breeders out there and then there is a whole lot of seedmakers, ripoff artists and pollen chuckers, and that is the class or category that Nirvana fits into.

Once someone tries true high grade genetics from a truly skilled breeder they learn that Nirvana is in all actuality the opposite of nirvana when it comes to quality. But until that day comes, Nirvana customers will, irrationally, defend Nirvana like a mother grizzly defending her cub. Their defense is irrational because they have no idea how high of quality top breeders offer and they will claim that Nirvana is as good, or they will claim that Nirvana is very close to being as good, or they will claim that while maybe not as good as, the little difference in quality is more than made up for in price thus making Nirvana a better value for your dollar.

In all my years of growing I have never know anyone or read so much as one single message from anyone who said, when I started growing I purchased Mr. Nice Seeds or Spice of Life Seeds or PeakSeeds BC seeds of Sensi seeds or Serious Seeds or Sannie's Seeds or Dr. Greenthumb's Seeds but then I tried Nirvana and found out with true quality is all about, and now, I will not buy from anyone other than Nirvana. But I have heard and read the opposite many, many, many, MANY times.

For all you Nirvana lovers out there, next time you purchase seeds purchase Mr. Nice Seeds Black Widow or G13-Skunk or G13-Widow or La Niña or Mango Widow Master Kush X Skunk or Medicine Man or Shark Shock, and if your a skilled grower, and I do mean skilled and not just think you are skilled, try Mr. Nice Seeds Mango Haze or Neville's Haze or Super Silver Haze or NL5 x Haze or Afghan Haze or G13Haze or Pink Floyd or The Doors or The Stones ... and then see if in all honesty you can come back here and and say that Nirvana's gear is as good or close enough to being as good that for the large difference in price the Nirvana gear is a better value. I know that in all honesty not one of you could make either statement.

Then next move on and try the same thing with another top breeder's gear and see what you can or cannot honestly say afterwards, etc. etc. etc.

Frankly, for all I have heard over the years about Nirvana that was negative or extremely negative and from what I have sampled of Nirvana's gear, that I do know was grown by experienced skilled growers who did not make errors causing the final quality to be less than it could otherwise have been, and then considering the level of quality that can be found from other breeders, for the life of me I do not understand how Nirvana has managed to remain in business.

 

[JustAnotherHead]

Gee, lets see why. I have smoked since 1968 and grown since 1972 so I have a larger than average comparative base to go by to judge quality. I have hung out on boards like this since they first began popping up and regardless of for some inexplicable reason many on this site loving Nirvana, I have never seen anywhere near as many complaints about any breeder over the years than Nirvana. I could not begin to guess how many sites I have been a member of, a fair number of them no longer exist, but on many of them there were far more complaints about Nirvana than any other breeder/source of beans. Some complaints were like horror stories.

Their seed production is outsourced and they have little to no control over it. Their strains are mostly knockoffs or F2s given other names.

Most people who purchase from Nirvana are either new growers or growers who started out buying seeds from Nirvana and think/thought what they got was high quality, so they stick with Nirvana. But they have little to no comparative base to rely on to judge quality.

Most of those buyers have bean buying budgets that keep them purchasing low priced seeds, so they have no idea of what sort of quality many other breeders offer.

Many are or were new growers when they first picked Nirvana and has mostly smoked low to average grade commercial pot in the past. Compared to that virtually any breeders gear, if grown half well, will seem almost like 'The Holy Grail' in comparison, they they thought they purchased true quality and got it for half the price or a quarter of the price or even less than what other breeders gear would have cost them. So, they also believe they got a bargain.

As I have clearly stated other times when people asked my why I dislike Nirvana, I have never purchased any Nirvana strains. That ALWAYS gets the response of, well, if you never grew any then you don't know what you are talking about. But, I have known many growers in my life, growers that are experienced and skilled enough and who had setups that using the combination of those three things could bring out most or all that any strains genetics had to offer, and a number of them have made the mistake of trying Nirvana strains and I have sampled what they grew. I will not say I have sampled every Nirvana strain, but I have sampled a number of them, including some no longer offered simply because they became seen as old and out of date, and I have never smoked one that I would call better than average and most could not accurately be described as even being average.

Nirvana is to new seed buyers and bargain priced seeds buyers what AOL is to internet providers. The name is well known, the assumption is that if it is so famous that it must have great products, Nirvana markets itself well. But like so many new or bargain price seeking internet users it doesn't take all that long before they realize that the extra they pay to use a local ISP or some other large service is a true value for what the extra brings in return. Newbies flock to Nirvana so for every customer they lose because that customer finally decided to, or could, spend the amount to purchase from a true high line breeder, and in the process learn that they had bee buying crap, there is a newbie to take their place buying Nirvana crap and most times to that newbie they will think they found, well, the Nirvana of breeders.

Some people buy from Nirvana because their budget will not allow them to purchase from a top breeder, so they try all the bargain basement breeders and decide that of all the Wal-Mart grade breeders Nirvana is the best. They will not tell people that the reason they purchase from Nirvana is because they cannot afford to purchase from Mr. Nice Seeds or Serious Seeds or De Sjamaan Seeds of from Dr. Greenthumb or whoever. Their pride will not allow them to say that and their pride will force them to claim that what they get from Nirvana is as good or better than what others get from top breeders. They will defend Nirvana because to them any attack on Nirvana's lack of quality is in a roundabout way an attack on them. They defend Nirvana just as those of them with Rube Goldberg ghetto grow setups will also defend their setups and claim they can do just as well, or even better, than someone else can with a quality setup. Again, pride creates a false reality that is needed to save face, to not appear as if they are purchasing crap and how many have a crap setup to grow with.

But maybe the thing that Nirvana did that most bothered me was when they would threaten dissatisfied customers with ratting them out to their local law enforcement if they did not stop complaining and asking for refunds or replacement beans, or for that fact the originally purchased beans to be sent.

I read the same basic horror story on a number of sites, including this one, and it also happened to someone who I used to know. And if that is not enough to know it happened, in another thread here about Nirvana someone contacted Nirvana and asked them if it ever happened because the member did not believe me and they posted the emails a the person at Nirvana said it did happen. They said that person is no longer working for them, but I would still not ever give a penny to a breeder who when complaints were made a representative of that business would say how they have the customer's personal information and if they do not drop their complaint their information and information about their order will be sent to the customer's local law enforcement.

Some people here refuse to get past a small amount of credit card problem that Attitude had and has forever branded them dishonest and untrustworthy and still to this day warn others to not use Attitude. So how and why can people get past threats made by Nirvana to rat out growers if they do not drop their complaints about never receiving seeds or them being crushed on arrival and wanting replacements or only receiving partial orders and asking for the rest to be sent?

If tomorrow Nirvana was the only source for seeds I would do like I did back in the 70's when there were no sources to purchase seeds from and go back to growing bagseed.

The list of so called breeders grows almost daily, but the list of truly skilled true breeders is not expanding or growing, and if anything it is shrinking. There are some truly skilled breeders out there and then there is a whole lot of seedmakers, ripoff artists and pollen chuckers, and that is the class or category that Nirvana fits into.

Once someone tries true high grade genetics from a truly skilled breeder they learn that Nirvana is in all actuality the opposite of nirvana when it comes to quality. But until that day comes, Nirvana customers will, irrationally, defend Nirvana like a mother grizzly defending her cub. Their defense is irrational because they have no idea how high of quality top breeders offer and they will claim that Nirvana is as good, or they will claim that Nirvana is very close to being as good, or they will claim that while maybe not as good as, the little difference in quality is more than made up for in price thus making Nirvana a better value for your dollar.

In all my years of growing I have never know anyone or read so much as one single message from anyone who said, when I started growing I purchased Mr. Nice Seeds or Spice of Life Seeds or PeakSeeds BC seeds of Sensi seeds or Serious Seeds or Sannie's Seeds or Dr. Greenthumb's Seeds but then I tried Nirvana and found out with true quality is all about, and now, I will not buy from anyone other than Nirvana. But I have heard and read the opposite many, many, many, MANY times.

For all you Nirvana lovers out there, next time you purchase seeds purchase Mr. Nice Seeds Black Widow or G13-Skunk or G13-Widow or La Niña or Mango Widow Master Kush X Skunk or Medicine Man or Shark Shock, and if your a skilled grower, and I do mean skilled and not just think you are skilled, try Mr. Nice Seeds Mango Haze or Neville's Haze or Super Silver Haze or NL5 x Haze or Afghan Haze or G13Haze or Pink Floyd or The Doors or The Stones ... and then see if in all honesty you can come back here and and say that Nirvana's gear is as good or close enough to being as good that for the large difference in price the Nirvana gear is a better value. I know that in all honesty not one of you could make either statement.

Then next move on and try the same thing with another top breeder's gear and see what you can or cannot honestly say afterwards, etc. etc. etc.

Frankly, for all I have heard over the years about Nirvana that was negative or extremely negative and from what I have sampled of Nirvana's gear, that I do know was grown by experienced skilled growers who did not make errors causing the final quality to be less than it could otherwise have been, and then considering the level of quality that can be found from other breeders, for the life of me I do not understand how Nirvana has managed to remain in business.

You are definitely pickier than me. To me Cannabis is two things THC and CBD. I get just as "medicated" on 20 dollar seeds as I do on 200 dollar seeds. Although if I gave you a bowl of Mr Nice Black Window and a bowl of some random breeder WW and they were both grown properly under the same conditions. I doubt you would be able to tell me the difference based on taste or high. Or maybe you could, you have been smoking for longer than I've been alive. Weed is not a religious experience to me it's my Happy Hour. Others go to a bar, I go to the bong. That being said I'm growing TGA Vortex, Sannies Killing Fields, along side two Nirvana strains. Maybe the KF and Vortex will make me see unicorns and fly around the room and that would change my mind, I however, doubt it.

 

[Wolverine97]

You are definitely pickier than me. To me Cannabis is two things THC and CBD. I get just as "medicated" on 20 dollar seeds as I do on 200 dollar seeds. Although if I gave you a bowl of Mr Nice Black Window and a bowl of some random breeder WW and they were both grown properly under the same conditions. I doubt you would be able to tell me the difference based on taste or high. Or maybe you could, you have been smoking for longer than I've been alive. Weed is not a religious experience to me it's my Happy Hour. Others go to a bar, I go to the bong. That being said I'm growing TGA Vortex, Sannies Killing Fields, along side two Nirvana strains. Maybe the KF and Vortex will make me see unicorns and fly around the room and that would change my mind, I however, doubt it.

Man, you have a long way to go. Big difference, HUGE. Nirvana White Widow sucks my balls and I still hate it.

 

[Howard Stern]

You are definitely pickier than me. To me Cannabis is two things THC and CBD. I get just as "medicated" on 20 dollar seeds as I do on 200 dollar seeds. Although if I gave you a bowl of Mr Nice Black Window and a bowl of some random breeder WW and they were both grown properly under the same conditions. I doubt you would be able to tell me the difference based on taste or high. Or maybe you could, you have been smoking for longer than I've been alive. Weed is not a religious experience to me it's my Happy Hour. Others go to a bar, I go to the bong. That being said I'm growing TGA Vortex, Sannies Killing Fields, along side two Nirvana strains. Maybe the KF and Vortex will make me see unicorns and fly around the room and that would change my mind, I however, doubt it.

I love Sanies but their KF wasn't to impresive for output. But his Herculies was awesome for yeild and potency. I look at Nirvana and see them for who they are! You don't pay for genetics with them but you get great deals on beans that will put out good weed! The Tude is over priced shit you have to weed through to find good one. Those of you that have been growing for 50 years have obviously gone through all the different strains and found the ones you like. Those of us that have been growing less than 5-10 years haven't had the time to sift through all the shit on the Tude! The tude also sucks DNA's dick trying to push their hermie seeds!

Nirvana is an awesome place for beginers to get their feet wet with growing! Great prices and their strains are very hardy! Once you get a few grows under your belt that haven't had any serious issues that you couldn't figure out I would then suggest you branch out to different strains/seedbanks. The Tude just pushes beans, there is no accountability to the breeder if something goes wrong or they sell you shit beans! Other than you wont shop with them anymore! But they will always be able to rip of someone! At least Nirvana stands behind their strains and if you have any issues they will work with you! Attitude will tell you to get fucked! If anyone wants to shop with the tude knock yourself out! 1 year growing exp or 50 years, if the tude tells ya to go fuck yourself you can pretty much go fuck yourself!

 

[Howard Stern]

Man, you have a long way to go. Big difference, HUGE. Nirvana White Widow sucks my balls and I still hate it.

Nirvanas WW isn't shit but yeah there are ALOT of WW strains out there better! I have some Nirvana WW right now growing and it is marketable mids but nothing to brag about at all!

 

[cues]

As often is the case on here, A couple of 'Veterans' talking the truth and a lot of Newbies who obviously have a financial interest trying to peddle their wares.

 

[Howard Stern]

As often is the case on here, A couple of 'Veterans' talking the truth and a lot of Newbies who obviously have a financial interest trying to peddle their wares.

Well it's silly really cus if you were a true experianced grower you would breed your own strains and make your own beans! Go buy the expensive beans off the Tude that will make you a better grower than me!

 

[Brick Top]

You are definitely pickier than me.

I wouldn't call it pickier. I would put it as I already said it; "I have smoked since 1968 and grown since 1972 so I have a larger than average comparative base to go by to judge quality." What that means is I know the difference between good, average and bad when I smoke it and I do prefer quality breeder genetics over average breeder genetics or low grade breeder genetics.

To me Cannabis is two things THC and CBD.

And both a KIA and a Bugatti Veyron 16.4 will get you from point 'A' to point 'B.' I suppose that would make them equal in your eyes?

Oh, and Cannabis is a whole Hell of a lot more than; "two things THC and CBD." Among the things you left out are CBC, CBN and in some strains THCV.

And of course there's terpenoids, some of which work in conjunction with cannabinoids and enhance them. Here's a partial list.

monoterpenoids (C10H16)

alloaromadendrene (pb)
camphene (pb)
Δ3-carene (pb)
limonene (pb)
trans-linalool oxide (pb)
myrcene (pb)
β-myrcene
cis-epoxy-ocimene
trans-β-ocimene (pb)
β-phellandrene (pb)
α-pinene (pb)
β-pinene (pb)
sabicene hydrate
α-terpinene (pb)
γ-terpinene (pb)
terpinolene
epoxy-terpinolene


monoterpenoids (C10H180)

linalool (pb)
terpinene-4-ol (pb)
α-terpineol (pb)


monoterpene phenols (C10H14O)

para cymene-8-ol (pb)


sesquiterpenoids (C15H24)

α-bergamotene
cis-α-bergamotene (pb)
trans-α-bergamotene (pb)
β-bisabolene (pb)
β-bourbonene (pb)
Δ-cadinene (pb)
γ-cadinene (pb)
caryophyllene oxide (pb)
β-caryophyllene (pb)
isocaryophyllene (pb)
α-copaene (pb)
curcumene
β-farnesene
trans-β-farnesene
germacrene B (pb)
α-guaiene (pb)
α-humulene
epoxy humulene
α-muurolene (pb)
γ-muurolene (pb)
nerolidol
selina-3,7(11)-diene
α-selinene (pb)
7-epi-α-selinene
β-selinene (pb)
γ-selinene (pb)
β-sesquiphellandrene (pb)
spathulenol (pb)
α-ylangene (pb)


aliphatic esters

hexyl butyrate (pb)


hetero compounds

hexyl hexanoate (pb)


phenylpropanes

trans-anethole (pb)


aromatic acids

phtalic acid diethyl ester


misc compounds

α,β-unsaturated ketone


And of course if someone is a med patient on top of the medicinal properties found in many of the elements already mentioned there are flavonoids to consider.

I get just as "medicated" on 20 dollar seeds as I do on 200 dollar seeds.

On the same amount of hits? No way in the world. For one, some strains are known to have 'ceilings' and others are in comparison 'ceilingless.' It would be impossible to get as high or as "medicated" from strains from one of those groups and from strains from the other group.

I have seen true hardened party commandos who could smoke most strains almost all day long brought to their knees and say "I'm to high, I have to go lay down, I need to go to sleep" after two hits of primo pot. It didn't cause them to feel paranoid, and it wasn't an indica that was like a sleeping medication. They were just too high to be able to deal with it.

Although if I gave you a bowl of Mr Nice Black Window and a bowl of some random breeder WW and they were both grown properly under the same conditions. I doubt you would be able to tell me the difference based on taste or high.

Don't fool yourself, because I could. While there was no way for you to know it, you picked the worst strain possible to use for your example. With there being about 40 or 45 knockoffs or F2s of the original White Widow/Black Widow one of the things I have enjoyed doing over the years is trying various fugazi White White strains to see how they compare to the Real McCoy. Many are as far from being equally good as you are from galactic central point.

Or maybe you could, you have been smoking for longer than I've been alive.

That is why I mentioned my years of experience and said how it has given me a much larger comparative base than many have.

If someone has smoked five strains, either from one breeder or from five different breeders they will say how one is the best, how it's the most kickass strain. By the time they're smoked 25 strains their opinion about what is good will almost certainly change, unless by luck one or more of the orignial five were among the very best strains ever. By the time they've toked for 25-years, 30-years, or like me, 43-years, you learn what good truly in and what average truly in and what crap truly is.

Weed is not a religious experience to me it's my Happy Hour. Others go to a bar, I go to the bong.

Getting high is not a religious experience for me either. That is unless you count me saying things like Jesus fucking Christ am I high, or Goddamn, this is some real Roadside Red shit, as religious outbursts.

That being said I'm growing TGA Vortex, Sannies Killing Fields, along side two Nirvana strains. Maybe the KF and Vortex will make me see unicorns and fly around the room and that would change my mind, I however, doubt it.

At least you have Killing Fields going. That will give you one chance to see if something of at least fairly high quality will begin to alter your currently held belief about pot basically being pot.

How about this? When you have toked for 43-years or so how about visting my grave and telling me if you still believe that pot is pot, that the difference between genetics is so minimal that it really doesn't matter what you smoke, that you get just as high, or "medicated," off $20.00 seeds as $200.00 seeds, or if by then you agree with what I am now saying. When you reach that many years of toking experience I will patiently be awaiting your visit where, if you are honest, you will tell me that I was correct some number of decades in the past.

Kirk, out.

 

[Kybudz]

So the beans I ordered from nirvana's crap? Should I throw my plants out the door and just grow comm. Mids . On a budget there not to proud admit it. My shit seems to be looking good . Some people work and it's nice to have a place to order beans . And not have to worry about financal meltdown over few beans.

 

[Brick Top]

So the beans I ordered from nirvana's crap? Should I throw my plants out the door and just grow comm. Mids . On a budget there not to proud admit it. My shit seems to be looking good . Some people work and it's nice to have a place to order beans . And not have to worry about financal meltdown over few beans.

Heck no, don't scrap your plants. (As if you actually meant it and were being sarcastic.)

I fully understand how a budget can influence what someone purchases. When that is the situation what's of utmost importance is knowing which of the lower priced genetics is the best value for your dollar. Then that is what you go with.

The problem I have is with people who proclaim a low grade breeder, some pollen chucker, someone who is nothing more than a seedmaker, as being great, being among the best, of claiming that their product is equal to or almost equal to the the best breeders gear, who by way over-hyping a low level breeder's gear influences someone who is new or still of limited experience resulting in them making a mistake in whose genetics they purchase.

There are inexpensive strains out there that are not top shelf but are still pretty decent. I call them "value strains" and they can be very good options for people on a tighter budget to pick. What you get in the end is not the best but the degree of quality and yield you get in return for how little you paid, they are a good value.

But no entire low-grade breeder line is made up of "value strains." That is why people need to learn about different genetics and know what one or two in one lower-grade breeder line would be a value and what one or two in another lower-grade breeder line would be a value, rather than proclaiming the entire line or most of the line as being a value.

One example is Green House Seeds Lemon Skunk. (NOT the over-hyped hermie prone Super Lemon Haze.) It's not the greatest strain, it's not the most potent strain but it will definitely get you high, but it grows well, it is highly tolerant to varying conditions, puts up with less than perfect treatment, it is tolerant when it comes to fertilizing, it responds well to various growing methods (topping, SCROG, LSTing etc., mold and fungal problems are almost nonexistent, it's so easy to grow that it's a goo first time strain to pick, it's not hermie prone like so much of the Green House Seeds garbage is, it yields well (if you're good it could be close to being able to be considered a commercial strain), it has a good odor and if dried and cured well it is very tasty, and it does not cost much. About the only thing it does not like is heavy pruning. (Let it keep it's leaves.)

It is a decent value, what you get for what little you pay is well worth the price. It's main flaw is you can end up with three different phenotypes, a short squat very indica appearing phenotype, a medium height phenotype that has the appearance of what you would expect from it's genetics and a very sativa looking phenotype that can leap up in flower at an incredible rate leaving you in a position where you can run out of usable growing height. I grew it once to compare it to another breeder's Lemon Skunk and I had two plants that jumped up in height roughly six times during flower, along with also having the other two phenotypes. Amazingly as it might sound, the finishing time hardly varied between them and the high from all the plants was so close to being the same that later you could only guess if a bud came from the most indica appearing phenotype or the most sativa appearing phenotype, which is why I used the word appearing because the difference was almost 100% nothing more than appearance.

So decent values can be found for lesser amounts of money, and there is no reason why people should not take advantage of them, especially if cost plays a key part in their decision making process.

But it is wrong for someone to proclaim that some slightly above average or average, or worse yet, a below average stain is damn near 'The Holy Grail' and that the breeder is fantastic just because the pollen chucking breeder lucked into one or two decent strains out of a line mostly made up of garbage.

 

[Kybudz]

Thank you sir. Just didn't want to waste my time. Let's be honest I smoke to get high no meds just for the head. And I had never ordered and just wanted some good weed. Other than mexi brick all there is around. Don't want to sell just some good smoke for me and my lady. Lol. Did get a DNA genetic lemon skunk liked the name. All this gennetic stuffs new to me.

 

[Wolverine97]

It's the single most important variable in a successful grow, excluding the environment itself.

 

[dirtysnowball]

i had an interesting experience with nirvana. i bought some seeds that wouldnt germinate(very odd for nirvana, and hasn't happened since), so i tried contacting them but they were busy then my computer crashed, then they're serverscrashed later.... so i got high and gave up. then 14 months later i needed some seeds so i decided to contact them again, and i got a reply the same day! so after a few emails and some proof.... they ended up shipping me 40 replacement seeds and a sincere appology. now im the happiest camper ever. im mean talk about customer service they gave me over $100 of seeds, and it really was just a series of bad events.

check out these potent seeds
-white rhino
-ice
-white caste
-pappya
-PPP
-kaya gold

 

[researchkitty]

i hate that i have these and still want to order more seeds!

View attachment 1895574

Holy fucking shit.......... Did someone say glass or dabbers for seeds? Ha!

 

[researchkitty]

By the way I gotta say I've ordered from Nirvana & Attitude before.... Nirvana seeds are usually good beans so it doesnt matter where you get them from. Attitude is indeed cheaper if you order a few packs of ten than Nirvana directly, when you use the RIU member discount code "420" for 10% off. Plus I like my T-Shirt. Nirvana did replace a pack of NYPD seeds that had some problems, they informed me it was a bad batch of them and shipped me a new pack promptly. I've never had to or tried to return to Attitude. I can see how the return policy would make you go Nirvana, its a couple dollars difference not that much either store and if you like the added security of Nirvanas returns versus Attitudes freebies and t-shirts, then go Nirvana. I'll stick with Attitude for now unless Fatboy is making Christmas come early lol

 

[cues]

Well it's silly really cus if you were a true experianced grower you would breed your own strains and make your own beans! Go buy the expensive beans off the Tude that will make you a better grower than me!

Geez, You are one of those that the comment is not aimed at.

 

[cthomegrown]

i always got my beans from world wide marijuana seeds, and never had a problem with germination or delivery. last time i needed beans i ordered them from attitude, just to try something new. i ordered a 5 pack of barneys farm violator kush and only two of the five popped. ive never had one bad bean from wwms let alone 3 in one order. not very impressed.