Problems with micronutrient def. Cant find Organic Nutrients to help (PICS)

[myscrizzlenizzle]

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  • I am growing indoors under a 400 watt HID MH. I am growing from clones and am about 4 weeks into my grow cycle. I am using Roots Organics Soiless Mixture which is basically a 50/50 perlite and coco mix with supplements like kelp and humic acid to promote grow. Plants were under 4 25W 6000k CFL for first 2 weeks. No nutrients, but plants show no deficiencies, i assumed it was getting fed from soil/soiless mix it came in. At week 2 i transplant into 3 gallon pots and put under 400watt MH with a 24/0 grow cycle. I obviously was stupid for waiting 2 weeks into my grow to order nutrients and plants were showing major magnesium and potassium deficiency so i supplemented with 1 tbsp epsom salt per gallon water and 1/4 strength shultz 10-15-10. Plants seemed to be slowly getting better, but by week 3 they were showing major signs of micronutrient defiencies. Each plant is a different strain and each seems to be suffering from a different deficiency. I started Roots Organics nutrient line which includes Buddha Grow, Extreme Serene (Kelp), Ancient Amber (Humic Acid), Trinity (Carbs and Molasses), and Oregonism XL (mycorrhizzea for roots) and fed as instructed by their grow chart. Plants are showing little improvement. I recently got General Organics Biothrive Grow (which has all the micronutrients Roots Organics is missing) and camg+. Week 4 i replaced Buddha Grow for Biothrive Grow and added Camg+ at 10ml/L. That was yesterday and the plants are improving, but still look like shit. I'm used to having lush green plants and i'm assuming an iron deficiency is making them all yellow. The iron in biothrive grow is from iron sulphate and is not cheolated so i know that it will take longer, but am commited to remaining organic. Today i foliar fed with some humic acid and camg+ at 1/4tsp/L. I am tempted to buy Revive from advanced hydroponics but really don't want to resort to that. I have a ph reader that gives me a reading around a high 5 low 6 but mind you it is one of those cheaper ones that you stick in the soil. I am a not a rookie, but this is my first time not using any soil whatsoever in my mix. Obviously i was not prepared for the microdef's that were to ensue. I would extremely appreciate a way to save my girls. They are a month old now and half the size i would like them to be. I am using hard water at around 10 ppm.
    
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[farmerjoe420]

it looks more to me like they are starving for nutrients period. the yellowing def looks like N. you can see from the solo cup pics that the new growth was getting yellow. if i were you i would use fish emulsion and seaweed and see if that helps. im wondering why your using shultz if your organic. if your not worried about staying organic, i would have used an all purpose chem fert with all the traces.

 

[myscrizzlenizzle]

the shultz was an emergency thing. the plants needed something and its all i had at the time, but i have since flushed the soil.

 

[scroglodyte]

acidic or hungry, or both. a little fish/seaweed is sound advice. add some azomite to your mix next time if you are concerned with micros. good luck!

 

[farmerjoe420]

whatever you do move fast. they look pretty affected and time is not on your side. if your not worried about the chems, find a high N fert with all the traces that is soluble otherwise use the fish and seaweed as they are also soluble.

 

[UP & AWAY]

mineral matrix coliments the roots line well for micros

 

[cowboylogic]

Fish Emulsion would make them pretty happy. Also Earth Juice Microblast covers everything except N-P-K-Ca....also I would put the humic acid in the medium and not on the plant. The medium is were it does its thing....

 

[bryon209]

Feed me seemore!!!! Yeah organics arnt used in any greenhouse for a reason they suck the numbers are low and the price tags are high, you are starving those plants and you are not likely to see a "micro nutrient" or even a secondary deficiency unless you are using ro water and some shit ass nutes....Feed your plant and read your plant....that thing needs npk like a mother fuck maybee a little mag too .....

 

[farmerjoe420]

Feed me seemore!!!! Yeah organics arnt used in any greenhouse for a reason they suck the numbers are low and the price tags are high, you are starving those plants and you are not likely to see a "micro nutrient" or even a secondary deficiency unless you are using ro water and some shit ass nutes....Feed your plant and read your plant....that thing needs npk like a mother fuck maybee a little mag too .....

i wouldnt go as far as saying they suck i just think its a matter of having the knowledge and experience to know what to do with the material you have but i do agree that those plants are starving.

 

[vilify]

i think the problem stemmed from no nutes early on. roots organic soil isnt premixed with any nutes as far as the stuff i used to buy.

organics isnt your problem.
i run earth juice organics very successfully.

only def. i run into, are from strains that are npk hungry, and require more than the rest.

 

[farmerjoe420]

i think the problem stemmed from no nutes early on. roots organic soil isnt premixed with any nutes as far as the stuff i used to buy.

organics isnt your problem.
i run earth juice organics very successfully.

only def. i run into, are from strains that are npk hungry, and require more than the rest.

i agree. organics are not the problem as i have had great success with organics.

 

[myscrizzlenizzle]

i regret very much not being prepared from the very beginning. With that said should i've added CaMg+ and Biothrive Grow by General Organics. My question is should i feed more heavily because of the severe deficiencies? I know it's hard to overfert with organics, but i definatly don't want to stress the plant anymore then it already is. Somebody responded time is not on my side and i agree. I leached soil yesterday just in case i was getting a lockout and restarted nutes at half strength. Should i immediatly go back to full strength or even higher then that to compensate for the plants sickness

 

[Afka]

Kelp foliar; problem solved.

 

[farmerjoe420]

imo, i think full strength would be fine. at least now you know you dont have to wait to fertilize when using a soilless mix. what are you feeding with now?

 

[myscrizzlenizzle]

I actually have been applying extreme serene(kelp) by foliar spray. I've only done it about once a week, and unfortunately i don't notice much of a difference. With kelp help with magnesium deficiency or should i add a calmag with that. I am feeding with the Roots Organics line minus buddha grow with CaMG+ and biothrive grow by General Organics. I actually got slight nute burn yesterday after leeching my plants and then giving them 1/2 strength. They still look starved and im attempted to feed them more calcium and magnesium.

 

[myscrizzlenizzle]

heres what they look like. Slight nutrient burn like i said, but i am still tempted to feed more calmag. Please any input would be of great help

 

[bigcarty24]

what's ur ph like...?

 

[myscrizzlenizzle]

Ph is around a low 6, but I am using a cheap one that you stick right on the soil. Today I read that Arizona has the hardest water in the country and that that the high amount of calcium was causing magnesium lock out. Earlier today I flushed with softwater with vanguard+ at 2.5ml/gallon, fed at 1/2 strength and foliar fed with kelp
I won't be back home for another 2 days so I'm really helping this helps. Am I wrong to think the high pom of calcium in Arizona's hard water is so much thy it is the cause of my severe magnesium deficiency? The only thing that's Ben consistent since I started the clones is that I've used hard water to compensate for thecoco absorbing so much calmag. I started the calmag supplement over a week ago and hope now that if there was a lock out it is now remedied. Any ideas?

 

[bigcarty24]

I think your minds in a race to figure out what the problem is... slow down.. n take a toke. I believe its your water. then u adding all this other crap to the situation. Stop foiler feeding right now. I would use a r/o to filter your water... if u cant afford one right away... get ahold of some good tested water some how. Is 6.0 the ph coming from the tap.. Cuz thats low. I believe u should work on the water situation... and just feed a light strength of ur base nutrients.. along with some kelp. and when using R/O.. u have to use CalMag.. but then youll have the right proportions of CalMag. Jst my opinion

 

[myscrizzlenizzle]

I flushed with. Softwater with camg + at a concentration of 2.5ml/l. I agree with you that the problem was my water. Apparently Arizona has a mineral concentration in their hard water of over 10 gpg (grains per gallon). I orginslly thought hard water would be better to water with, I had not thought of the fact that the mineral concentration would be so high as to cause a lock out. Will flushing with softwater supplemented with camg + remedy the damage I did with the hardwater? Also I tool the advice of stopping foliar feeding but what is the reason for that. If I am still experiencing lockout wouldn't the only way to. Feed be through the leaves? I am begining to think my shitty ph meter is off. I've been relying on the understanding that coco keeps ph at a stable range. I've also heard that organic nutrients like GO and roots organics you don't have to adjust ph. Is this assumption correct? Also what is the difference between softqater and reverse osmosis water? Thanks in advanced.