Shed Grow, Looking for Advice

[sudodaemon]

This is my second grow... my first grow was interrupted (learning) when I learned that water temp in a DWC system is uber important (root rot)... I was renting a house in south florida with a fucked up AC... couldn't cool the house lower than 81 degrees in the summer, so obviously my water temps were high as shit, and all my plants died... So, new house, new state, and this house came with a shed... sweet... So I'm setting up another grow and wanted to get some advice to help me better and make sure nothing goes horribly wrong this go around.

Here is a run down of everything in the pics.

FAR left - is a de-humidifier that I had no use for that I converted into a water chiller. Works pretty damn well.
Middle - Reservoir for water being chilled by de-humidifier
Right - DWC System - Has 3 air stones in it and has a water pump in it that cycles the water through a tube that is sitting in the Reservoir VERY slowly, and back into the DWC bucket. Water is not pulled from the Reservoir, water just runs through a tube that is sitting in the Reservoir so it chills and return back to the DWC bucket. I've run a couple test and it chilled the water pretty well (10 degrees), I plan on changing the tubing that runs through the Reservoir to a stainless steel wort chiller... like this one http://www.amazon.com/Super-Efficient-Stainless-Steel-Chiller/dp/B004D4QPQW

I plan on only growing 1-2 plants at a time. I know I need to add more reflective crap on the wall, just need to get to the store for that. My main question is the type of HPS lighting I should use. I'm going to start everything off with CFL, but I plan to switch over the HPS... I would get HPS lighting right now, but I JUST moved, and money is a bit tight... I just need about 1 month to get the money together for HPS lighting, so I figured I'd ask now. I've seen people say that for one plant you need about 150w, and every plant over that add another 50w... so would a 250w system work well for me? I have also seen a lot of people say to just get a 600w system... As you can see with my system, the max I could ever do is 3 plants, so lets keep that in mind. I really don't think I'll ever do more than 2 though.

First grow is just going to be some bullshit seeds, after the first successful grow I have some pineapple chunk seeds I'm going to grow, I just want to get a successful grow under my belt before I go onto "real" seeds.

Any other suggestions? I'm open to almost anything other than telling me to start over lol.

Also, I do have a large box fan that will be used to help cool things down. There is also a window in this shed that I have put an intake and exhaust fan in... When it's all set up it will pull air from outside and push air out from inside to give good ventilation.

 

[FootClan]

Ok so what is the grow space?? 4x4? 3x3? 5x5?? how big do you intend to grow these two plants.....must know this before choosing light.......also i your intake and out take both right next to eachother?? you said you made an intake and an outake in the window but that would suggest that both are next to each other which is not right eather......

 

[wheels619]

This is my second grow... my first grow was interrupted (learning) when I learned that water temp in a DWC system is uber important (root rot)... I was renting a house in south florida with a fucked up AC... couldn't cool the house lower than 81 degrees in the summer, so obviously my water temps were high as shit, and all my plants died... So, new house, new state, and this house came with a shed... sweet... So I'm setting up another grow and wanted to get some advice to help me better and make sure nothing goes horribly wrong this go around.

Here is a run down of everything in the pics.

FAR left - is a de-humidifier that I had no use for that I converted into a water chiller. Works pretty damn well.
Middle - Reservoir for water being chilled by de-humidifier
Right - DWC System - Has 3 air stones in it and has a water pump in it that cycles the water through a tube that is sitting in the Reservoir VERY slowly, and back into the DWC bucket. Water is not pulled from the Reservoir, water just runs through a tube that is sitting in the Reservoir so it chills and return back to the DWC bucket. I've run a couple test and it chilled the water pretty well (10 degrees), I plan on changing the tubing that runs through the Reservoir to a stainless steel wort chiller... like this one http://www.amazon.com/Super-Efficient-Stainless-Steel-Chiller/dp/B004D4QPQW

I plan on only growing 1-2 plants at a time. I know I need to add more reflective crap on the wall, just need to get to the store for that. My main question is the type of HPS lighting I should use. I'm going to start everything off with CFL, but I plan to switch over the HPS... I would get HPS lighting right now, but I JUST moved, and money is a bit tight... I just need about 1 month to get the money together for HPS lighting, so I figured I'd ask now. I've seen people say that for one plant you need about 150w, and every plant over that add another 50w... so would a 250w system work well for me? I have also seen a lot of people say to just get a 600w system... As you can see with my system, the max I could ever do is 3 plants, so lets keep that in mind. I really don't think I'll ever do more than 2 though.

First grow is just going to be some bullshit seeds, after the first successful grow I have some pineapple chunk seeds I'm going to grow, I just want to get a successful grow under my belt before I go onto "real" seeds.

Any other suggestions? I'm open to almost anything other than telling me to start over lol.

Also, I do have a large box fan that will be used to help cool things down. There is also a window in this shed that I have put an intake and exhaust fan in... When it's all set up it will pull air from outside and push air out from inside to give good ventilation.

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if u use a 250 u will limit what u can do later with it. if u try to expand a 250 wont cover anywhere near what a 1000 or a 600 will cover. if u dont ever plan on going bigger than 2 or 3 smaller plant id say go for it. u can get a digital 600 and dim it and still have decent equipement if u feel like expanding. and from the size of that room from the looks u shouldnt need an exhaust fan yet. even if its a good idea. the intake needs to be low and the exhaust needs to be high to properly set it up. but use a window for fresh air and just use a box fan to cool the air between the light and ur plants and to keep mold and mildew away from ur babies.

 

[sudodaemon]

As for the grow space... The shed is a good size, about 13ft by 13ft... The space I want to grow in though is about 3ft x 3ft x 6ft (tall)... I'd like to keep it to about 2 plants per grow, no more than 3... If I limit myself to that I won't get greedy... as in, less chance of getting caught. As for the intake and exhaust... I have two windows in the shed, on opposite walls... Right now I have a fan in just one of the windows, the window fan has two fans in it though and I can set it to either both fans intake, both fans exhaust, or split the fans to where one intakes and one exhausts... If it's a bad idea to have it intake and exhaust out of the same window I can simply get another onf of those fans for the other window and have it exhaust/intake out of that window... I was thinking of leaving that window empty though in case I needed to get a portable AC unit for the summer... I'm in Central GA, so I know in the summer it gets hot... Not sure how well fans will cool down a shed if its 100 degrees outside... Would fans blowing all around the plants keep it cool enough in the summer? These are the things I'm trying to figure out before I actually start...

Also, as for the size of the plants... how about 4 ft tall... I'm thinking that would be the ideal size with the vertical space I have... maybe a bit shorter so it's not too close to the lights.

 

[FootClan]

Ok so for a 3x3 space you will want atleast 400w light but if your going to get a 400w might as well just get the 600w cause its almost twice the lumens with almost half the watts.... Also growing in shed is the most expesinsve way to grow... To grow in a shed outside properly you will need a A/C, dehumidifyer, Heater, hepa filter, etc etc and most likey air cooled lighting system........ So just know that in the summer your shed will probably bee 100 plus degrees without A/c and in winter it will probably be 60 below in your shed so like i said if you think your just going to put plants in a wooden shed outside and throw a light over it and think your temps will be ok your in for a rude awakining......

 

[sudodaemon]

Was already looking at an air cooled lighting system... Would I really need an A/C AND a Dehumidifier? I thought when an AC unit ran it also took humidity out of the air at the same time... Every AC unit I've ever used worked like that. Heater is understandable during winter, would only be needed at night though correct? Wouldn't the lights give off enough heat during the day? At night here it dips to like 28 degrees, but during the day spikes up to 70's most of the time... Trust me, I know it's not going to be the most effective way to grow, being in a shed... but growing in my house isn't an option... People and kids in and out of my house a lot, I need to keep the smell outside...

What is the hepa filter for? The smell?

 

[sudodaemon]

To add... this is the CHEAPEST place I've ever lived (electric bill)... When I lived in south florida my electric bill IN THE WINTER was always inbetween $300-$450... My bill last month at this house was $100... So even if I have to add an ac unit, etc to the shed, I doubt it would come close to the bills I had in south florida, north carolina, OR maryland... Just saying, I'm not concerned too much about the electricity output... I already have a portable AC unit as well... Just need to know what I'll need to have a decent harvest.

 

[FootClan]

lol did i hear you right drops to 28 at night?? holly shit you are going to need a heater for sure and a good one..... Ok if you run "open loop" then you can get away with no Duhumidifyer... So you are going to want to run your lights at night and make your dark period in the day time..... there is no way a 400w or even 600w is going to heat at shed outside in 28 degree weather.... and you can get away with 70 degrees in day time if but its hard to beleive temps get to 70 in day if they drop to 28 at night......... You need to insulate and drywall that shed that will help the exstreme temp changes you have going on.....I live in cali and i grow in a shed dissattached to the house and let me tell you that its alot harder to regulate temps in a shed outside...... If your going to run an "open" loop then that means you will be bringing in outside air and if your bringing in 28 degree air into your grow box you are going to have a serious problem bro.....I had a hell of time keeping my shed warm enough and that was in 50 degree weather so i just dont see how this is going to work very well for you...........If it were me i would insulate and drywall that shed.....Then i would have no intake and no outtake (closed loop) i would get a window Ac unit, a dehumidifier a heater and supplement Co2 with a propne burner or Co2 exchanble tank... This way you arent bringing in 28 degree air in winter and you can maintain your grow room atmospher...

I realize that you will not do this and even if you wanted to you probably dont have the money or the know how to even put it togeather properly but its how you should have it really.........

Your going to have major problems bro.....Your trying to grow as if your inside in a warm temp controlled closet but your not and you cant grow productivily in a wooden shed with one light in 28 degree weather its just not going to happen....

 

[FootClan]

even if you get a heater your running an Open loop system and any heated air your heater creates will just be exhausted out right away.. And if you dont run your exhaust then you wont get any fresh c02 so your in a rock and a hard place...Your choice is to run your exhaust and bring in fresh Co2 but then you will have too cold of temps because you are bringing in cold air with the Co2 or you can turn your exhaust fan off so your light can heat up the air in the shed to proper temps but if you do that then you wont have any fresh Co2 so it becomes a game of damned if you do and damned if you dont.........This is why i say Closed Loop system for a outdoor grow shed no air in, no air out.......

Also in the winter outside you will have Humidity problems most likely.....Yes a A/c will duhumidify the air but what about winter?? winter is when you need it most so AC wont help your humidity problems in winter... also a dehumidifyer wouldnt do much anyways because just like the heater any dehumidified air would just be exhausted right out as soon as your Dehumidifier spits it back out..


Basicly what i saying is its hard to run ANYTHING on an open loop system weather its Ac, heater or dehumidifyer because you always exchanging the air in the room so your ac, heater, etc etc are always working to fix the air but it cant because the air is being exchanged faster then your ac, heater can work........make sense yet?? are you starting to see what your up against now??

 

[sudodaemon]

After thinking more about this I think I'm going to move this into the closet in my "man cave" room. My wife wanted to use that closet but I just informed her that wasn't going to happen. I would have to insulate the shed, etc... If I had a couple grand to blow I'd do it, and it would be the best place to grow, but for now I think I'm going to move this to a closet... That way I don't have to insulate, etc... Thanks for all the help and info. I'll take pics later tonight or tomorrow of the closet im moving it into so you guys can help with lighting for that.

 

[wheels619]

Ok so for a 3x3 space you will want atleast 400w light but if your going to get a 400w might as well just get the 600w cause its almost twice the lumens with almost half the watts.... Also growing in shed is the most expesinsve way to grow... To grow in a shed outside properly you will need a A/C, dehumidifyer, Heater, hepa filter, etc etc and most likey air cooled lighting system........ So just know that in the summer your shed will probably bee 100 plus degrees without A/c and in winter it will probably be 60 below in your shed so like i said if you think your just going to put plants in a wooden shed outside and throw a light over it and think your temps will be ok your in for a rude awakining......

im in cali and i just built a wooden shed outside. no dehumidifiers even with me living right on the beach. just h202 bath ur shit before u dry and cure ur shit to get rid of all the nasty shit u dont wanna smoke from humidity. my shed gets to the low 40s at night and i have no issues with cold temps. i dont use one but all u would need in a 10x10 space is a space heater from walmart to keep a room warm enough in winter even if it was 10 degrees outside. as for summer i have a 1000 in a 6x4x6 shed vented with a 6 inch 400+ cfm fan. in his case id just go with a simple window mounted ac unit. bang u got a setup.

 

[wheels619]

also the 70s is perfect temps during the day in winter for u if im correct? u wouldnt even need the heater during the afternoon.

 

[FootClan]

After thinking more about this I think I'm going to move this into the closet in my "man cave" room. My wife wanted to use that closet but I just informed her that wasn't going to happen. I would have to insulate the shed, etc... If I had a couple grand to blow I'd do it, and it would be the best place to grow, but for now I think I'm going to move this to a closet... That way I don't have to insulate, etc... Thanks for all the help and info. I'll take pics later tonight or tomorrow of the closet im moving it into so you guys can help with lighting for that.

Wise Choice Grass Hopper......... Let me be the First to Rep you..........

 

[FootClan]

im in cali and i just built a wooden shed outside. no dehumidifiers even with me living right on the beach. just h202 bath ur shit before u dry and cure ur shit to get rid of all the nasty shit u dont wanna smoke from humidity. my shed gets to the low 40s at night and i have no issues with cold temps. i dont use one but all u would need in a 10x10 space is a space heater from walmart to keep a room warm enough in winter even if it was 10 degrees outside. as for summer i have a 1000 in a 6x4x6 shed vented with a 6 inch 400+ cfm fan. in his case id just go with a simple window mounted ac unit. bang u got a setup.

I guess it just depends on what one considers " issues" If my grow temp was in the 40's id consider that a major issue lol...... And like i said Even if you put a space heater in the shed you are still exchanging the air with new COLD air forcing the heater to reheat the new cold air and as its trying to reheat the new cold air its already blowing it out and bringing in new cold air...Its called passive intake so as long as that fan is on its blowing the warm air out and sucking in cold air......

Its fundamentaly flawed and anyone who dosent see that just dosent understand what there doing and why there doing it.......

Like my some of my friends say dont " dont i need fresh air" i say "air"? what do you mean air?? Plants need curtin things in the air not just air and if you dont even understand why your doing something it makes it hard to see the big picture.....

so in closing if your temp are in the 40's and you dont think you have a problem then that in itself is a problem lol......

 

[FootClan]

also the 70s is perfect temps during the day in winter for u if im correct? u wouldnt even need the heater during the afternoon.

He said Spikes up to 70 so its safe to say alot of the time it would be colder....... and he would have to have his light on at night to help battle frezzing temps meaing his dark period would be during the daytime..

 

[sudodaemon]

There are some days here in the summer where it hits 110... Having to insulate that shed, put a portable ac unit in it, etc... I would EVENTUALLY do all of that, but right now I'm not looking to spend a grand in setting up a grow room. When I really learn how to grow then I move up to a fancy shed that's insulated, vented properly, etc... I'll just stick this in my closet and I should have a successful grow. My last attempt at growing only stopped because I couldn't solve my water temp issues fast enough and my plants suffered from root rot. Now that I have a "water chiller" I shouldn't have to worry about root rot and I should be good to go. I'll set the closet up tomorrow and take some pics. I'll also put the dimensions so any lighting help can be given. That should be the only thing left I need... I'm going to start with the CFL's I have though until i get the money for proper lighting.

 

[FootClan]

Just remember you still need Air exchange in your closest so you will still need to bring in Co2 from fresh air and exhaust stale co2 depleated air out along with humidity.... This will mean cutting a hole someplace in your closet( ceilling being best) also if you dont want to have the closet door open during lights on for fresh air since temps can quickly rise in a small closet grow you should consider cutting a square inlet somwhere low on ajoing closet wall and you can buy a standerd home vent in many different size and put the grill/vent in the vent you cut so it looks like a normal house central ac/heating vent.... This is what my buddy does in his master closet.... He cut a hole into attic for venting out old hot air and then cut a big square inlet next to his closet door then put a square disposibal hepa filter on the inside of the inlet to filter out molds and bugs...


If you just close the door to your closet yes some air will be sucked in under door crack but that might not be enough to cool a closet so its something to consider......

 

[sudodaemon]

Closet Door will always be open... This room is rarely even gone in... I would go in it more but all it has right now is a shit load of video games and a turtle tank, no tv, etc... As for fresh air what is the best way to accomplish this? Open closet in a 14x14 room... One window right next to closet actually... but having that window open on a 100 degree day is not possible.

 

[sudodaemon]

Also, for hot air venting... I just need to cut a hole into my attic above where my plants will be? How big of a hole?

 

[FootClan]

Ok if the closet is in an empty room just leave that room door open or at very least leave the closet door open but best if you leave the room door open during lights on that should suplpy you with enough Co2... When lights are off both doors can be closed...

You could use your window for venting in cool air in the winter and exhausting hot air Out in summer...... This might take a little DIY skills to do this right....wood clue paint etc etc... Or can use cardboard and tape too. If you wanna know more about that idea let me know......

For your exhaust hole in the ceiling you will want to cut a hole usually the size of the ducting and fan your using.....So usually a 6" hole and you will want a 6" inline fan(depending on wattage of light) for your exhaust.

If you can get into attic i would put the fan in the attic and just let it sit from the inside through the hole you cut....It tapers down so the fan will sit in a 6" hole without falling through...... This will help with noise and save you room to work in the closet........