The fundamental differences that Timmahh and I (and I and others) have isn't about different end goals. It's about how to get there. Look at the "must vote no on 4bills thread"..I simply suggested a different approach...Improve the bills rather than stop them, and was violently attacked. At the end of the day, which strategy worked better? Same with the section 4 and 8 debate. The wording isn't published yet...Timmahh is on the aggressive side..encouraging people to take full advantage of the law as written. I'm just saying..you know..I'd rather be safe than sorry. I almost guarantee that the wording will say for section 8 to apply, you will need a dr. letter BEFORE they catch you..or the defense will be void. The simple logic is that if you don't have a DR letter, How did you know your condition qualifies? You can't self diagnose.
The other issue people have with me, is that I simply don't buy into the "martyr" game. The vast majority of the cases at trial WERE valid arrests. Don't like seeing people arrested, but it is going to happen. My advice is don't put yourself out there to be the next test case. Head down till the shelling stops.
I post a dispensary model...attacked...no one wants to shape a bill...and I just don't understand that.
Guys, I am who I say I am. Yes, I was a high paid Exec..Yes I did lose everything when I became Ill..But I still think like that Executive that I once was..The Disease has ravened my body, not my mind. Most of my points of view reflect on how the opposition thinks, and how to negotiate and win with them. Just Like when I was that Exec, trying to make deals with other execs. Make no mistake, Our AG is an executive thinker and a formidable opponent. He is way anti medical cannabis. But he is going to be beaten through debate and well written pro med cannabis bills. Not through protesting and cry's of unfairness.
One of the first laws of battle is, Know thy opponent. You simply have to think like the opposition in order to anticipate and defeat their agenda.
bob, please understand. I have been to all of the hearings, I have spoken with nearly every Rep on the Judiciary, and Task force, mostly via emails, but some in person, and on phone conversations.
I understand how negotiations work, i really do. What you have to do is look at it from my eyes, to understand where I am coming from
We have passed a Hamburger. The State would rather feed us Spam, or maybe even popcorn. We have go in and tell them WE (the MMJ Community at large) will settle for nothing less than steak and lobster, so at the end of the day, we end up with our hamburger. Maybe without pickles, or onions, but with tomatoes, lettuce, katsup and Mayo. If we play our cards right, we can maybe even get Fries (out door grows, 2 yr certs) with that.
But bob, as a cummunity of Cannabis users, when you come into any thread, and proclaim nearly everyone but you is a criminal, and SHOULD be locked up in jail, when 99% of the membership here are Pro FULL Legalization, you MUST realize how that leads to people directly attacking your POSITION. Not you, this is online, no one can really attack you. the old adage of Sticks and Stones, kind of comes into play. But you were not saying, yes, they seem to be trapped in one of the many grey areas alot of folks feel their is in the Act, you were saying your the only legal member here, and pretty much the rest of us are fucking criminal scum, akin to being a baby raper.
Now, I don't know about others, but I am betting most do not believe they are criminals, and they are right.
as noted in the 1st few parts of the MMM Act, fed and state stats clearly shows about 99% of all cannabis arrests, are for possession of amounts in a huge majority of these cases are for an ounce of cannabis and most of the time less.
So when someone that claims to be a patient of our Act, comes around any forum and says all you criminals are making me look like a criminal too, then you openly admit to actual criminal activity of growing cannabis prior to our Act passing (criminal activity on a local and state level) and then further incriminate yourself by stating you had a buddy transport cannabis across multiple state lines to california to be tested, when we have testing facilities here in Mi, leaves one many unanswered questions and makes one go "HMMMmmmmmMH? rememmber transporting cannabis, State med card or not, across state lines is a federal offense, a gram or a ton.
the part about sec 8 we dissagree on bob, appears to be the timing of the cert. BS has been nailing the issue that you must have a dr rec, or your just a dirty drug dealer. The Petition passed around on 2008 summer, and the ballot we voted on, on Nov 7th, 2008, both were very clear in the Act would offer protection for anyone arrested with cannabis for simple possessions of small amounts of cannabis, and it would allow the citizens of the State of Michigan, the opportunity to offer an affirmative defense to a jury of their peers. But that is not what is happening.
Please read this scenario, as it is happening, and can easily happen to you.
Tomorrow, your in your basement grow area working. you hear a smash, crash up stairs. do you lock your door, secure the area, or just run upstairs tring to see what the hell all the commotion was. Unfortunately for you, it was LEO performing a raid.
Now your fully in compliance, you have 7 plants, one hanging in cure, and 1 oz of dried ready to use flowers. fully under limits.
BUT, when they (LEO) smashed thru your door, and you didnt take the 2 or 3 minutes to lock up before you went upstairs to see what all the commotion was, you are now NOT in compliance, simply because the door was not locked on your grow door.
but when you ran upstairs you had no idea what was going on, for all you know it could of been your spouse hitting the floor from having a heart attack or a stroke, but it was a RAID instead. So, are you guilty of a high crime against the State, and be sentenced to up to 14 yrs in some cases/counties, or should you be told, be sure to lock that door. we understand you left it open because we kicked your doors in, but your ok, stay that way and everything will be good?
Now, if you live in say Oakland County, what are your chances of just being told< Gee sorry Mr bob, we made an error, and thought you were a criminal, sorry about the doors and the mess, good luck with that?
so when you say people like that are criminals, i am pretty certain I am not the only one that takes some offense to comments like that.
Im just saying the flaming your took was as deserved as the flaming I took when it involves RIU threads. but there is one difference, and that is I get shit for being a MOD on the 3MA. Much of that is not because Im a Mod on the 3MA, but because Joe is the CEO. Im a mod, hes a CEO, i have ZERO control, and at this point, it would seem Joe doesnt need the input from much of his staff at the moment. I know Joe is disliked, but To dislike me, or attack me, simply for being invovled with the Medical cannabis community, others have an issue with, is kind of like hating a car, because you doing 80 on 4 flat tires....
I understand alot of people have an issue with Joe, but that is Joes issue, not mine though it was made to be mine much of the time im here. How is that right?
There is a lot of background info i know, and a lot many of you know as well, but we certainly dont all know the same tidbits of info. IF we did, we would all be on the same page already and this would be easy breezy. Reality is its not easy breezy, and BS, LEO and the State of Michigan would love to see the MMM Act just go away all together. Not all of them, but a vast majority of them.
like it or not, people are being arrested for an unlocked closet door in a locked basement. Simple things that would equate to a burnt out headlight are winding up with people serving sentences of yrs and more. For a victimless crime no less.
I cant run around and find every little snipped of into to prove every little post or bit of info i make. No one can or should be expected to, and still expected get everything needed to be done in one day, done in our own pesonal lives. Beside, there is a LOT to be said for self responsibility and getting yourself education to the actual state of affairs. Hey a yr ago, I was an extatic Michigan Medical Marihuana Patient, Finally ready to stop looking over my shoulder for using cannabis as my meds. But as 2010 went on, and BS' and RS' to create a new class of criminal, the medical marihuana patient, I become involved with the movement. as I learned more, and got more involved and realized the amount of corruption, the amount of citizens being persecuted for using cannabis, and are not allowed to even make mention, Um Jury, I Am on the Michigan Medical Marihuana Registry, than I was just plain pissed.
is it happening in every county? no, but many of them, likely over 1/2. I can be ok in one county and a criminal doing 14 yrs in the next and so can you.
It really does appear to me we are moving quickly toward a state of Government tyranny and persecution, not seen since late 1930s Germany...Wont be long as we will need to have our papers to show at every county line, that authorizes us as humans, and Citizens. Forget about the cannabis....
That is not what our founders, nor what my family as an American Family have supported and died for in this country since Plymouth Rock. Yes my family does go that far back here in the states, though my Immediate family migrated over (both great great grandparents were settling the Ohio Valley before that area was even considered continental.
Im a pretty staunch Conservative, but I am an Independent party voter. I ll fight for the constitution of our State, and our Country, because it is the document that build a once free and prosperous recent society.
Just like I dont need to pay 80.00 an hour for a plumber, i can fix it myself. If i get shot, get a knife in the back, wrap my car around a telephone pole, IF i live, yes I need a DR. but that is an entirely different scenario.
the issue is Self diagnosing, and why can you not? because the government says you must pay someone to do that for you. Its my body, its my health, its my choice. I dont need a doctor to Educate me on what I am already educated on. I dont trust most Drs, as they want to feed you poisons, which have time and time again shown to kill your body and you. I dont need drugs that use my body, I need a drug my Body uses. and cannabis is that drug. No one should have a right to tell me what to do with my health, what works, what doesnt, and what is Socially ok for me or you to use in our own medical care.
Bob, i can relate with your financial losses. My eldest sister gratuated form FSU at 21, with a BA in Computer Science. She basically wrote here own ticket thru the 70s, 80s and 90s. here last position, she made just under 500,000 a yr, and had been at the place for over 10 yrs, and had accepted the position (lower one) for a starting salary of 310,000 a yr. She had no children, and it was her, her husband, and 2 chows in a 3800 square foot home in the Plano area of Tx. Her husbands 1st wife passed away, no children, both make 6 figures, and his dad is in Tx oil. so when he and my sister got married, they had well over a million an yr between the two of them in salary alone. with in the 18 to 20 months between the time my sister was diagnosed, and she died, her and her husband were nearly 2.5 million in debt from 20ish months of fighting cancer.
People make no mistake, on any level, health care is only about the bottom dollar. Cannabis will be no different. but that does not mean, we as citizens have to roll over and let the State and the Government ass fuck us without any KY, just because we let them.
IF we do just roll over let them violate us more, then we deserve the most vigorous ass fucking the government will give us.
