Gnats/Cooking SuperSoil

[semor90]

My SS has been cooking for 6 days outside in a trash can with the lid ON. I went out to check on my soil and mix it around this morning and I seen a few little gnats and a fly looking type deal with silver shinny wings.Is their anything I can do or add to my soil to keep these fuckers form getting worse ? will these POS bugs cause more problems if i don't take care of them asap?? Thanks for the Help!

 

[SpicySativa]

Two soil drenches (about 7 days apart) with azamax zapped my gnat problem. I'd just give an Azamax drench at or soon after transplant. The plants didn't seem to mind at all.

 

[Rrog]

I add the following to my soil to keep pests away. Each has a different function.

Steinernema nematodes
BTI Dunks (Bacillus Thuringensis Israelensis)

Also Diatomaceous Earth
Crab Shell Meal
Neem Seed Meal

I use Supersoil and haven't seen a single pest since I started doing this.

 

[semor90]

thanks for the feedback. Im thinking i'm gonna wait a few days let the soil dry up. Then if the gnats are still present mix in some neem seed meal.

 

[SupraSPL]

thanks for the feedback. Im thinking i'm gonna wait a few days let the soil dry up. Then if the gnats are still present mix in some neem seed meal.

They definitely won't go away on their own. Azamax is the active ingredient in Neem Oil that will do the job.

 

[Rrog]

Neem meal only isn't going to cut it. Neem is just a part of the system.

Personally, I like a more natural solution. I don't consider Azamax natural.

 

[SpicySativa]

Natural enough for me. It's OMRI certified. Not compatible with nematodes, though...

 

[Gastanker]

Neem meal only isn't going to cut it. Neem is just a part of the system.

Personally, I like a more natural solution. I don't consider Azamax natural.

I'm curious as to how you find BT 'natural' but not Azamax.

 

[Rrog]

You can take plant products and make them quite toxic, OMRI or no OMRI. If there's a gentler, more natural way, I explore that first.

The BT is a natural bacteria. Azamax is not found in nature. Indiscriminate.

 

[scroglodyte]

drench pots right after filling them, instead of trying to drench whole pile/can/barrel of SS. neem oil solution, Azamax. once in the grow area create conditions unfavorable to them.

 

[Gastanker]

You can take plant products and make them quite toxic, OMRI or no OMRI. If there's a gentler, more natural way, I explore that first.

The BT is a natural bacteria. Azamax is not found in nature. Indiscriminate.

BT is not commonly found in nature all over plants (aside from our GM crops)... Same with Spinosad which very similar. Azamax is a brand name. The active ingredient azadirachtin is found in nature... naturally... that's there they get it from. Of course silimar to BT you don't naturally see it all over plants.

I would warn you with using too much neem cake directly in the soil. More and more scientific documentation is coming out showing more negative effects to beneficial soil organisms than positive effects against pests.

 

[Rrog]

Think of the microlife as your army. If they're already in and ready, they'll repel invaders fiercely. If your soil is dead or injured, it's open for infestation. A strong dose of chemical will at the very least stun the microlife and this might take weeks to recover.

If instead, you inoculated the soil with beneficial microbes that help you (nematodes, BTI, fungus) they set up camp and grow in numbers. Seek and destroy. The Crab Shell Meal promotes the growth of Chitin-eating bacteria. The jawbones of many pests we don't like are made of Chitin. So they don't last.

 

[Rrog]

BT is not commonly found in nature all over plants

BTI is a naturally occurring bacteria. The fact that we elevate the levels to suite our needs doesn't make it un-natural in my book.

Same with Spinosad which very similar.

Spinosad is a derivative of some rare bacteria or some such and is lab-produced. A chemical, not an organism.

Azamax is a brand name. The active ingredient azadirachtin is found in nature... naturally... that's there they get it from. Of course silimar to BT you don't naturally see it all over plants.

BTI is a bacteria. Azamax is a chemical solution. These are not the same at all.

I would warn you with using too much neem cake directly in the soil. More and more scientific documentation is coming out showing more negative effects to beneficial soil organisms than positive effects against pests.

That's very interesting and I was unaware of this. I expect moderation and balance would play a role in that. If you happen across any links to any of this mounting data I'd be grateful.

 

[Gastanker]

Think of the microlife as your army. If they're already in and ready, they'll repel invaders fiercely. If your soil is dead or injured, it's open for infestation. A strong dose of chemical will at the very least stun the microlife and this might take weeks to recover.

If instead, you inoculated the soil with beneficial microbes that help you (nematodes, BTI, fungus) they set up camp and grow in numbers. Seek and destroy. The Crab Shell Meal promotes the growth of Chitin-eating bacteria. The jawbones of many pests we don't like are made of Chitin. So they don't last.

Wouldn't argue with any of this. But again, neem cake is going to hurt your 'army' (just like azamax). Neem seeds = azadirachtin + several other fungicides and pesticides.

I would recommend the OP just cover the soil in an inch of fine sand for a week or two before use.

 

[Gastanker]

BTI is a naturally occurring bacteria. The fact that we elevate the levels to suite our needs doesn't make it un-natural in my book.

Spinosad is a derivative of some rare bacteria or some such and is lab-produced. A chemical, not an organism.

BTI is a bacteria. Azamax is a chemical solution. These are not the same at all.



That's very interesting and I was unaware of this. I expect moderation and balance would play a role in that. If you happen across any links to any of this mounting data I'd be grateful.

Where are you getting this? Spinosad is a bacterium naturally found, not a derivative. Spinosad and BT are both bacterium... thus why I said they are similar. Yes, neem oil and it's constituents are chemicals.

If elevating levels beyond natural isn't a problem, then again, why is azadirachtin. It's a naturally occurring chemical that we've elevated the levels of... You might as well be saying olive oil isn't natural because we've elevated the natural levels by extracting it.

I'll look for those papers - I know UC Davis has published a few along with the University of Colorado, UC Berkeley, and UC San Diego.

 

[Rrog]

But again, neem cake is going to hurt your 'army' (just like azamax). Neem seeds = azadirachtin + several other fungicides and pesticides.

I'd say that's a bit of a generalized stretch, maybe. A bit of Neem Meal does not equate to an Azamax drench, nor does its characterization as a fungicide or pesticide.

 

[Rrog]

Spinosad is not a bacteria. It is a compound that was isolated from a bacteria. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinosad

Azamax and Spinosad are chemical compounds made in a factory. Solvents, stabilizers and fillers. Neem meal is crushed up and dried Neem seed. I don't think of blood, bone, neem, crab and other meals to be chemicals

 

[Gastanker]

Wait, so the azadirachtin in neem seeds isn't a chemical? You know what a chemical is right? For instance my body is just a bunch of chemicals undergoing a large chemical reaction. You're totally right about spinosad, sorry about that.

http://www.sciencepub.net/nature/ns0711/08_1202_soyabean_ns0711.pdf
Here's one paper studying the effects of neem on fungi. This particular fungi is bad for crops so it's beneficial that neem keeps it down, but it illustrates the effect.

I'll dig up a few more.

Olive oil is composed of chemicals and is extracted in a lab environment...

 

[Rrog]

Hey gastanker, my last post, OK? Squeezing a lemon doesn't make lemon juice a chemical. The acid in the lemon juice isn't a chemical in the gardening sense. All molecules are not chemicals.

Chemically extracting a molecule and distilling it down to a very concentrated form and then stabilizing it with other chemicals is a chemical compound in my mind that I would use only as a last resort.

BTW I have degrees in Bio and Chem, not that it matters.

 

[Gastanker]

This is from cornell - "The key insecticidal ingredient found in the neem tree is azadirachtin, a naturally occurring substance that belongs to an organic molecule class called tetranortriterpenoids (6). It is structurally similar to insect hormones called "ecdysones," which control the process of metamorphosis as the insects pass from larva to pupa to adult."
http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/24d-captan/azadirachtin-ext.html

UC Davis soils lab - http://casoilresource.lawr.ucdavis.edu/drupal/aggregator/categories/3?page=17 Here's another science journal - "Of the different combination of biocontrol agents tested in vitro, combination of Pf1+Tv1+ Bs16+neem cake+zinc sulphate+FYM was most effective in inhibiting the radial mycelial growth"

If you're a chemist you'll understand that the chemical azadirachtin in the seeds of neem is the same as the azadirachtin found in commercial insecticides and is the main insecticide found in neem. You'll also understand why it needs a stabilizer and how adding an organic stabilizer isn't changing the active chemical. Kind of like saying pyrethrum isn't organic because the bottle isn't 100% pyrethrum.

I'm not saying neem is bad - for most applications its a godsend.

Lemon juice is full of chemicals. By squeezing the lemon the chemicals aren't suddenly bad. And yes, lemon juice can be used in gardening. I know a few people that pH with it...which would be a chemical reaction...

I'm curious as to where you think your BT is coming from. Scraping it off the top of soil? And does it come as 100% BT?