Existential Nihilism, a new form of freedom.

[Daxus]

Extremely insightful and thought provoking questions Dax, im impressed. When i speak about no purpose, im talking about no inherent purpose... like nothing gives us meaning or purpose. The only thing that gives us meaning and purpose is ourselves, and how we choose to give it that meaning. I think most people who cling to metaphysics/theology/spirituality have a really hard time understanding that we give ourselves purpose, or maybe they just cant except that. Dealing with the absurdity of existence is extremely painful at the start, but it allows a sense of freedom within ourselves that i cannot quite describe, it allows us to be completely honest with ourselves... rather than pretending/lying to ourselves to make ourselves feel better, we gain a sense of accomplishment, courage, pride, freedom, complete honesty, because instead of giving ourselves false truths, we embrace the absurdity of our existence and continue to live happily (or some unfortunates decide to live unhappily) in spite the fact that our lives are inherently meaningless. Since we have gotten past this awakening, we can now move towards the bigger and better parts of our lives, living in the moment, living for happiness and to make others happy, etc. etc.

I completely agree with you, that science is wrong, a lot! Even Hawkins was wrong when he said that information is destroyed in a back hole, it took him 25 years to come to terms within himself.. but he held a conference and openly stated that he was wrong, and that he is going to use this information to further his study about black holes. And you are also right, we could be completely wrong about what we think we know... but it doesn't change the fact that our sun will die, nothing can change that, and as we look into the farthest corners of the universe, it keeps telling us, reminding us over and over again... nothing lasts forever, that everything is in a constant flux of change.

I think if the outcome is unknown, it is merely the best to assume only that which can carry the burden of proof to the highest degree of what we can know. Like how we know stars die, we know entire species can get wiped out in a matter of days. I think the question about assuming the worst or assuming the best depends on our individual preferences. Personally, i just like to live life as happily as i can trying my best to not do anything that impacts the environment negatively.

I think the next step in human evolution is our choice, we hold the key to unlock the door. I think the first step is when everyone can come to terms with absurdity, and still find enough meaning in ourselves to continue to live. I think once/if this step is made on a mass scale, the sudden realization of what we have been doing to ourselves and our planet will hit us, and hit hard. If we could only understand the absurdity of the human condition, i think we would finally make the step we should have been making a long time ago to help everyone in the world be healthy, have a place to sleep, food to eat, clean water to drink for everyone. This is all possable and more, but everyone is so worried about what to believe, its like we are all still children, its like the human race is in its child stage, arguing and fighting over things that hold no relevance over what is actually important in the world.

From my own experiences, ive come up with a theory for humans capacity to change.

1. The hardest, is to change because you want to. Have you ever tried quitting smoking cigarettes, or cannabis for that matter? It is extremely degrading to my ego, when i would promise myself i was going to make the change, yet i couldn't do it. It was so hard, so very hard to change because i wanted to rather than when i HAVE to.

2. This gets a little easier, but still pretty tough. This form of change happens when something in our lives gets to a point where if we don't change, our mental or physical health would be in jeopardy. For instance, when you find out you are starting to get lung cancer, it is much easier to quit smoking now that you have a more powerful incentive to quit, because it might save your life. And isn't it funny, that it sometimes takes the fear of death to make us decide to change?

3. The last is the easiest, this form of change happens when you are forced to change. For example, say you get put on probation, and by law, if you get caught smoking cannabis you are going to be spending some time behind bars that people made to keep humans in. This is a massive amount of incentive, i cant think of a time where change came easier for me... i quit smoking cannabis cold turkey straight up, easiest change ive ever made lol.

Now when you take a look at this theory of change, and instead of presenting it as individual change... and take it to a much larger level, mass population change, you can see that the concepts are very similar. Its hard to keep hold onto the thought of hope for humanity, when you understand fully what it takes for people to change... let alone a mass population to change. It seems to me, that the only way a population will change is from numbers 2. and 3. with 3. topping out at most probable. Im thinking that some sort of mass catastrophe must occur for larger populations to find the courage and incentive to change.

This is very sad, i know, i agree... it sucks. I wish it wasn't like this i really do, but this is why its so hard for me to hold onto hope for humanity to find the key to their own evolution. To put aside our quarreling, arguments and disagreements and focus on what is really important for humanities continued survival, and happiness.

Like i said before... i think i'll let the 8 ball answer this one too.

Tyler, really awesome idea, plus rep if my button wasnt broken!



I too have a guilty pleasure... sometimes, when im alone, i like to pretend that when i die ill get to pick whatever existence i want in my next life... im gonna pick star wars!

But the difference between this and metaphysics/theology/spirituality/religion, is that i don't pretend to know... i understand that i am just pretending, so instead of lying to myself i can be honest with myself.

Honesty with myself is what i base the meaning and purpose of my existence on, i am comfortable with this answer-

I DON'T KNOW

"The ancient Oracle said that I was the wisest of all the Greeks. It is because I alone, of all the Greeks, know that I know nothing" –Socrates

There is a kind of true power in admitting that everything is beyond actual comprehension and everything is in doubt. It is almost as comforting to me as "knowing" there's a god would be for a spiritual person. In both cases, it's out of our hands, and we have but to live. The difference is I am not bound by the same social and moral constraints. I choose what I do, instead of assuming I must do it, or feeling pressured that I must do it.

Edit: Now I feel like Sonny from I, Robot. I have the three laws I can just choose to ignore them. Doesn't mean I will though.

 

[Zaehet Strife]

Very cool Dax, you continue to impress me with your insight. That is my favorite quote about Socrates.

 

[Daxus]

Very cool Dax, you continue to impress me with your insight. That is my favorite quote about Socrates.

Mine too

And thank you. Your insight and thoughts continue to prod my brain to dig deeper. I do wonder what would happen if somebody actually figured it all out. I've been questioning mortality a lot lately, and thinking about something interesting I read. If religious people live on average 7 years or so more than non-religious and atheists, I wonder if the further you dig, the shorter your life becomes?

Does prodding the meaning of existence take it's toll on your physical state? Maybe because of more stress?

 

[Zaehet Strife]

I think it may have something to do with religous people being scared of death (because deep down, below their layers of denial, they know that they don't really know what happens when you die), so they do everything in their power to prevent it. Where as i personally would rather not live past the point where its not possable for me to do a 360 in the air... whats the point of living if my body doesnt have the ability to do fun things anymore? So like 55-65 is when i would like to stop playing this game lol. But who knows what will happen from now until then.

Very good questions though, i like the ones that don't have answers the most lol.

 

[Daxus]

I think it may have something to do with religous people being scared of death (because deep down, below their layers of denial, they know that they don't really know what happens when you die), so they do everything in their power to prevent it. Where as i personally would rather not live past the point where its not possable for me to do a 360 in the air... whats the point of living if my body doesnt have the ability to do fun things anymore? So like 55-65 is when i would like to stop playing this game lol. But who knows what will happen from now until then.

Very good questions though, i like the ones that don't have answers the most lol.

I dunno some old people are tough as hell. My grandfather is turning 80 soon. He's had a triple bypass (when they brought him in they said it looked like he had had several heart attacks right in a row and not noticed), eats at McDonalds every day despite being told not too, and still goes out to my camp in the woods and mows the lawn, cuts firewood with an axe, cleans the place, paints it, winterizes and de-winterizes it as needed. A few years ago he came over to help me build a new set of steps for my house. I got out the circular saw and he told me "I can't use that damn thing!" and to bring him a hand saw. He sawed every single piece of lumber himself by hand and I had to fight with him to use screws instead of nails. He's still going strong, outlived my grandmother and has been remarried for a few years now as well.

Makes me really wonder how the heck people like this do it even if they have a shitty diet and beer belly. Up here it's not an uncommon sight to see farmers dying in the fields in their late 80's while still doing the same job they've done their entire life just as efficiently. My great aunt was thought to be on her way out at 90 yesterday. Despite being unconscious and having low oxygen all of a sudden in the middle of the night she turned around and is actually starting to recover a bit. Blows my mind.

 

[Zaehet Strife]

Well who knows?! Maybe ill want to stay alive longer than i thought! lol! That is really cool man, i hope im still doin back handsprings and jumping off of waterfalls at 80!

 

[st0wandgrow]

• With respect to the universe, existential nihilism posits that a single human or even the entire human species is insignificant, without inherant purpose and unlikely to change in the totality of existence​
  
  

This has been my view for years. We're just cockroaches, really. A lot of people praise the human race and are completely ignorant to anything outside of their front door. I look at the world in disbelief. I'm constantly amazed at just how depraved and brutal 'humanity' is. For all our supposed 'intelligence' and 'technological advancements', we sure manage to fuck the natural world over... And over again. This is our home, this mysterious, beautiful, diverse, bountiful planet which feeds us, and keeps us alive. And how do we fuckign repay it? By butchering almost every single animal in existence, by destroying millions of acres of land, raping her of her natural resources, dumping pollutants into the air and sea and creating ugly concrete structures and roads everywhere.

The way I see it is we're in for a short ride. Enjoy it while you can. Listen to the birds sing, try to feel the world, try to connect with everything, not just your friends and family. There's an entire planet of life out there, it's fucking beautiful! We're all in this together - regardless of species. You see that spider in the corner, spinning its web? It's keeping busy, it's doing it's thing, it's making a home, starting a family, trying to feed itself... Trying to get by and stay alive... Basically - doing the exact same damn thing as you and I, and it's going to end up just as dead as you and I and leave equally as small a mark in the sea of time.

I always liked this one by none other than the brilliant Einstein:

A person starts to live when he can live outside himself.​

Edit: Just to expand a bit, I always think of soldiers in World War 2. At one point, these guys were dug into trenches, fearful of their lives. They had loved ones at home, they had families. Their lives were their everything. They existed, they had a story, a past and a future. A man sat in a trench, soaked and exhausted and hoping he didn't die. That was that his life, his moment and his time. Now, all those years later, he's gone, his story and his presence, which at one point was the foundation of his very existence is lost and absolutely irrelevant. I might as well be that man, just in a different era and in different circumstances. My life is everything to me now, but to you - it's nothing. You don't know me, you could care less about my existence. One day my life will end, and thus ends my story, which in turn will be lost, just as his was.

Damn dude, you summed shit up! That's about as well articulated as one can be on the topic!

+rep

 

[st0wandgrow]

Zaehet, great topic. This is perhaps the best thread I've stumbled upon on this site!

 

[j.GrEeN.<,{'^'},>]

"I will prepare and some day my chance will come."

Towering genius disdains a beaten path. It seeks regions hitherto unexplored.
Whatever you are, be a good one.
I don't know who my grandfather was; I am much more concerned to know what his grandson will be.
You have to do your own growing no matter how tall your grandfather was.
It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues.
My dream is of a place and a time where America will once again be seen as the last best hope of earth.
If once you forfeit the confidence of your fellow-citizens, you can never regain their respect and esteem.
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.
Knavery and flattery are blood relations.
Never stir up litigation. A worse man can scarcely be found than one who does this.
No man has a good enough memory to be a successful liar.
Our defense is in the preservation of the spirit which prizes liberty as a heritage of all men, in all lands, everywhere.
Destroy this spirit and you have planted the seeds of despotism around your own doors.
I don't like that man. I must get to know him better.
Important principles may, and must, be inflexible.
I have always found that mercy bears richer fruits than strict justice.
I hope to stand firm enough to not go backward, and yet not go forward fast enough to wreck the country's cause.
I like to see a man proud of the place in which he lives. I like to see a man live so that his place will be proud of him.
I walk slowly, but I never walk backward.
If you call a tail a leg, how many legs has a dog? Five? No, calling a tail a leg don't make it a leg.
Don't worry when you are not recognized, but strive to be worthy of recognition.
Every man is said to have his peculiar ambition. Whether it be true or not, I can say for one that I have no other so great as that of being truly esteemed of my fellow men, by rendering myself worthy of their esteem.
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe.
I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts.
I destroy my enemies when I make them my friends.
Tact is the ability to describe others as they see themselves.
I do not think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.
I do the very best I know how - the very best I can; and I mean to keep on doing so until the end.
All my life I have tried to pluck a thistle and plant a flower wherever the flower would grow in thought and mind.
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other.
As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master.
Avoid popularity if you would have peace.
Be sure you put your feet in the right place, then stand firm.
Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all.
Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing.
If there is anything that a man can do well, I say let him do it. Give him a chance.
No man is good enough to govern another man without that other's consent.
Some single mind must be master, else there will be no agreement in anything.
The people themselves, and not their servants, can safely reverse their own deliberate decisions.
That some achieve great success, is proof to all that others can achieve it as well.
In great contests each party claims to act in accordance with the will. Both may be, and one must be wrong.
The highest art is always the most religious, and the greatest artist is always a devout person.
Lets have faith that right makes might; and in that faith let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it.
The probability that we may fail in the struggle ought not to deter us from the support of a cause we believe to be just.
I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true. I am not bound to succeed, but I am bound to live by the light that I have. I must stand with anybody that stands right, and stand with him while he is right, and part with him when he goes wrong.
With the fearful strain that is on me night and day, if I did not laugh I should die.
I desire so to conduct the affairs of this administration that if at the end... I have lost every other friend on earth, I shall at least have one friend left, and that friend shall be down inside of me.
Surely God would not have created such a being as man, with an ability to grasp the infinite, to exist only for a day! No,
no, man was made for immortality.
When you have got an elephant by the hind legs and he is trying to run away, it's best to let him run.
Every one desires to live long, but no one would be old.
He has a right to criticize, who has a heart to help.
The best thing about the future is that it comes one day at a time.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years.
Hold on with a bulldog grip, and chew and choke as much as possible.
My great concern is not whether you have failed, but whether you are content with your failure.

"Most folks are as happy as they make up their minds to be."

------Abe Lincoln

 

[Zaehet Strife]

Zaehet, great topic. This is perhaps the best thread I've stumbled upon on this site!

Thanks bro, im really glad there are those who find this subject thought provoking, i love thinking about this stuff. Much appreciated Wand.

 

[Padawanbater2]

• With respect to the universe, existential nihilism posits that a single human or even the entire human species is insignificant, without inherant purpose and unlikely to change in the totality of existence​
  
  

This has been my view for years. We're just cockroaches, really. A lot of people praise the human race and are completely ignorant to anything outside of their front door. I look at the world in disbelief. I'm constantly amazed at just how depraved and brutal 'humanity' is. For all our supposed 'intelligence' and 'technological advancements', we sure manage to fuck the natural world over... And over again. This is our home, this mysterious, beautiful, diverse, bountiful planet which feeds us, and keeps us alive. And how do we fuckign repay it? By butchering almost every single animal in existence, by destroying millions of acres of land, raping her of her natural resources, dumping pollutants into the air and sea and creating ugly concrete structures and roads everywhere.

The way I see it is we're in for a short ride. Enjoy it while you can. Listen to the birds sing, try to feel the world, try to connect with everything, not just your friends and family. There's an entire planet of life out there, it's fucking beautiful! We're all in this together - regardless of species. You see that spider in the corner, spinning its web? It's keeping busy, it's doing it's thing, it's making a home, starting a family, trying to feed itself... Trying to get by and stay alive... Basically - doing the exact same damn thing as you and I, and it's going to end up just as dead as you and I and leave equally as small a mark in the sea of time.

I always liked this one by none other than the brilliant Einstein:

A person starts to live when he can live outside himself.​

Edit: Just to expand a bit, I always think of soldiers in World War 2. At one point, these guys were dug into trenches, fearful of their lives. They had loved ones at home, they had families. Their lives were their everything. They existed, they had a story, a past and a future. A man sat in a trench, soaked and exhausted and hoping he didn't die. That was that his life, his moment and his time. Now, all those years later, he's gone, his story and his presence, which at one point was the foundation of his very existence is lost and absolutely irrelevant. I might as well be that man, just in a different era and in different circumstances. My life is everything to me now, but to you - it's nothing. You don't know me, you could care less about my existence. One day my life will end, and thus ends my story, which in turn will be lost, just as his was.

+rep.........

 

[Zaehet Strife]

I just wish people didn't have to be so scared all the time.

 

[Padawanbater2]

I just wish people didn't have to be so scared all the time.

Fear drives profits, it's like today, money is all that matters.

I wonder how many people in high positions like the Pope simply use their power for their own greedy gain and don't actually believe the stuff they preach..

 

[Zaehet Strife]

I know exactly what you mean bro, i wonder if they are deluded too, or just using the ignorance of the masses to gain wealth, and an easy life of comfort.

 

[Daxus]

I know exactly what you mean bro, i wonder if they are deluded too, or just using the ignorance of the masses to gain wealth, and an easy life of comfort.

To quote George Costanza: "It's not a lie if you believe it!"

Especially if it benefits you. Convince enough people, and yourself of something, and it becomes "real" enough. Then you can truely benefit from it without any guilt or other nasty feelings, and if you turn out to be wrong, well it's not your fault. You really thought you were doing the right thing!

 

[Zaehet Strife]

To quote George Costanza: "It's not a lie if you believe it!"

Especially if it benefits you. Convince enough people, and yourself of something, and it becomes "real" enough. Then you can truely benefit from it without any guilt or other nasty feelings, and if you turn out to be wrong, well it's not your fault. You really thought you were doing the right thing!

^The truth in this statement makes me sick to my stomach.

 

[Daxus]

^The truth in this statement makes me sick to my stomach.

The more I learn about our existence and the way we interact with each other, the more I wish I was a blissfully ignorant drone that never started digging, because once you get a taste of the truth you can't stop looking for it. And the more you find the more disappointed and scared you become.

On the other hand, at least I can say to myself, that I thought I had a much better grasp on reality than most people. But then again that just might be my perspective

 

[Zaehet Strife]

The more I learn about our existence and the way we interact with each other, the more I wish I was a blissfully ignorant drone that never started digging, because once you get a taste of the truth you can't stop looking for it. And the more you find the more disappointed and scared you become.

On the other hand, at least I can say to myself, that I thought I had a much better grasp on reality than most people. But then again that just might be my perspective

Beautifully written my friend. I completely understand, and have experienced the same feeling, and it will probably continue until the day i die.

For some reason i have this uncanny inability to be dishonest with myself... it's quite annoying at times.

 

[Daxus]

Beautifully written my friend. I completely understand, and have experienced the same feeling, and it will probably continue until the day i die.

For some reason i have this uncanny inability to be dishonest with myself... it's quite annoying at times.

Dishonest how? Now I'm curious. Like in denial?

I find it hard to think about not being honest with myself, but then again, I guess on some level everyone is in denial about something.

 

[Dislexicmidget2021]

just as we have the ability to be honest,there is the abilility for dishonesty with ourselves,Its when one knows about being dishonest with themselves will they will either dig further into fantasy or start seeking truth yet to find truth to be fleeting because our understanding of truth changes many times....It is one of lifes greatest puzzles.I think your right Dax.on some level its as though we must deny what we dont care to experience,like for me,Hatred,anger,misery,dishonesty towards others,I dont care for them and the feelings they bring,so I deny them manifestation through my actions,though on a subtle level they are present,instead i keep them locked away in denial because they arent worth my time nor the time of others.