5th Week of Flower - Experiencing Deficiencies

[Daemonn789]

Howdy All.

I'm on my 3rd "organic" grow. I'm letting my own organic soil (super soil recipe) cook for my next batch. I say "organics" because its been with FFOF/HF soil and Humboldt Naturals nutrient line. When I purchased them, I was new to growing and living in a small place with lots of neighbor activity... Wasn't easy to do anything with compost, soils, teas because I was brewing/mixing them in my house, where I have a family and friends lol. I didnt mind the stink, but they sure did!

Anyways, Im almost done with the bottles and into my first homemade soil run. In these first 3 grows it seemed like I underfed and had problems since week 1 of flower. I then played catch up until they were finished, prolly losing out on weight, smell, taste. I've never had a plant die or anything, just yellowing and browning leaves very early on in flower. My question to all the experienced gardeners out there is:

Does it seem like basic underfeeding and I just never gave em what they needed? I would normally water with something like this - (week 3-4 of flower) 7ml Grow 10ml Bloom 3ml deuce deuce (bloom booster) and then the various small 1-3ml of different micros per gallon jug. Here are the pics of my Jack the Rippers who have about 4-5 weeks left - would love to hear any info/advice on the deficiencies they are showing. I've since upped the ppms by double without any negative effect... might have caught it this time.

 

[allen bud]

I guess first i have to ask what kind of lighting and how close is it.It looks to me like the started off with a lack of N,P,K, and now the soil is void of nutes so she wont grow to much . Should be needing water at least 2 times a week ,and if your soil is that void you must us nutes every feeding. If you only seem to be feeding 1 time a week or less you probably got some root death(lol).next water add a bit of hydrogenperoxide and a drip or 2 of dawn dish detergent that will help any aillments and lossen the soil so water penatrates the soil easyer and will wash some salt from roots(if there is any)IMO!!

 

[Daemonn789]

Thanks for the quick reply!

They are under a 600w HPS and were vegged under a 600w MH. Basically I was feeding every other watering but that only lasted the first week of waterings - with waterings being every 2.5 days. I got nervous of underfeeding so I have been using grow bloom and the bloom booster in one jug and the micros in another jug for each watering. They are in 5gal pots. I water before they wilt. Once or twice I skipped nutes and just did micros and RO water cause I felt the soil might have needed a break.

They all stretched to about 40" from roughly 22" and stopped stretching a week and a half ago. They are about to enter the 5th week of flowering tomorrow.

Any other info you need?

 

[blueJ]

Doesn't even look too bad man, but you gotta give some more info as suggested above.

lighting?
atmosphere i.e. temps/humidity?
type of water?

And this is a little vague "then the various small 1-3ml of different micros per gallon jug" sometimes 3ml/gal of certain micros can be way too much, so clarification there as well.

Otherwise yeah, looksl like they could use more food, feed the fuck outa that bitch, and do what you're already doing, you mentioned you doubled the dosage so just work your way to the sweet spot, get some molasses in there too if not already and if you can bubble all your nutes for at least a few hours to 24hurs before to help start to break down and also ph balance. If you add enzymes or calmag+ add those LAST right before you water, don't bubble with them. Highly recommend bubbling!

Also consider ammending your soil mix, they are all kind of weak on their own for full size ladies like this, bone/blood/kelp/alfalfa meal, dolomite lime, all good stuff and you will notice the difference once you start ammending your soil AND going hard with the nutes/teas!

oh sorry, i notice you said your first homemade soil mix, well, whats in the mix??

 

[Daemonn789]

Doesn't even look too bad man, but you gotta give some more info as suggested above.

lighting?
atmosphere i.e. temps/humidity?
type of water?

And this is a little vague "then the various small 1-3ml of different micros per gallon jug" sometimes 3ml/gal of certain micros can be way too much, so clarification there as well.

Otherwise yeah, looksl like they could use more food, feed the fuck outa that bitch, and do what you're already doing, you mentioned you doubled the dosage so just work your way to the sweet spot, get some molasses in there too if not already and if you can bubble all your nutes for at least a few hours to 24hurs before to help start to break down and also ph balance. If you add enzymes or calmag+ add those LAST right before you water, don't bubble with them. Highly recommend bubbling!

Also consider ammending your soil mix, they are all kind of weak on their own for full size ladies like this, bone/blood/kelp/alfalfa meal, dolomite lime, all good stuff and you will notice the difference once you start ammending your soil AND going hard with the nutes/teas!

oh sorry, i notice you said your first homemade soil mix, well, whats in the mix??

Word -

Lighting is the 600w HPS about 10" from the tops

Temps max at 80 with average of 78 during the day and 73 degrees at night. Humidity never goes above 50% I run a dehumie to keep it around 35-40%.

So, being new to growing I am kinda new to the whole mixing and brewing deal. I normally use water run through a brita filter into my 1 gal jugs. Then I mix the main Grow and Bloom in with the bloom booster (Deuce Deuce) and usually bubble that. When I do micros it goes like this: Prozyme (10-15ml), Fulvic Acid(1-3ml), Humic Acid(1-3ml), CalMg(1-3ml),and honey(5-15ml) into a jug and then bubble.

I have a few times used tap water, bubbled it for 24 hrs to dechlorinate, added nutes and bubbled but the pH is always very high (like 7.5-8.0) so I stick with the brita water for a nicer pH (6.2-6..

So... DONT bubble with my CalMg/Prozyme - gotcha, thanks. also does that go for the acids?

Right now they are in Fox Farms Ocean Forest mixed with Happy Frog. I have super soil made for the next batch, want to get off the bottles.

Thanks a lot Bluej

 

[+ WitchDoctor +]

Is the CalMag Humboldt? If not what brand?

To be honest man, I don't think it's a feeding issue, not that you can't feed them harder. They could have used a little more N during that stretch for sure, and you should probably still add a little now instead of giving it more grow formula. You want flowers right, so use the bloom and feed double strength from here on out. I'd recommend either using a liquid N product like Nature's Nectar Nitrogen, or using a little guano or some alfalfa in a tea. I use alfalfa in my teas all through flower and they seem to get just enough N all the way through without my leaves ever getting dark.

You've got a TON of healthy green leaves on the top, and a ton on the bottom. You've just got basically some fan leaves in the middle that are yellow and crunchy.

Have the plants gone without water enough to make some of the fan leaves kinda "droop" down? I've dried my pots out before where the leaves got droopy and then after I watered they all picked back up...but days or a week or so later some of the bigger fan leaves would kinda just yellow up, and then turn crunchy, just like yours.

Another suggestion would be mites, but I'd need a close-up pic of fan leaf. Sometimes they attack some fan leaves first, and you don't really see them right way. It starts off looking like some tiny little brownish spots on the leaf, and then eventually turns the leaves yellow as they die. Did you check the underside of the leaves for any mites?

 

[blueJ]

Word -

So, being new to growing I am kinda new to the whole mixing and brewing deal. I normally use water run through a brita filter into my 1 gal jugs. Then I mix the main Grow and Bloom in with the bloom booster (Deuce Deuce) and usually bubble that. When I do micros it goes like this: Prozyme (10-15ml), Fulvic Acid(1-3ml), Humic Acid(1-3ml), CalMg(1-3ml),and honey(5-15ml) into a jug and then bubble.

I have a few times used tap water, bubbled it for 24 hrs to dechlorinate, added nutes and bubbled but the pH is always very high (like 7.5-8.0) so I stick with the brita water for a nicer pH (6.2-6..

So... DONT bubble with my CalMg/Prozyme - gotcha, thanks. also does that go for the acids?

Right now they are in Fox Farms Ocean Forest mixed with Happy Frog. I have super soil made for the next batch, want to get off the bottles.

Thanks a lot Bluej

Looks good, i can't seem to get away from bottles myself, as no matter how strong i make my soil they are always hungry and once flower hits they are fed EVERY watering, which comes out to twice a week.

Your qty's of fulvic/humic are good, add those right into your batch of nutes you bubble along with the honey, good to have all that bubble together. Add the CaMg, and you can go up to 5ml/gal if using RO water and especially if you don't have dolomite lime/epsom salt in the soil, i have both and still do 3ml/gal, cut the prozyme back to like 3ml/gal and use every watering once you hit flower, i don't really use it at all in veg since your roots are fresh and not rootbound yet.

Consider using molasses @ 5ml/gal and then once a week or so when you hit flower switch it out for the honey ES @ 5ml/gal.

Also, try getting a bag of worm castings, and once you add all your liquid, throw a scoop of EWC and let that bubble a day, you might notice some foam good shit! and then the 'zymes and camg right before you water

 

[Daemonn789]

Is the CalMag Humboldt? If not what brand?

To be honest man, I don't think it's a feeding issue, not that you can't feed them harder. They could have used a little more N during that stretch for sure, and you should probably still add a little now instead of giving it more grow formula. You want flowers right, so use the bloom and feed double strength from here on out. I'd recommend either using a liquid N product like Nature's Nectar Nitrogen, or using a little guano or some alfalfa in a tea. I use alfalfa in my teas all through flower and they seem to get just enough N all the way through without my leaves ever getting dark.

You've got a TON of healthy green leaves on the top, and a ton on the bottom. You've just got basically some fan leaves in the middle that are yellow and crunchy.

Have the plants gone without water enough to make some of the fan leaves kinda "droop" down? I've dried my pots out before where the leaves got droopy and then after I watered they all picked back up...but days or a week or so later some of the bigger fan leaves would kinda just yellow up, and then turn crunchy, just like yours.

Another suggestion would be mites, but I'd need a close-up pic of fan leaf. Sometimes they attack some fan leaves first, and you don't really see them right way. It starts off looking like some tiny little brownish spots on the leaf, and then eventually turns the leaves yellow as they die. Did you check the underside of the leaves for any mites?

Oh... well that might be exactly it - with a combo of underfeeding. I did have a day where they got wilted pretty bad for a few hours, hasnt happened since but yup - yellow crunchy leaves.

I def dont have bugs. I spray neem pretty religiously and I also check very thoroughly. I had someone give me a clone that started to transfer mites to my other plants. I eradicated them but learned very well what they look like, how they move, where they lag eggs, how they pull leaf edges together with webbing sometimes for a curl look, the dots from eating the leaf surface or attaching eggs to the underside... Fuckin hate the borg. Kill on sight!

Yes it is Humboldts Equilibrium... For their feeding schedule they actually have you using Grow through finish, albeit a tapering off through flower, it never says to stop giving it. Its 0-3-0. But I am def gonna keep the Bloom food up. Thanks a ton.

 

[Daemonn789]

Looks good, i can't seem to get away from bottles myself, as no matter how strong i make my soil they are always hungry and once flower hits they are fed EVERY watering, which comes out to twice a week.

Your qty's of fulvic/humic are good, add those right into your batch of nutes you bubble along with the honey, good to have all that bubble together. Add the CaMg, and you can go up to 5ml/gal if using RO water and especially if you don't have dolomite lime/epsom salt in the soil, i have both and still do 3ml/gal, cut the prozyme back to like 3ml/gal and use every watering once you hit flower, i don't really use it at all in veg since your roots are fresh and not rootbound yet.

Consider using molasses @ 5ml/gal and then once a week or so when you hit flower switch it out for the honey ES @ 5ml/gal.

Also, try getting a bag of worm castings, and once you add all your liquid, throw a scoop of EWC and let that bubble a day, you might notice some foam good shit! and then the 'zymes and camg right before you water

Awesome info, thank you so much!

I dont have any molasses, but I do have the honey ES. I have a bag of worm castings now, a "scoop" is like a tablespoon or spoonful? Is the prozyme what you would recommend adding after bubbling? Or is there something else far more effective?

Cool, I think these will finish much better with this advice and the confidence to get it done right!


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to blueJ again.

 

[ineverveg]

that looks like str8 up over fert to me,in particular N, it just looks early stages tho , what harm can a flush do?

 

[blueJ]

What part of lightly yellowing fan leaves / few crispy leaves look like N over-fert????

the prozyme and camg after bubbling / right before feeding. Whatever enzyme you use, i switched from prozyme to hygrozyme and liked it better then i switched to aptus ecozyme and I don't really notice a difference. i like it though, aptus is super concentrated and i use it @ 2ml/5gal, their humiblast is fuckin' awesome too.

a couple tablespoons with a heavy feed of liquid nutes and with lighter feedings i use more, up to a cup of EWC, usually somewhere between a 1/4 and 1/2 cup, it's very mild so measuring isn't exact on that one for me (this is per 5gal)

Good luck Daemonn and keep us updated on this lady, she's not lookin' bad at all right now!

 

[+ WitchDoctor +]

Yea, no offense but you might wanna google N overdose to see what it looks like. And flushing in the 5th week of flower using organic nutrients can do a lot of harm actually.



Good stuff man, I think we nailed it. I just had 2 White Rhinos that did the same thing. I let them dry out too much one time during their stretch, and a few weeks later I lost a bunch of fan leaves but the rest of the plant looked great.

Your plants look good. They look like they stretched out a bit too much though, lot of space between the bud sites. Did you say you keep it 10 inches from the glass of your 600w at 80 max? I'd keep them more like 14-18 inches away. I know it's really tempting to keep them close to the light to get bigger buds, but what usually ends up happening is they produce smaller buds from the stress of the heat. I've gotten seeds out of some girls a couple times when I kept them that close, and I always had more space in between buds sites. Now they're more compact, so even 16 inches away from the glass I'm still reaching more bud sites with light.

 

[Daemonn789]

Ya it's def under feeding as it was my habit the first 2 grows and I thought I was correcting it, but I still wasn't adding enough based on how much others use. I was using less than 30ml of nutes per bloom nute jug. That was all my liquids added up - less than 30ml.

Otherwise, ya I have since upped the bloom nutes to double that (week ago) and things haven't gotten worse, just about the same but less leaves fading now. I know most damaged leaves never recover, but the "problem" seems to have slowed when I added food. No more aggressive yellowing.

Ya my height is limited so the lights can't get much higher. I do have a tower fan on a stand blowing through the tops, temps don't go over 81° on the thermometer probe that I put on a top cola. Do you think I should try and make it cooler or raise the lights? Ya during the stretch they all shot up pretty hard, kept the 600w MH about 15-18" through veg but they still stretched right to the light lol.

 

[missnu]

Well it isn't a nitrogen deficiency...that is for real...and that is usually what makes the plant yellow at the bottom and work up, but that looks kind of different then what I see when I think underfed

 

[+ WitchDoctor +]

Ya it's def under feeding as it was my habit the first 2 grows and I thought I was correcting it, but I still wasn't adding enough based on how much others use. I was using less than 30ml of nutes per bloom nute jug. That was all my liquids added up - less than 30ml.

Otherwise, ya I have since upped the bloom nutes to double that (week ago) and things haven't gotten worse, just about the same but less leaves fading now. I know most damaged leaves never recover, but the "problem" seems to have slowed when I added food. No more aggressive yellowing.

Ya my height is limited so the lights can't get much higher. I do have a tower fan on a stand blowing through the tops, temps don't go over 81° on the thermometer probe that I put on a top cola. Do you think I should try and make it cooler or raise the lights? Ya during the stretch they all shot up pretty hard, kept the 600w MH about 15-18" through veg but they still stretched right to the light lol.

You know what's funny, is I always heard that if you keep the lights farther away the plants would "stretch" towards them...which if you think about it logically it makes no fucking sense lol. So then I started keeping them 24 inches away when I flip them, and when they grew up to 18 inches away, I pulled it another 6 inches up, and repeat again if I have to. So now when I bring in plants that are about 18" tall, they never get over 30 inches and I still get lots of bushy growth, with hybrids at least.

But I got lots of stretching when I used to keep them 12 inches away.

And I don't think you need to make it cooler, unless you want to. at 80 degrees you'll get good yields, as long as you back them away to 14-18 inches and make sure it's not too hot on them. And if you drop night temps to 55-60 you'll see some beautiful colors in the leaves towards the end of flower, as well as in the bud. And supposedly more potent..

And if you really are pinned for room with the reflectors, I'd get busy on pruning techniques. You'll have a lot of fun with them anyways. Check out the FIM sticky if you haven't read up or tried it yet, and I just started super-cropping with good results, I was actually surprised on how well that works. You can still get ounces out of a plant that is barely a foot tall

 

[Daemonn789]

Yea I'm still learning how to train, I've read tons of articles regarding all kinds of training and topping, I was more worried on locking down watering, feeding, and maintaining the space. Like I said, only my 3rd grow. I already have a few vegging that I've topped for my "training" lol.

I'm trying to get a organic/vegan perpetual SoG going step by step. Buyin a piece, a bag of soil or whatever slowly but surely. This harvest should be real help, the first 2 barely yielded over 3oz each time due to small space, limited lighting, and a noobie grower underfeeding.

So many things to learn and master... You guys have been a great help. Thank you so much.

 

[Daemonn789]

Here is Humboldt's feeding chart just for good measure... I am in week 5.



So I am about to mix up a heavy feed of nutes... figured I'd post what I was gonna do before I do it!

15ml Bloom
5ml Grow
10ml Deuce Deuce
10ml Honey ES
1tbsp EWC
2ml HumBolt
2ml FlavorFul

Bubble and add:

5ml Prozyme
1ml Equilibrium (Bloom has a lot of cal in it)

Water! Thoughts?

 

[+ WitchDoctor +]

I think they can handle all that. Is their already some P in the bloom formula?

 

[Daemonn789]

Bloom is 0-10-0 10% Phosphate 10% Calcium
Deuce Deuce is 0-0-22 22% Soluble Potash

 

[Hasbroh]

You've got a TON of healthy green leaves on the top, and a ton on the bottom. You've just got basically some fan leaves in the middle that are yellow and crunchy.
Have the plants gone without water enough to make some of the fan leaves kinda "droop" down? I've dried my pots out before where the leaves got droopy and then after I watered they all picked back up...but days or a week or so later some of the bigger fan leaves would kinda just yellow up, and then turn crunchy, just like yours.

Very good observation. I try very hard to water before wilting. Generalizing here but even minor wilting often suggests death to some of the single celled water absorbing roots. Not a member of the Wait Till It Wilts To Water Club. It's a big club.