Let's Grow A Mom Out! aka Journal of a Chinese LED Panel Junkie

[FranJan]

i have never used leds, i have recently switched from MH to cfls for my mother plants and early stages of veg,
im impressed with how well just a 125w cfl can veg my mothers for me without all the heat from a 250 or 400w mh
i still use 3x 600w mh for the later stages of veg

Wow, those are gorgeous ladies skunkd0c . When I look at those I see the importance you put into veg and that's something I don't put enough emphasis on. And I'll say one thing; if you are impressed with what a 125 watt CFL can do in veg, you'd be pleasantly surprised what a decent LED can do in the same circumstances. I know a bit about that because I just switched my 12x23 watt 1600+ lumen CFLs out of my veg cab for my old LED panel that's only outputting at 144 watts and 2 20 watt 5500K LED wash lights and they're killing the CFLs in growth. It's not exactly a fair fight, since the CFLs weren't horticultural grade (low wattage, made in China, straight from the thrift shop CFLs actually ), but they did work well. Also I couldn't imagine the cost and time experimenting to replace 3 600 watt MHs with LEDs in 2012. They'll be there one day. Just not tomorrow . Cheers doc.

 

[FranJan]

Franjan.... NICE! I been looking at a couple LED Star panels, one in fact has the following layout
Red(660nm):Red(630nm):Blue(460nm):Orange(615nm):Yellow(585nm):White(7000K)=5:2:2:1:1:1
all 5w LED's

Was thinking of putting 2 of them in place of a 1k hps

That's pretty wild there Rev. 2 5x60s! That's a lot of light but realize 5x60's run pretty hot. Not 1K HPS hot, but they do generate quite a bit of heat. And are you using these panels as a basis for a multi-panel setup? I ask this because I don't think 2 5x60 can replace the awesomeness of a 1k HPS, but you surround them with LED wash lights or a few Kessils, and man you've got something there IMHO. Overall 5x60s have their pluses and minuses so do yourself a favor and be sure they're right for your situation. They ain't cheap to return regardless of their warranty. And you do know they'll make them with almost any spectrums you want, right? Ask about their white LEDs and get the spectral outputs for them. You'll see that you can dump the blues, oranges, and yellows and replace them with the outputs of various white LEDs. At least dump the blues for 10000K white. You'll thank me for that . Good Luck Rev!

 

[reverof]

Yeah I talked to the sales guy about customizing the LED spectrums. They also have several other panels I am kinda considering also, such as 180*3w + 6*5w
Ratio of 630:128 660:24 460:20 14000k:6 610:4 410:2 730:2
Lumens: 11600ml

Again 2 of these replacing a single 1000w hps... stating that I have 1000w running over a single flood & drain table 2'x3'.

 

[FranJan]

Well they will do 2'x3' that's for sure . I'm hoping we're all going to be seeing pictures of this. Sounds like it could be incredible.

 

[reverof]

Yeah I dont have any big grows going anymore, I just grow 4-6 plants in 2x3 F&D or 2-4 DWC plants at a time.

This is why I am thinking 2 panels would be excellent coverage for them!

 

[FranJan]

Hey gang I've returned with another update for all of you payin' attention out there. Though things seem to be going smooth so far there's certainly some dangers looming on the horizon (insert ominous music here).

But first lets get on with the good stuff. So far both plants are doing good and appear to be quite healthy, with lots of buds and bud sites starting to pop up. The Magic Bud is really starting to show off and is loving it's environment. Don't let the droopy appearance fool you, that's the way this plant grows, at least around here . The BC on the other hand, while doing quite well is starting it's diva bitchiness phase and is showing signs of nute burn and, I think, is a little stressed from the LEDs, it's environment and it's diet. Still bud production is going on and maybe a steady diet of water and better conditions will help calm her. I've also decided to start treating these plants as the different strains that they are and I won't be feeding them on the same schedule or diet any longer. And just for the record both plants were fed on May 30th. The Magic Bud was given 28 oz, at 1/3 strength, of what I used last time to feed her and will probably be given 20 to 30 oz of water on Sunday. The Blue Cheese was given just 20 oz of water and will be given another 20 oz of water tomorrow since the pot was already light today. Plus both plants were augured lightly today to help increase air to the roots.

Here's some pics of the Magic Bud:

Here's some views under the LEDs and under the T8s. The last two show how I've got to trim out the middle and the branch in the last pic is just not keeping up so it will probably be gone soon.



Here's some pics of the Blue Cheese:


So far so good, but there's some nute burn going on and some heat stress from the last few day's temps IMHO. If you notice the rubber bands this is how I control any branch taking off and sometimes to help create more tops. The negative of doing this is it stresses the plant a bit and can results in increased flowering time. Having said that it can also increase your yield. Sometimes I take them off after a few days but this time I'll probably be keeping these on for the duration or when the stem that is being LST'd has hardened.


On the other hand, things are shaping up to be a tough grow this summer. Got a little taste of summer this week and the cooling system barely kept up. Temps were peaking this week at 88F with lights on and basically my cooling system that worked so well last summer at keeping everything at 78F does not seem to be able to handle the heat running 2 5x60s, 2 BS240s, 2 5500K LED wash lights and 4x32 watt T8s can put out. I've definitely got some options to play with, but most cost money which is running thin at the moment. One is I could drag my 15,000 BTU monster into the room (I'm using a 5000 BTUer right now), and pay the extra money running it and be done with my problem, though there are other aspects of doing this that make this not such a great answer. Of course I could start running CO2 to counteract any bad effects from the heat with lights on, but again this is an option that costs money to do right and would mean I would have to completely seal up the rest of my grow room. And I could grow econo and put frozen blocks of ice under my fan and maybe mod my panels to see if I can get them to generate a little less heat, but this also means I'm chained to the grow till the end of the summer most likely. The problem of course is the decision needs to be made NOW, which I always hate. So Sunday is decision day and I'm sure I'll be mentioning it next time.

Also we just got a little surprise today. Seems we may have a rooster in the hen house. I was trying out some of the MB SoG that I harvested and guess what popped out of a bud? A beautiful round half green-half white FUCKING SEED. (Just typing those words made me put down the keyboard and take a hit. Aaaaarghhhh!) And since I discovered it shortly before lights out I wasn't able to fully check out the flowering room, but it seems to be localized to this plant. It probably hermied and that was most likely brought on by the combination of starting in 12/1, the LEDs I'm using and the height of the LED panels for this particular grow which I chose to run closer than I normally would. I did have my panels running less than 12 inches with this new grow now, but have decided to move them a little further away for rest of the grow. I'm going to try to keep the 5x60 at least 16 inches away from the tops and the 240s around 14 inches. I'll probably drop them come the last two weeks but for now I want to keep the environment more stress free than I feel it is.

Of course there could be another explanation for the seed. Not as plausible as the first hypothesis but I feel there remains some possibility that this scenario happened. I ordered some Jilly Bean seeds one time that turned out to be all males. I did take some pollen from them and it is in my freezer at the moment. Sometime last month or so I gave my charcoal filter a good cleaning and I'm wondering if there was any JB pollen in it that got loose when I originally harvested the pollen and landed on that particular plant. The seed appears to be no different than the seeds from the 10 pack of MB I originally bought. To tell you the truth I was shocked that the MB seeds from Paradise seemed so green and I thought they would never germinate when I initially bought them. So I've decided just for shits and giggles to see if today's surprise will germinate. I may have to wait a bit before I germinate it, but it very well could be some kind of cross between JB and MB. I doubt it, but hey, there's only one way to be sure. But first we've got to be sure this is an isolated incident, otherwise it's game over.

Anyone see a male flower?

Some TD, a BC bud and a SoG of BC finishing hard.

So hopefully I'll be back next time with some better news and bigger buds. And watch out for tigers folks! Little bastards are everywhere it seems .



​

 

[Rasser]

Got a little taste of summer this week and the cooling system barely kept up.
Temps were peaking this week at 88F with lights on and basically my cooling system
that worked so well last summer at keeping everything at 78F does not seem to be able
to handle the heat running 2 5x60s, 2 BS240s, and 2 5500K LED wash lights can put out.

Hey.

Can you elaborate on that, where you running HPS last year?
and are you using more electricity than last year or less. Or what's going on.

 

[thatsmessedup]

your a funny guy franjan ... gota watch for them tigers!

 

[FranJan]

Hey.

Can you elaborate on that, where you running HPS last year?
and are you using more electricity than last year or less. Or what's going on.

Hey Rasser what's up? Thanks for stopping by. I also forgot to add I'm running 4 x 32 watt T8s with this setup too and added that to my last post.

Actually I've never used a HID though I've been around a few grows using them so I have a clue about their heat. And I am using a bit more electricity this year it seems but I'm also always trying to cut consumption by upgrading equipment or removing/simplifying things. Let me also add that my apartment gets extremely hot in the summer, so if it's 96F(35C) it's easily over 100F(37C) in the grow room without AC. Add my grow lights and you'll see that cooling is a very important part of my grow during summer! Last year around August I was running 2 x BS240s, 4 x 35 watts T8s in my flowering tent and 12 x 32 watt CFLs in my veg cab. The CFLs ran hot as hell and were shortly replaced by 12 x 23 watt CFLs. So now I got rid of the CFLs but added 2 5x60s and 2 x 20 watt LED wash lights (these run pretty hot actually) in the grow room and it seems to be a struggle to maintain my temps when it hit 90F(32C)+ this week. I've got plenty of air movement so I do have that on my side but the 5x60s and the wash lights seem to be really adding to the temps in my room and since the room is not 100% sealed the air conditioner works overtime and may be getting old. I really should just suck it up and go get a CO2 setup, but I'm just not liking the idea of running out and buying something that I'm not familiar with and the grow shops around here are run by people who love money more than taking care of people so I don't trust them to help me. Anyway I hope that answers your questions and I'll "see" ya round Rass .

 

[FranJan]

your a funny guy franjan ... gota watch for them tigers!

You want funny, you should see me dance! LOL

 

[PetFlora]

FJ: Did I read somewhere that you are using a 12/1 light cycle? If so, how do you control the different times?

 

[FranJan]

FJ: Did I read somewhere that you are using a 12/1 light cycle? If so, how do you control the different times?

Hey PetFlora thanks for stopping by. You get around all these cannabis forums don't ya ?

Let me clarify a bit if I understand your question correctly. I have a 5' x 6' x 19" veg cab which I keep my moms in and do my cloning and vegging in too. This cabinet I run at 12/1 and at most has 4 moms, 16 clones and 12-16 plants vegging. The cabinet has no partitions and I'm using one slightly broken 5x60 and 2 x 20 watt 5500K floods to light it all. The flowering tent I run straight 12/12. I'm not running the 12/1 gas-lighting flowering schedule if that is what you're asking me. I would like to try that if I ever flower a bunch of sativas at once, which I think would benefit from the shorter lighting schedules. I live in an area where electricity is very expensive so I run my veg cab like that to save money primarily and it works for me.

I will say this about vegging in 12/1, IMHO it's great for sexually mature plants and clones, but I'm not a big fan of vegging young immature plants this way. I had a beautiful, and to me apparently female Jilly Bean plant I was growing in that cab. It smelled great and had that "female" look, especially compared to it's other 3 siblings who were completely different in appearance and ultimately turned out to be males. Then I switched to 12/1 while this plant was about 5 weeks old and sure enough that beautiful sweet smell disappeared and when I cloned one out it turned out to be a male plant too. Now I know you can't really tell if a plant is female or male by looking at it, though I guess with some strains maybe you can. And I've heard that stress will increase the chance of males when maturing regular seeds, though I'm pretty sure genetics plays a role here too. Now Sub's genetics are pretty tight and because of that I'm of the opinion that the plant was stressed into being a male by the lighting schedule. Not the most scientific theory and I only had 4 seeds, but I'll never do 12/1 to a sexually immature plant again.

Take Care and Happy Growing PetFlora!

 

[PSUAGRO.]

Look at you wearing gloves! ha.....don't wanna pollenate any more girls fran??...........So any new pics of the BC, opinions about the strain so far??????
Quite a jungle you got there...........I like your defolation techniques...........Fuck my spelling sucks..... waked and baked with hash!!

Edit: Oh BTW your profile pic scares the shit out of me...........

 

[FranJan]

Edit: Oh BTW your profile pic scares the shit out of me...........

Yeah, it's where my head is at right now. I'm just not digging the SoG style right now and thinking of ditching it for some other style. It's too many plants and I've been reading all these news stories about people getting busted lately so that's getting to me too. And of course what happened to DannyBoy can happen to anyone. So "Bubba" is reminding me that if you're gonna practice "Bubbaponics", you just might fuckin' meet Bubba!

 

[PSUAGRO.]

WTF happened to dannyboy??? like the guy.......pm me

 

[PetFlora]

Yeah, it's where my head is at right now. I'm just not digging the SoG style right now and thinking of ditching it for some other style. It's too many plants and I've been reading all these news stories about people getting busted lately so that's getting to me too. And of course what happened to DannyBoy can happen to anyone. So "Bubba" is reminding me that if you're gonna practice "Bubbaponics", you just might fuckin' meet Bubba!

Put a big pic of him in your front yard. I think that will keep anyone away

 

[Rasser]

Hey Rasser what's up? Thanks for stopping by. I also forgot to add I'm running 4 x 32 watt T8s with this setup too and added that to my last post.

Actually I've never used a HID though I've been around a few grows using them so I have a clue about their heat. And I am using a bit more electricity this year it seems but I'm also always trying to cut consumption by upgrading equipment or removing/simplifying things. Let me also add that my apartment gets extremely hot in the summer, so if it's 96F(35C) it's easily over 100F(37C) in the grow room without AC. Add my grow lights and you'll see that cooling is a very important part of my grow during summer! Last year around August I was running 2 x BS240s, 4 x 35 watts T8s in my flowering tent and 12 x 32 watt CFLs in my veg cab. The CFLs ran hot as hell and were shortly replaced by 12 x 23 watt CFLs. So now I got rid of the CFLs but added 2 5x60s and 2 x 20 watt LED wash lights (these run pretty hot actually) in the grow room and it seems to be a struggle to maintain my temps when it hit 90F(32C)+ this week. I've got plenty of air movement so I do have that on my side but the 5x60s and the wash lights seem to be really adding to the temps in my room and since the room is not 100% sealed the air conditioner works overtime and may be getting old. I really should just suck it up and go get a CO2 setup, but I'm just not liking the idea of running out and buying something that I'm not familiar with and the grow shops around here are run by people who love money more than taking care of people so I don't trust them to help me. Anyway I hope that answers your questions and I'll "see" ya round Rass .

Oki Thanks for clearing things up, it sounds like there is a lot of factors in play,
and CFL bulbs makes a lot of heat that's for sure.

I think the future of indoor grows in hot climate or during the summer month is
water cooled led grow light, that way all heat can be transported outside the
grow room and no ac should be needed.

I'm heading in that direction, to get a quiet and cool grow room myself.

Every thing from the PC world of water cooling could become handy.

What about a nice radiator: 9x120mm FAN's

 

[FranJan]

Hey gang back again with another update. So far so good it seems with nothing but a few minor hiccups. So far no sight of any males in the grow room and I've been trying to germ the seed that I found but no luck after 4 days. Still I'll be patient like a friend has taught me . Temps and humidity have been very good this week and with an exception of a quick stop-over in 88 degree/30% humidity country one morning, things have been holding steady. And just for the record I'm just going to use the larger AC in place the one I'm using. It makes more sense short term and gives me time to save up for a real CO2 setup in the future. I just wish I realized what I could do with CO2 sooner.

Well lets see what everyone in the tent is up to. Seems I'll be saying goodbye to the Blue Cheese Sog. I think I'll harvest and hang them sometime tomorrow. It was not a good crop this time round due to a combination of me thinking it wise to foliar feed them in mid-flower and ending up burning the shit out of them, and once again weak ass roots haunt me. They recovered but I'm not expecting much. One thing though with this batch is that I kept a BS240 panel closer than I usually do and I must admit that whatever is there is solid. The tops are like rocks!


And these poor little root bound TDs are coming to an end soon. They're getting that grey sheen that tells me that trich production is kicking into overdrive and the calyxes will be fattening up soon. I've finally learned my lessons about this TD pheno and that if I ever do run this TD again, I'm making sure it's the only strain in the flower room so I can run a 12/1 flowering cycle.



The Blue Cheese plant is showing signs of nute burn though it seems to be slowing now that the plant is starting to really grow. It's very frustrating to just feed your plant plain water and watch the burn get worse and worse. I guess the mix I'm using is just too hot and the BMO fertilizer doesn't help the situation. Still it's growing and is looking healthy. Buds are getting bigger and the smell is turning on. Maybe I should relax a little?


The great news is that this plant is drinking like no plant I've ever grown under LEDs. Since my last update it's schedule has been this:
6/3- 30 oz Water
6/6- 20 oz Water with Home-made Organic Cal/Mag+ Iron supplement. (We'll get back to this.)
6/7- Finally trimmed her out a bit. No food.
6/9- 24 oz Water
Umm, notice something strange here? I watered this plant 3 times in a week. 3 FUCKIN' TIMES!!!! IN A WEEK BITCHES!!! IN! A! WEEK! I feel like running next door, ringing their doorbell and then just grabbing whoever answers the door by their shoulders and just start jumping up and down while yelling, " Three times, Three times, Three TIMES MUTHAFUCKAS!!!", and then just run back in my house. Seriously. I'm that happy about this.

Or maybe it's just dying. That makes sense too.

Here's a picture of the area with the blue rubber band. No more rubber band and hopefully lots of tops here.

I've also decided to meet any Cal/Mag problems head on and have decided to make my own supplement/fertilizer so I know what's going in my plants and I'll have the ability to vary it accordingly. I'm done depending on lime to bail me out and I just don't like to use wood ash to add calcium. Therefore I've decided to make Cal/Mag using these ingredients;
Food Grade Bone Meal (made of Calcium, some Phosphorous, and a touch of Mag)
Organic Epsom Salt (100% Magnesium Sulfate)
Gentle Iron (aka Vegetarian Iron or Iron Bisglycinate)
Dried Blood (Optional)
I'm using this as a preventative additive/fertilizer that I will use through flowering. This time I made it by mixing 1 oz Cal, 1/2 oz Epsom, 100 mg Iron and 1/4 oz Dried Blood, (1,4,0 right? ), in two cups of water and blended it for 5 minutes on liquify, then added it to the remainder of the gallon I got the 2 cups of water from. I was amazed at how much air got trapped in there with the Cal/Mag so I've now put a blender in my grow tent and am now blending the plain water I'm using to get some air bubbles in the water before I feed/water the plants. I don't know how long I'm going to be using this technique, (or even that it even helps at all), but if the plants stay healthy, it's staying.
Plus I like saying my tent has a blender . Pina-Colada anyone?


The Magic Bud has been a perfect lady so far and is making her daddy happier every day. Her diet is working great, and while not drinking as often as the BC, she's still holding her own at the bar. Her schedule this week so far has been:
6/6- 30 oz food (Mixed 1 gallon of water with 1/2 oz Grow It Green and 1 oz Plant Tonic. I wasn't going to use anymore Plant Tonic but the roots of this plant are excellent and I felt a boost wouldn't interfere with their further development.)
6/7- Trimmed out. Really cleaned out the minor growth. No food.
6/9- 30 oz of of water with Cal/Mag. (20 oz water mixed with 10 oz Cal/Mag supplement)


Her colas are getting bigger day by day and I'll be raising my 5x60 panel 2 inches sometime this week to accommodate her growing. Ohh yeah, I also wanted to show you how I trimmed out the center of the MB;

If we look here



Wait a second.



JEBUS H. Christmas, NOOOOO!



Please no. Not here. Not now,.....not yet.


_________________________________



MUTHAFUCKAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!! Noooo!!!


Bastard! Look at you now, you fuckin cock-a-roach!



Holy shit, did you see that! Damn that was close! Did you see the size of the teeth on that monster? Luckily my manservant distracted him, enabling me to capture him in the blender. I would of have been dinner for that little rat bastard if it wasn't for my soon-to-be-ex-manservent. Here's a clip of what my security cameras got:

[video=youtube;6mXeuJOfUNM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6mXeuJOfUNM[/video]


Dammit no one told me it was gonna be like this. I don't remember Jorge and Ed's chapters about tiger attacks. I remember add dirt, add some water, a little light and you're growing pounds. Yeah right! Where's the tiger attack chapters? Assholes!


Any how now that I'm safe again, what am I going to do with this damn tiger in my grow? Hey, I got it. Let's have a poll! Just leave a post with either an A,B,C, or D, and when I'm not too toasted, I'll tally the votes and see if they mean anything. So your choices are;

A. Do tigers blend? Should we Chop or Liquefy? Remember RIU, besides taking the life of one of nature's most beautiful and majestic animals, you'll be breaking the heart of my poor innocent 11 y.o. niece who told me to guard this tiger with my life. (Shit, I might as well just press the button now with all the sick fucks that run around here!)

B. "FranJan how could you? You've encroached on this poor animal's life by not growing enough cannabis for it to live and thrive in. The attack is clearly your fault, so live and let live." (Please note RIU that if you vote this way I promise on the soul of Hemporer Jack himself that I will make a U$ twenty-five dollar donation to Panthera's Save the Tiger Fund in the name of RIU. There, don't you feel better already .

C. "Dude, I'm a simple person. I just want pictures of some buds and maybe a few dick jokes. That's good enough for me."

D. "Puh-lease! You're not Calvin and that's not Hobbes, so grow the f*ck up and get back to growing for, Bob's sake!"


So RIU what will it be? Life? Death? It's your call. And I'll be back with the results as soon as this bleeding stops.

Hey. Quick question. They grow back?

Right?

 

[Chronikool]

Haahhaha...grateful to see you getting rid of that infestation....dont need that in my crop!

 

[cannabuilding]

Hi FranJan,

Read the whole journals, really nice looking plants you have there man, Subbing for the ride.

Peace to all and happy growing.