"Stand Your Ground" laws, are they a good, or bad idea?

[UncleBuck]

What if you provoke me into assaulting you and I cave in your head with a rock and the life drains out of you at my feet? Maybe not such a good plan in that case.

Is that your best objection? Honestly? America is filled with people just itching to murder somebody, constrained only by their current fear of the law? Now that SYG laws have been passed, all of us murderous Americans can finally go out and provoke some innocent, law abiding citizen into assaulting us so we can then murder them? Pretty weak argument, UB.

lol.

it's only weak if you're for this mental retardation.

you can defend life and limb without SYG. SYG just gives you a pathway to kill someone over stuff. or escalate and provoke a situation where you get to kill someone over loud music.

ya know, retard stuff that only a retard and/or partisan hack would defend.

 

[Canna Sylvan]

Liberals need to read, "The Moon is a Harsh a Mistress," by Robert Heinlen. Then they need to keep their mouths shut!

 

[UncleBuck]

I agree with your assessment of the Joe Horn incident. The prosecutor decided not to prosecute, so it never went before a jury. I think charges were warranted in that case, and I think Horn would have been convicted had the case gone to trial. Prosecutors are politicians and this was Texas...

so you agree with me, but you still defend the pathway to legal murder.



right on, sport.

 

[desert dude]

SYG is a gift from NRA lobbyists so they could sell more guns.



ya see the lady in the blue jacket? that hot little piece of cunt is marion hammer, top lobbyist for the NRA in florida. she seduced a mentally retarded person, jeb bush, with her womanly wiles so that he would sign an unwanted bill into law. she knows how to use her pussy.

no one asked for these laws.

Actually, it seems to me the greatest gift to sell gun sellers was the election of anti-2A Obama.

 

[ginwilly]

Uncle Buck you really didn't say whether you were for or against philosophically. I'm just curious if you feel we SHOULD have the right to defend ourselves if we are truly threatened? I ask because I know some feel we are obligated to run away.

I feel I should be able to "bring a gun to a knife" under very certain specific situations in it's simplest terms. I just feel we need to use caution when trying to legislate common sense.

 

[Canna Sylvan]

so you agree with me, but you still defend the pathway to legal murder.



right on, sport.

There's always attrition.

 

[desert dude]

so you agree with me, but you still defend the pathway to legal murder.



right on, sport.

Horn was an ugly incident.

Here is the greater impact of SYG:

"The law's effect on crime rates is disputed between supporters and critics of the law. The third edition of More Guns, Less Crime (University of Chicago Press, 2010) by John Lott provides the only published, refereed academic study on these laws.[SUP][5][/SUP] The research shows that states adopting “Stand Your Ground”/"Castle doctrine" laws reduced murder rates by 9 percent and overall violent crime by 11 percent, and that occurs even after accounting for a range of other factors such as national crime trends, law enforcement variables (arrest, execution, and imprisonment rates), income and poverty measures (poverty and unemployment rates, per capita real income, as well as income maintenance, retirement, and unemployment payments), demographic changes (broken down by race, gender and age), and the national average changes in crime rates from year-to-year and average differences across states (the fixed year and state effects)."

 

[UncleBuck]

Uncle Buck you really didn't say whether you were for or against philosophically. I'm just curious if you feel we SHOULD have the right to defend ourselves if we are truly threatened?

that right already exists without SYG.

 

[UncleBuck]

Horn was an ugly incident.

Here is the greater impact of SYG:

"The law's effect on crime rates is disputed between supporters and critics of the law. The third edition of More Guns, Less Crime (University of Chicago Press, 2010) by John Lott provides the only published, refereed academic study on these laws.[SUP][5][/SUP] The research shows that states adopting “Stand Your Ground”/"Castle doctrine" laws reduced murder rates by 9 percent and overall violent crime by 11 percent, and that occurs even after accounting for a range of other factors such as national crime trends, law enforcement variables (arrest, execution, and imprisonment rates), income and poverty measures (poverty and unemployment rates, per capita real income, as well as income maintenance, retirement, and unemployment payments), demographic changes (broken down by race, gender and age), and the national average changes in crime rates from year-to-year and average differences across states (the fixed year and state effects)."

gun violence statistics can say whatever you want them to say.

i could drag this abortion of a thread into the gutter by citing how much more likely it is that you kill yourself or a loved one rather than any intruder.

you can already defend yourself if need be without SYG. SYG is just lobbying spam. like rawn pawl.

 

[Canna Sylvan]

Marion Hammer 2016!

 

[desert dude]

gun violence statistics can say whatever you want them to say.

i could drag this abortion of a thread into the gutter by citing how much more likely it is that you kill yourself or a loved one rather than any intruder.

you can already defend yourself if need be without SYG. SYG is just lobbying spam. like rawn pawl.

Come on, UB. In the thread about "conservatives' lack of intelligence" you were defending the refereed studies. Do you only like science that reiterates your preconceived notions?

Go ahead and make your case about "loved ones, etc".

 

[UncleBuck]

Come on, UB. In the thread about "conservatives' lack of intelligence" you were defending the refereed studies. Do you only like science that reiterates your preconceived notions?

Go ahead and make your case about "loved ones, etc".

science =/= statistics



i'll let your fail thread fail all on its own.

 

[Canna Sylvan]

gun violence statistics can say whatever you want them to say.

i could drag this abortion of a thread into the gutter by citing how much more likely it is that you kill yourself or a loved one rather than any intruder.

you can already defend yourself if need be without SYG. SYG is just lobbying spam. like rawn pawl.

I've been shooting real guns before you were born, sport, haven't killed myself or a loved one yet. Maybe I'm not trying hard enough?

 

[UncleBuck]

I've been shooting real guns before you were born, sport, haven't killed myself or a loved one yet. Maybe I'm not trying hard enough?

how many intruders have you killed?

 

[desert dude]

science =/= statistics



i'll let your fail thread fail all on its own.

Actually, statistics is the tool used to interpret reality (over a population sample in this case) and results in... science. You knew that, of course.

Given your responses so far, I think your decision to avoid this thread is a good one.

 

[dredheaded]

Law or no law. I think that if a human beings life is threatened they should be able to defend themselves....I dont think i would call congress and ask them if i could kill this guy thats in my home with a gun. everyone has a SYG limit.

 

[UncleBuck]

Actually, statistics is the tool used to interpret reality (over a population sample in this case) and results in... science. You knew that, of course.

Given your responses so far, I think your decision to avoid this thread is a good one.

lol, you're trying to tell someone who was a few computer science and economics classes short of a math major with a concentration in probability and statistics what statistics are for.

statisticians get the numbers to say whatever we want, plain and simple.

but i see you've already declared victory, which is a pretty good sign that anything but that has happened.

i have to go deliver some treadmills. try not to masturbate to your own posts in my absence.

 

[Canna Sylvan]

how many intruders have you killed?

If it came to that I could. My life is more important than an intruder's.

 

[desert dude]

lol, you're trying to tell someone who was a few computer science and economics classes short of a math major with a concentration in probability and statistics what statistics are for.

statisticians get the numbers to say whatever we want, plain and simple.

but i see you've already declared victory, which is a pretty good sign that anything but that has happened.

i have to go deliver some treadmills. try not to masturbate to your own posts in my absence.

I have taken a few computer science and math classes as well, and even a few statistics classes. I don't claim to be on your vaulted level, but I can generally noodle through an equation or two.

I'm not declaring victory, I am waiting for those who oppose SYG to state their case and hoping that some sort of persuasive argument arises. I stated at the outset that I think SYG makes for good law, and even better philosophical underpinnings. The fundamental freedom to legally inhabit a space, even outside your home, and to meet force with force seems eminently reasonable to me.

 

[Mr Neutron]

and this was Texas...

Damn skippy!