epic win

[mccumcumber]

@been there
I would agree I was failure if I was the only one receiving the benefits and I put nothing in. It's something I have to do anyway and I get something out of it for a smaller fee. I guess the way I view is it's probably gonna be around, and there would have been something else to raise taxes in its place if it didn't pop up. Might as well roll with it.

 

[beenthere]

@been there
I would agree I was failure if I was the only one receiving the benefits and I put nothing in. It's something I have to do anyway and I get something out of it for a smaller fee. I guess the way I view is it's probably gonna be around, and there would have been something else to raise taxes in its place if it didn't pop up. Might as well roll with it.

That's like saying to your two buddies, Hey! I have 20 cents to go in on a case of beer, lets party.

 

[Dr Kynes]

so what would you suggest as an alternative? getting health care for 5% of income at poverty level is a worthwhile expense.

This is not "Healthcare" this is medical insurance!

fuck son, adopting the talking points and demanding instant answers to all problems before one is qualified to dissent is INSANE.

if i was king of the land the federal government would establish free hospitals staffed by doctors who go to school at government expense (full ride with the payment being 10 years of government hospital service)

if you wanted fast service and pretty nurses you could pay for your own private medical care, but anybody with a drivers license could get free medical care at the government hospitals including referrals up the chain to the more specialized hospitals stationed in regional centers.

single payer is fine with me if you actually PAY FOR IT with open obvious and understandable taxation to pay the costs, not bonds, general fund bullshit, or shenanigans.

rolling up medicare, social security and all the other "safety net" programs into a single cabinet level organization (eliminating HHS and their institutional bullshit) would reduce the costs and make it a simple choice for the voters. if you like this and are willing to pay for it, vote yes, if you dont want it, vote no. 50% majority of people and states, BAM single payer with earmarked taxes. no platinum priveledges, special frequent gurney club miles or any other bullshit, just straight up medical care based on triage. of course thats no good, you gotta have creeping socialism instead of a sensible program that has well defined costs and benefits. why let those silly peoples make an informed chjoice? lets just piss all over them and then blame the other side!

 

[Pipe Dream]

Uncle buck is right. Republicans are fucking retarded and that's a fact. nontheist and justanotherhead are fox news regurgitaters. Get a clue guys we as a country have the worst health care at the highest costs, how is that ok with you? A baby born in certain countries in africa has a better chance at survival than a baby born in the U.S. that's fucking awesome. change the channel and have some real world convos ya, quit listening to your TV's lol

You have a point. I recently watched a video about how most of the world doesn't deliver in a hospital and that the surgeons are ill prepared for delivering babies. They want to get it down quickly and use the drugs to force the pregnancy to happen resulting in problems. We spend all this money and have a higher infant mortality rate than underdeveloped countries.

 

[UncleBuck]

so, if you make more than the "poverty level" then you can be "O-taxed" into paying an insurance company 3-10% of your gross income every year. some people cant afford a new expense that siphons away 3-10% of our gross income every year just to pad the pockets of insurance companies.

the alternative is that they go bankrupt when inevitable medical expenses come up, which they can't afford, or they pass their costs on to everyone else.

the costs are already in the system! what don't you get about this?

failure to pay the "O-tax" will result in fees fines garnishment and prison.

more lies again. i can show you where in the bill this is prohibited from happening. if you are so certain that your analysis is correct, go ahead and show it to me in writing. you have not established your premise, you are simply repeating a demonstrable lie.

 

[mccumcumber]

That's like saying to your two buddies, Hey! I have 20 cents to go in on a case of beer, lets party.

No, it's more like talking to your 20 buddies and saying: "hey, everyone wanna throw 5 on a keg." I'm not going on obamacare, I'm using the benefits for my private health care to keep future kids on my plan longer.

 

[Dr Kynes]

You have a point. I recently watched a video about how most of the world doesn't deliver in a hospital and that the surgeons are ill prepared for delivering babies. They want to get it down quickly and use the drugs to force the pregnancy to happen resulting in problems. We spend all this money and have a higher infant mortality rate than underdeveloped countries.

he has no point.

the statistics are lies.

in the US we count every child as a child if the mother goes past a certain point in her pregnancy. late term miscarriages and still-birth count towards infant mortality, all the way up to one year. in most countries (canada included) infant mortality numbers dont get tallied untill well after birth and stop well before a year.

if the same standards are used world-wide the USA is the BEST place to drop a vagina-turd if you want to see that little shit turn into a yard monster, or surly emo tween.

99.5% of all statistics used in forum posts are 23% misinterpretation of data and 75% outright lie, leaving only 45% truth.

 

[UncleBuck]

he has no point.

the statistics are lies.

in the US we count every child as a child if the mother goes past a certain point in her pregnancy. late term miscarriages and still-birth count towards infant mortality, all the way up to one year. in most countries (canada included) infant mortality numbers dont get tallied untill well after birth and stop well before a year.

if the same standards are used world-wide the USA is the BEST place to drop a vagina-turd if you want to see that little shit turn into a yard monster, or surly emo tween.

99.5% of all statistics used in forum posts are 23% misinterpretation of data and 75% outright lie, leaving only 45% truth.

this is all just nonsense conspiracy theory tin foil hat bullshit until you cite it.

i know you like to post your lies and leave them without citation, this is just another instance of it.

 

[nontheist]

he has no point.

the statistics are lies.

in the US we count every child as a child if the mother goes past a certain point in her pregnancy. late term miscarriages and still-birth count towards infant mortality, all the way up to one year. in most countries (canada included) infant mortality numbers dont get tallied untill well after birth and stop well before a year.

if the same standards are used world-wide the USA is the BEST place to drop a vagina-turd if you want to see that little shit turn into a yard monster, or surly emo tween.

99.5% of all statistics used in forum posts are 23% misinterpretation of data and 75% outright lie, leaving only 45% truth.

Haha how that stats are going to be fucked up now, 26 is now a child. Sorry couldn't resist.

 

[Dr Kynes]

more lies again. i can show you where in the bill this is prohibited from happening. if you are so certain that your analysis is correct, go ahead and show it to me in writing. you have not established your premise, you are simply repeating a demonstrable lie.

when the government asses a tax fee fine levy or lein against you, they expect it to be paid. failure to pay any government fee fine tax levy or lien results in civil, and eventually criminal charges. this is a fact. demonstrable, proven, and inescapeable. the retarded cunard of exempting the "O-tax" from criminal or civil charges does not prevent the institution of fees fines levies liens and even prison for refusing to pay the "O-tax" all they promise is that the "O-tax" will be separate from the eventual criminal charges that get you thrown in prison. well thats sweet.

getting assraped for failing to pay the fees accrued for refusing to pay the "O-tax" is so much less invasive than getting assraped for refusing to pay the "O-tax"

or do you propose that dissenters refuse to pay the "O-tax" but the DO pay the fees fines administrative payments and other burdens laid on them for refusing to pay the "O-tax"? wow that makes plenty of sense.

Wow! youre a genius.

 

[canndo]

Now I don't know about this bill but you can most certainly go to jail for not paying most government fines and or tax.

This is incorrect (although it is getting a bit dicey). There are no debtor's prisons in the United States and there are only two situations where one can go to jail for owing money.

the first is owing child support and it has been found akin to owing wages or payroll taxes. The second of course, is .. owing wages or payroll taxes. This narative about people going to jail for owing taxes is simply a nonsensical scare tactic libertarians and the right repeat over and over again for effect and hypberbole. You cannot go to jail for not paying taxes.

You can, however for failing to report taxes owed (it is called fraud), you can for reporting falsely and you can for tax evasion but you do NOT go to jail for owing money.

 

[canndo]

So, the argument I'm hearing is that millions will receive "free" healthcare while others still have to pay for their own. I'm also hearing that the crucial "mandate"' "tax", whatever you call it that was so crucial to funding the entire program doesn't have to paid at all. Well, isn't that just glorious. I guess that's why they now acknowledge that this will cost us at least $2.2 trillion over the next ten years. And I'm sure the actual cost will spiral out of control to the point we would celebrate if it were only $2.2 trillion. Just like EVERY other government social program has always done.

UB, your arguments are only cementing the fact this will be a disaster. But, that's really the point isn't it? Once the program blossoms into it's full nightmarish, economy crippling potential, that's when the single-payer solution will be offered as the only salvation. And the public will embrace it out of fear and the thought of losing their shiny, new entitlement.

It's quite brilliant, if not blatantly obvious. I mean, I've only heard about a dozen Democrat Senators and Congressman say as much.

And your problem with single payer is?

 

[canndo]

And it says in the Constitution the government can't force me to buy shit.......

Where does it say that? Furthermore, we are guaranteed certain right regardless of our personal abilty to pay, why is health care so different than right to assistance of council?

 

[UncleBuck]

when the government asses a tax fee fine levy or lein against you, they expect it to be paid. failure to pay any government fee fine tax levy or lien results in civil, and eventually criminal charges. this is a fact. demonstrable, proven, and inescapeable. the retarded cunard of exempting the "O-tax" from criminal or civil charges does not prevent the institution of fees fines levies liens and even prison for refusing to pay the "O-tax" all they promise is that the "O-tax" will be separate from the eventual criminal charges that get you thrown in prison. well thats sweet.

getting assraped for failing to pay the fees accrued for refusing to pay the "O-tax" is so much less invasive than getting assraped for refusing to pay the "O-tax"

or do you propose that dissenters refuse to pay the "O-tax" but the DO pay the fees fines administrative payments and other burdens laid on them for refusing to pay the "O-tax"? wow that makes plenty of sense.

Wow! youre a genius.

if anything you said was remotely close to being true, you would be more than happy to cite it, shove it in my face, do a happy dance, and chant about how wrong i am.

but since all you are doing is trying to repeat a lie and hope it sticks, you don't.

you can't cite any of the bullshit you are spewing because it is 100% false, a demonstrable lie, rightist propaganda.

be proud of yourself!

 

[canndo]

when the government asses a tax fee fine levy or lein against you, they expect it to be paid. failure to pay any government fee fine tax levy or lien results in civil, and eventually criminal charges. this is a fact. demonstrable, proven, and inescapeable. the retarded cunard of exempting the "O-tax" from criminal or civil charges does not prevent the institution of fees fines levies liens and even prison for refusing to pay the "O-tax" all they promise is that the "O-tax" will be separate from the eventual criminal charges that get you thrown in prison. well thats sweet.

getting assraped for failing to pay the fees accrued for refusing to pay the "O-tax" is so much less invasive than getting assraped for refusing to pay the "O-tax"


.

or do you propose that dissenters refuse to pay the "O-tax" but the DO pay the fees fines administrative payments and other burdens laid on them for refusing to pay the "O-tax"? wow that makes plenty of sense.

Wow! youre a genius.

is noAgain, there debtor's prison in the United States, failure to pay taxes will not result in jail time, this is a nice lament supposedly underlining how horrible and draconian government is, but it is simply not so

 

[ChesusRice]

My first five years of life we spent in Skagway, Alaska, right there by Whitehorse. Believe it or not – this was in the ‘60s – we used to hustle on over the border for health care that we would receive in Whitehorse. I remember my brother, he burned his ankle in some little kid accident thing and my parents had to put him on a train and rush him over to Whitehorse and I think, isn’t that kind of ironic now. Zooming over the border, getting health care from Canada.
-Sarah Palin

 

[canndo]

My first five years of life we spent in Skagway, Alaska, right there by Whitehorse. Believe it or not – this was in the ‘60s – we used to hustle on over the border for health care that we would receive in Whitehorse. I remember my brother, he burned his ankle in some little kid accident thing and my parents had to put him on a train and rush him over to Whitehorse and I think, isn’t that kind of ironic now. Zooming over the border, getting health care from Canada.
-Sarah Palin

Much as I love Palin for her idiocy and malarkey - her inginuity in being the bestest talking point robot in the country, Palin was taken by her parents to get health care in Canada from what I believe and should not be held responsible for her parent's actions.

 

[Dr Kynes]

this is all just nonsense conspiracy theory tin foil hat bullshit until you cite it.

i know you like to post your lies and leave them without citation, this is just another instance of it.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/08/infant_mortality_figures_for_us_are_misleading.html

http://spon.ca/canada’s-reputation-for-low-infant-mortality-takes-stunning-decline/2010/05/24/

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/276952/infant-mortality-deceptive-statistic-scott-w-atlas

no country except the US counts infants who weight less than 500 grams
only the US and canada count infants born alive before the 37th week
only the us counts infants who never take an unaided breath as alive
very early preterm infants are counted as live births only in the US
most developing nations do not report from hospital birth records, they do 5 year questionnaires of the un-evaluated claims of households.
births not taking place in a hospital are generally not counted except in developed nations
developing nations generally only count infant deaths in hospitals.
any cause of death between "live birth" (methodologies vary widely from country to country) and one year count as infant mortality. most nations exclude those caused by violence, accidents, war, famine, neglect or congenital disease (methodologies vary widely from country to country) and the data collection methodology is often modified to improve the position on the UN's list (except in the US where the reporting methodology is enshrined in law)
canada recently had a big debate about how to modify their data collection to "optimize" their position on the UN list, before it hit the press and died.

nice try again bucky. I dont sya anything unles i can back it up. of course you wont read this shit, i might as well post up the online issue of Dog Fancy Magazine or a link to a furry porn image board.

 

[Dr Kynes]

is noAgain, there debtor's prison in the United States, failure to pay taxes will not result in jail time, this is a nice lament supposedly underlining how horrible and draconian government is, but it is simply not so

sometimes i forget to take off my boxing gloves before typing up a post too.

you're right there is not debtors prison in the US. debtor's prisons are prisons where the debtor is locked up for defaulting on PRIVATE DEBT, and he is held until his relatives can pay the debt back. the court's role in debtor's prison is adjudicating whether the civil debt is valid or not, and whether the terms were met.

refusing to pay a debt demanded by the government is a horse of a different colour. anyone who refuses to pay the debts incurred by refusing to pay the "O-tax" will be seeing the inside of a prison cell very shortly.

refusing to pay a tax, fine fee or other government demand for money WILL result in that debt getting bigger and bigger until you are called before a judge and sentenced to jail or even prison for refusing to obey the commands of the court. how is this escaping you? when the courts demand money they can and WILL imprison you for refusing.

pretending otherwise or hiding behind Obamacare's impenetrable texts is patently false. once a court says pay (which they will) you will pay either by a lien against your property, wage garnishment or prison time.

 

[beenthere]

Good luck to anyone that can convince a liberal that free stuff from the government will be paid with their freedom.
If there's any way for these lazy freeloaders to receive some type of entitlement, they will defend it at all costs.