Drug test for welfare

[cannabineer]

No, there aren't 300 million Americans seeking work, but a very high percentage would take a decent job if they could get it. Traditional unemployment numbers are very deceiving because once someone gives up after a couple hundred applications, they aren't considered unemployed anymore. The fact is, there aren't enough jobs to go around - not even close - and the ones that are being created are generally paying very low wages with no benefits and no path to something better.

Well as a first cut, current unemployment numbers are 12.7 million which is 8.2%. (bureau of labor Statistics, numbers released June 1 2012) While I agree that the system seriously underreports the unemployed, if you calculate 100% it's about 105 million. So with 150 million jobs available, and most workers not holding multiple jobs, it looks workable. Mind you, this is what we used to call a "first-order analysis" which is an engineer's in-joke for "wild-ass guess". cn

 

[Gastanker]

What point are you trying to make in reference to unemployment benefits?

 

[purklize]

"Most Americans, if offered, without any need to fill the requirements, would take a better job." Yes, I agree. That's a very true statement.

So a law grad hasn't fulfilled the requirements of becoming a lawyer? He's a whiny loser for expecting more than a barista position to be just "handed" to him?

 

[purklize]

Well as a first cut, current unemployment numbers are 12.7 million which is 8.2%. (bureau of labor Statistics, numbers released June 1 2012) While I agree that the system seriously underreports the unemployed, if you calculate 100% it's about 105 million. So with 150 million jobs available, and most workers not holding multiple jobs, it looks workable. Mind you, this is what we used to call a "first-order analysis" which is an engineer's in-joke for "wild-ass guess". cn

There's 150 million jobs, but something more like 165 million actively seeking employment.

It would seem that a 10% unemployment rate would only make it 2x as hard to find a job as a 5% unemployment rate, but this is not the case. Imbalances magnify exponentially with economics. You end up with orders of magnitude more people applying for every position. It's like with oil - if every barrel is already being purchased, and supply falls by 1%... price is going to go up a lot more than 1%. Look at the Georgia crisis a few years ago. Oil prices shot up, and they only controlled a pipeline that carried about 1% of the Earth's oil.

McDonald's did a highly publicized hiring binge recently. 6% of applicants were offered a position. That's a lower admission rate than Harvard's.

The point I'm trying to make is that if everyone wanted to "succeed," they would find themselves unable to. Jobs, thanks to the malfunctions of finance capital at the highest levels, are truly a scarce commodity these days.

You (talking to Gastanker here) cannot blame workers for systemic problems that they have no control over.

 

[Gastanker]

So a law grad hasn't fulfilled the requirements of becoming a lawyer? He's a whiny loser for expecting more than a barista position to be just "handed" to him?

He's expecting something to be handed to him? Yes, he's whiny. Not sure about him being a loser, I've never met him.

You cannot blame earnings being correlated to the job being performed.

 

[cannabineer]

There's 150 million jobs, but something more like 165 million actively seeking employment.

McDonald's did a highly publicized hiring binge recently. 6% of applicants were offered a position. That's a lower admission rate than Harvard's.

The point I'm trying to make is that if everyone wanted to "succeed," they would find themselves unable to. Jobs, thanks to the malfunctions of finance capital at the highest levels, are truly a scarce commodity these days.

You (talking to Gastanker here) cannot blame workers for systemic problems that they have no control over.

I agree about the bankers, and I'd sharpen "malfunction" to "piracy" myself. cn

 

[Gastanker]

And how are you tying this in with unemployment benefits? If I choose to go to school for architecture which has something like an 80% unemployment rate. And I end up not being able to find employment in architecture. I should be able to go on unemployment until I can find a position in architecture?

 

[cannabineer]

And how are you tying this in with unemployment benefits? If I choose to go to school for architecture which has something like an 80% unemployment rate. And I end up not being able to find employment in architecture. I should be able to go on unemployment until I can find a position in architecture?

Obviously not. I wonder about the folks who get Ph.Ds in Medieval history or musicology. The job market for such specialties is bleak; really the only justification I can find for those degrees is either great passion for the subject (coupled with a willingness to get a run-of -the-mill job), or a sense of certainty that the candidate will snag one of the few academic plums. cn

 

[Gastanker]

Obviously not. I wonder about the folks who get Ph.Ds in Medieval history or musicology. The job market for such specialties is bleak; really the only justification I can find for those degrees is either great passion for the subject (coupled with a willingness to get a run-of -the-mill job), or a sense of certainty that the candidate will snag one of the few academic plums. cn

I attended a University graduation a few months ago and it was astounding. At least 65% of the graduates were in sociology. Which I think is an important field of study for everyone but professionally isn't in huge demand right now...at all...

 

[kpmarine]

I attended a University graduation a few months ago and it was astounding. At least 65% of the graduates were in sociology. Which I think is an important field of study for everyone but professionally isn't in huge demand right now...at all...

It seems at least half my friends that have gotten a 4 year degree recently, have been sudying to be social workers. Then they all asked "Why can't I find anybody to hire me? I went to college!".

 

[shrxhky420]

They say that 50% of college grads can not find work in their field of study, regardless of what field it is... Is college worth it? You just come out broke and jobless... it's a tough nut to crack... stay high

 

[ANC]

One of the most intrinsic properties of capitalism is to shelve down jobs to lower and lower skilled(paid) workers.

 

[dirtsurfr]

that's because jobs are easier to do with the help of technology.
I think they need to go to a 30 hour work week and pay into our own retirement needs.

 

[cannabineer]

One of the most intrinsic properties of capitalism is to shelve down jobs to lower and lower skilled(paid) workers.

I don't think socialism dodges that either. cn

 

[kpmarine]

They say that 50% of college grads can not find work in their field of study, regardless of what field it is... Is college worth it? You just come out broke and jobless... it's a tough nut to crack... stay high

Right now, I know some people that have to keep going to school. They can't afford to support themselves otherwise. Definitely a tough situation.

 

[Winter Woman]

Well, if we ever go on welfare I guess the old man will have to give up mmj for awhile.

 

[cannabineer]

Well, if we ever go on welfare I guess the old man will have to give up mmj for awhile.

No worries yet. This thread is speculative. cn

 

[Winter Woman]

I know. I'm just making sure that everyone knows who will have to pee into that bottle.

Edit: if there ever is a need and a requirement.

 

[kpmarine]

In response to the subject of this thread. I think that welfare should not support your vices, whatever they may be. I do see the reason why drug testing welfare recipients seems reasonable. However, it seems like we could do better than just "Oh, you tested positive? No money for you!". That's the problem you encounter with taxpayer-funded welfare though, there's always someone that isn't happy with how it is dispensed. Since it's hard to regulate without seeming discriminatory, it's also stayed fairly easy to game the system. That, in turn, creates more anger and distrust in the system's method of handing out money. Sorry, I tend to ramble a bit on occasion.

 

[1Shot1Kill]

This is a damn good idea.. If one can afford to use drugs then they shouldn't need assistance from responsible people to provide food for them, section 8 housing, babysitting payment, and/or gas cards. Just sayin, priorities...