Since I have been a caregiver I have been propositioned by a number of patients who need an assigned caregiver. Time and time again patients propose the same arrangement. They make me their caregiver and I give them free medicine every month say an ounce or two and then anything after that they demand at most half price. Is this fair? To those that grow what do you think about this? To patients who don't grow is this fair? I would like to start a civil discussion about this issue and bring many things to light from both sides which are often over looked. So what do you think? What is a patient's" grow rights" worth? What is a quality grower's end product worth? Is it free to grow? Whose plants are actually being grown? If a patient enables someone to grow legally then how is the grower beholden to the patient? These are underlying issues that should be brought to the surface and discussed. Please no personal attacks or intentionally offensive responses. I realize this can be a contentious issue but we are all adults and should be able to discuss this civilly.
What are a patients "grow rights" really worth?
- Thread starter irieie
- Start date
smoke and coke
Well-Known Member
idk i am neither a caregiver or a patient but i am both because i supply my needs and thats it.
if i needed a caregiver then i would expect a reasonable amount of free meds as agreed upon. the extra that was grown from my plants would be donated to the caregiver for expenses. its a win win for both and as a patient not liking that, then i would grow my own and keep the extra.
if i needed a caregiver then i would expect a reasonable amount of free meds as agreed upon. the extra that was grown from my plants would be donated to the caregiver for expenses. its a win win for both and as a patient not liking that, then i would grow my own and keep the extra.
You say "my plants" and " donate back to the caregiver." So the plants belong to the patient even though someone else got all the supplies, effort space and knowledge to actually produce those plants. And the patients don't owe anything to the person actually making the medicine appear? Not even a recoup on the mandatory investment needed to start any grow? I can see why many caregivers say fuck their patients and keep everything. I don't think this is the right thing to do, but if you are the one spending time money effort and knowledge on a grow to have to fork over a portion of your hard worked harvest to someone who sat on their ass the whole grow. How does doing nothing make a patient entitled to anything?
1337hacker
Active Member
Hey Irie... I'm a caregiver as well to give you some perspective where I am coming from:
Both of the patients I am caregiving for right now are both long-time friends... Neither one were utilizing their grow rights, and were never going to do so. The deal we made is :
1) They paid the 200 dollar caregiver fee, in turn I gave them an ounce
2) Every ounce that they need afterwards, flat 200 dollar fee
3) I provide concentrates made from the plant trim
So... for 200 dollars a pop, they are receiving higher quality meds than they could receive on the streets or at a local "compassion" club. They know that everything they are getting is grown organically, and they even get some concentrates on top of that. Furthermore, they are able to select strains and work with me to find the strains that work best for their conditions. I am not committing myself to providing any free meds, but I'd like to make it so that in the future I can possibly provide them for cheaper either by reinvesting in the grow , or by working to become more efficient in my grow style.
It's best for you to run the caregiver thing like a business with ins and outs, because if you fail to do so you will not be able to provide medicine for your patients consistently. Charging the 200 dollars an ounce right now is allowing me to cover my short-term costs so that I can always be harvesting / growing with no down-time, as well as being able to reinvest in more efficient methods that will allow me to charge less in the future.
My hard work (literally worked in my room for 7 hours yesterday cleaning), ends up showing in the end product, which is why I haven't had complaints yet, or any of this "my plants" entitlement. Trust me, there is no question between my patients and I about who grew these plants or whose plants they are...they know if I didn't do the work the medicine wouldn't be possible.
That also being said, I don't recruit my patients with the "promise" of future meds. I have meds ready to go for them immediately so there is never that period of dissatisfaction.
Both of the patients I am caregiving for right now are both long-time friends... Neither one were utilizing their grow rights, and were never going to do so. The deal we made is :
1) They paid the 200 dollar caregiver fee, in turn I gave them an ounce
2) Every ounce that they need afterwards, flat 200 dollar fee
3) I provide concentrates made from the plant trim
So... for 200 dollars a pop, they are receiving higher quality meds than they could receive on the streets or at a local "compassion" club. They know that everything they are getting is grown organically, and they even get some concentrates on top of that. Furthermore, they are able to select strains and work with me to find the strains that work best for their conditions. I am not committing myself to providing any free meds, but I'd like to make it so that in the future I can possibly provide them for cheaper either by reinvesting in the grow , or by working to become more efficient in my grow style.
It's best for you to run the caregiver thing like a business with ins and outs, because if you fail to do so you will not be able to provide medicine for your patients consistently. Charging the 200 dollars an ounce right now is allowing me to cover my short-term costs so that I can always be harvesting / growing with no down-time, as well as being able to reinvest in more efficient methods that will allow me to charge less in the future.
My hard work (literally worked in my room for 7 hours yesterday cleaning), ends up showing in the end product, which is why I haven't had complaints yet, or any of this "my plants" entitlement. Trust me, there is no question between my patients and I about who grew these plants or whose plants they are...they know if I didn't do the work the medicine wouldn't be possible.
That also being said, I don't recruit my patients with the "promise" of future meds. I have meds ready to go for them immediately so there is never that period of dissatisfaction.
Wolfhound
Active Member
Those that have never grown have no idea what the cost is in your time & labor when. Then to have a quality grow area & upkeep plus the nutrients, electric bill, & ro water. 24hr a day care, can't go too far. Then there's bugs, mold, & other problems that you just may have to deal with too. When you have more than a couple of plants it is a job.
This is a fair deal for both patient and caregiver. I have a very similar arrangement with my patients. And even though I know I could go and get more than the 200$ an ounce from other patients, I would always reserve for them first. If you are a patient expecting free meds I don't think your caregiver would take the same deal. Most legit caregivers who know how to grow have the above deal. That's what I have gathered from many I have talked t If you are a patient and want a quality caregiver look for a deal like this. Or you could keep wasting your time with caregivers who don't know how to grow medicine.
smoke and coke
Well-Known Member
well i grow my own and smoke alot. it doesnt cost nearly as much to grow as it would for me to buy what i need. the quality i have is far better than if i was buying it. after the initial set up there isnt much costs unless you need to upgrade or replace broken parts.
and when i say my plants, meaning i am allowing the caregiver to grow my quantity of plants in turn for free meds and the caregiver keeps the extra. and by far that is a great deal considering you can easily grow twice what the patient needs with their alotted # of plants. maybe i dont get this whole caregiver patient thing and i am glad to be self sufficient. any extra deals between patient and caregiver should be made at the begining.
and when i say my plants, meaning i am allowing the caregiver to grow my quantity of plants in turn for free meds and the caregiver keeps the extra. and by far that is a great deal considering you can easily grow twice what the patient needs with their alotted # of plants. maybe i dont get this whole caregiver patient thing and i am glad to be self sufficient. any extra deals between patient and caregiver should be made at the begining.
smoke and coke
Well-Known Member
200 an oz. isnt bad considering i could 400 an oz. for mine. so yeah if i am buying great but wouldnt want to sell for 200 an oz., although its better than giving free meds away. lol
UnderBelly
Active Member
I'm pretty sure grow rights are valued at whatever price you could value eight to ten years in prison. As a starting point, I think that's realistic, considering the alternative.
Legal implications aside, I know that cultivation is often as therapeutic as the medicine itself, so grow rights have some inherent medical value as well.
As a practical matter, grow rights are probably valued at whatever the cost of moving outside the CHAA exclusion zone would be. That's not the same value for everyone.
There's also the risk mitigation element -- it's a safe bet that if patients stop growing because dispensaries open up, dispensaries have a history of being shut down, but a patient cannot simply destroy a grow in order to comply with the law, and then turn it back on when the legal supply of medicine disappears.
I see practically no one raising a genuine campaign to bring rights to Arizona patients, and I say "practically no one" even though Bill Heyes did more harm than good so far.
Legal implications aside, I know that cultivation is often as therapeutic as the medicine itself, so grow rights have some inherent medical value as well.
As a practical matter, grow rights are probably valued at whatever the cost of moving outside the CHAA exclusion zone would be. That's not the same value for everyone.
There's also the risk mitigation element -- it's a safe bet that if patients stop growing because dispensaries open up, dispensaries have a history of being shut down, but a patient cannot simply destroy a grow in order to comply with the law, and then turn it back on when the legal supply of medicine disappears.
I see practically no one raising a genuine campaign to bring rights to Arizona patients, and I say "practically no one" even though Bill Heyes did more harm than good so far.
headtreep
Well-Known Member
How so I'm curious?
Lucius Vorenus
Well-Known Member
NOTHING.
That is what a patients grow rights are currently worth to me.
LOL @ paying $200yr for the right to give someone an ounce each month.
$90z is what it costs to grow quality herb, plus your time if that is worth anything to you. If you are growing less than 10 plants with the hopes of in some way being very "profitable" you are going to be pretty sorely disappointed in the risk vs reward IMO.
That is what a patients grow rights are currently worth to me.
LOL @ paying $200yr for the right to give someone an ounce each month.
$90z is what it costs to grow quality herb, plus your time if that is worth anything to you. If you are growing less than 10 plants with the hopes of in some way being very "profitable" you are going to be pretty sorely disappointed in the risk vs reward IMO.
Chronicseeker
New Member
If you have someone elses rights then you are more than likely growing more than 10 plants... It may be worth nothing to you now but when dispensaries come and you want to continue to grow, the rights of the small amount of patients authorized by the state, will be priceless.
BeaverHuntr
Well-Known Member
That actually sounds like a good idea.
Lucius Vorenus
Well-Known Member
Actually those rights will go bye bye once Dispensaries open unless your Patients are in locations that will be 25 miles from a Dispensary.
No only once they go to renew and a dispensary has opened. Jeez by now we should all know the deal.
Lucius Vorenus
Well-Known Member
right. most renewals will be coming soon after those Dispensary licenses have been issued. Don't assume those Dispensaries won't have their doors open quick. Folks who will be getting a license know who they are already.
Chronicseeker
New Member
You basically just restated what I said in my post....
Note: "the small amount of patients" i.e. the ones 25 miles outside of a sanctioned area. Sorry if that was not clear.
Corso312
Well-Known Member
I do not think that is a "fair " deal for them man, ...I look at it like this.... 200 and ounce is still 3200 a pound...not bad...you would not be able to cover your ass legally without the 2 cards from those patients...I would want more if I were them...like a free ounce a month and 200$ per ounce if they want more than that...I am not a patient or caregiver but I have grown for years and know exactly what is involved in growing.
Chronicseeker
New Member
If you are not using your grow rights and do not know where to turn, you are forced to pay $300-$400 all day at compassion clubs. 200 a zip for medical-grade is a steal. Everyone wants something for free, my patients get a quarter for free every month. If they need more then they have to help out. If you are not using your grow rights any discounted meds should be appreciated given the expensive, ,profiteering scene in AZ.