TGA Strains Stable?

[skunkd0c]

From what i can make of this, it seems folk have had issues with subcool for some time
but were unable to voice them because of how much subcool was loved here by so many and put on a pedestal like so many breeders are

i think charliebud is right, its silly to blame the breeders , they are cashing in on a market of idiots and fanboys
who change opinions and loyalties like the weather

now the tide has turned so to speak , people now feel it is "ok" to speak out about subcools strains without the fear of criticism
that would explain all the negative comments about him lately.. seem's to have come on with a great snowball effect
so many threads calling him out

will subcool become the next arjan .. the king of ladyboyz ?
the drama continues lol

 

[CharlieBud]

How about I hate no one and call it how I see it.. Sub been running this bs for years.. I remember when he first came with this plushberry line saying Tga first kush.. I asked one simple question what is in black cherry soda that makes it a kush? His answer -" it's kush because I said its kush" then deletes the thread so no one can see how much of a ass he just made of himself. Now you take that type of attitude the fact that I've grown nothin but males out of all the gear I tried and friends of mine reporting multiple hermie problems on multiple strains.. I feel sorry for him rather then hate him.

Oh I feel your pain and aggravation. I just don't see him as unusual in the quality of the genetics vs. the overall marketplace. Its really amazing to look at what would happen overnight if cannabis went 100% legal and breeders, growers, and dispensaries were forced to play by the usual market rules. As well as compete with the professional agricultural community.

 

[althor]

How about I hate no one and call it how I see it.. Sub been running this bs for years.. I remember when he first came with this plushberry line saying Tga first kush.. I asked one simple question what is in black cherry soda that makes it a kush? His answer -" it's kush because I said its kush" then deletes the thread so no one can see how much of a ass he just made of himself. Now you take that type of attitude the fact that I've grown nothin but males out of all the gear I tried and friends of mine reporting multiple hermie problems on multiple strains.. I feel sorry for him rather then hate him.

I have been wondering, what is it that seems to cause subs gear to have such a high ratio of males? I have never seen so many males from one breeder before.

 

[wyteberrywidow]

Tell me about it. I just have to look the other way now.

 

[skunkd0c]

I have been wondering, what is it that seems to cause subs gear to have such a high ratio of males? I have never seen so many males from one breeder before.

i had some good luck with blues from ugorg on my most recent run 6 females from 8 seeds
don't think i have had that much luck before lol

 

[racerboy71]

I have been wondering, what is it that seems to cause subs gear to have such a high ratio of males? I have never seen so many males from one breeder before.

well, duh, it's growers error..

 

[lahadaextranjera]

There must be more than 12 different breeders in here !! This is where my seeds come from, unless I'm clone swapping !!

 

[Jogro]

Breeder: Someone who takes multiple established landrace or hybrid lines, crosses them, selects from their offspring to isolate specific desired traits from each of the parents, then recrosses (or back-crosses) and reselects from succeeding generations until the resulting progeny both have the desired traits and have been genetically stabilized into their own true-breeding line (or close to it). To do this right typically takes selections involving hundreds of plants, and at least five generations, meaning any "breeding" project intended to create a TRUE new strain will necessarily take over a year, typically closer to two years, and in some cases even longer than that. Plant count constraints mean that true breeding projects are typically not something that amateurs can undertake.

Pollen-chucker: The most blatant example of this is someone who takes two plants (which may not even themselves represent stable lines), crosses them into an F1 hybrid then renames the F1 into a "new" strain and sells it as such. The trend here has been for the new wave breeders to start these projects using elite "clone only" strains (which themselves are usually hybrids).

The "better" pollen chuckers may do some backcrossing and/or selection over a few generations to try and reduce the offspring variability.

Hybrid vigor means that its definitely possible to get exceptionally good plants this way, but without going through multiple generations of selection, they're effectively "mutts". Unless the cross was done using only F1 seeds from established true breeding lines, plants bred this way aren't stable (in the sense that many different phenotypes may occur in a pack of seeds), and since hermaphrodite-prone genes haven't been selected out over multiple generations, these plants may have a greater-than-usual chance of going hermie.

Note that in both cases, the crosser is typically starting with genetics they didn't have a hand in creating. Ultimately all medical cannabis lines go back to landrace strains that have been selectively bred by people for literally thousands of years, and nobody alive that's breeding can honestly say that they didn't originally start off with genetics that haven't been worked over many many generations before by other breeders/growers.

But there is quite a difference between the two categories in what is being done, and why.

 

[Jogro]

I have been wondering, what is it that seems to cause subs gear to have such a high ratio of males? I have never seen so many males from one breeder before.

I've never grown his gear; so I can't say whether or not the premise here is true, or specifically why.

What I can say is that, in nature, plants will approximate an exact 50-50 M/F ratio due to selective pressure.

Growing indoors under artificial selective pressure to maintain females, lots of strains will actually put out more females than males.

If a strain consistently puts out more males than females, then that's got to be an issue with the plants genetics, how the seeds are being grown, or more likely both.

 

[The Mantis]

Breeder: Someone who takes multiple established landrace or hybrid lines, crosses them, selects from their offspring to isolate specific desired traits from each of the parents, then recrosses (or back-crosses) and reselects from succeeding generations until the resulting progeny both have the desired traits and have been genetically stabilized into their own true-breeding line (or close to it). To do this right typically takes selections involving hundreds of plants, and at least five generations, meaning any "breeding" project intended to create a TRUE new strain will necessarily take over a year, typically closer to two years, and in some cases even longer than that. Plant count constraints mean that true breeding projects are typically not something that amateurs can undertake.

Pollen-chucker: The most blatant example of this is someone who takes two plants (which may not even themselves represent stable lines), crosses them into an F1 hybrid then renames the F1 into a "new" strain and sells it as such. The trend here has been for the new wave breeders to start these projects using elite "clone only" strains (which themselves are usually hybrids).

The "better" pollen chuckers may do some backcrossing and/or selection over a few generations to try and reduce the offspring variability.

Hybrid vigor means that its definitely possible to get exceptionally good plants this way, but without going through multiple generations of selection, they're effectively "mutts". Unless the cross was done using only F1 seeds from established true breeding lines, plants bred this way aren't stable (in the sense that many different phenotypes may occur in a pack of seeds), and since hermaphrodite-prone genes haven't been selected out over multiple generations, these plants may have a greater-than-usual chance of going hermie.

Note that in both cases, the crosser is typically starting with genetics they didn't have a hand in creating. Ultimately all medical cannabis lines go back to landrace strains that have been selectively bred by people for literally thousands of years, and nobody alive that's breeding can honestly say that they didn't originally start off with genetics that haven't been worked over many many generations before by other breeders/growers.

But there is quite a difference between the two categories in what is being done, and why.

Well put and that was my point too. Most of all the seed producers/breeders out there have some 'elite' clone crossed with a 'proven' male. however, i've yet to find more than a few that show any pics documenting their work and/or selection process. Unless you make your own ibl or get lucky to find some, you are really at the markets'/breeders mercy. imo, the more time, pics, and documentation a breeder has the more people will trust and believe them. everyone starts somewhere.

 

[Jar Man]

I think its more attitude over the hermieing issue, you can just go along with a my shit dont skink its the grower fault
attitude and exspect there not to be some fallout!

But if so few of you are raggin relative to so many informed more growers with some actual credibility, maybe some here need to take a long look in the mirror. I did some checking around online to see if maybe something was going on with TGA I hadn't heard yet. I saw hardly anything except good reports on TGA's exceptional gear. Indeed! Y'all full of it!

 

[Jar Man]

From what i can make of this, it seems folk have had issues with subcool for some time
but were unable to voice them because of how much subcool was loved here by so many and put on a pedestal like so many breeders are

i think charliebud is right, its silly to blame the breeders , they are cashing in on a market of idiots and fanboys
who change opinions and loyalties like the weather

now the tide has turned so to speak , people now feel it is "ok" to speak out about subcools strains without the fear of criticism
that would explain all the negative comments about him lately.. seem's to have come on with a great snowball effect
so many threads calling him out

will subcool become the next arjan .. the king of ladyboyz ?
the drama continues lol

No such tide has turned except in your mind. The numbers who still praise TGA faaaaaaaaar, did you hear that? I said, faaaaaaaaaaaar outweigh the few wanna' be breeders on here. Let's hear someone actually try to say Vortex isn't really that good, or bash Qrazy Train. Most all review sites claim they're among the best of the best. They all TGA paid mouthpieces, or what?

 

[SketchyGrower]

But if so few of you are raggin relative to so many informed more growers with some actual credibility, maybe some here need to take a long look in the mirror. I did some checking around online to see if maybe something was going on with TGA I hadn't heard yet. I saw hardly anything except good reports on TGA's exceptional gear. Indeed! Y'all full of it!

[video=youtube;r2YyTpXkges]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2YyTpXkges[/video]

 

[wyteberrywidow]

But if so few of you are raggin relative to so many informed more growers with some actual credibility, maybe some here need to take a long look in the mirror. I did some checking around online to see if maybe something was going on with TGA I hadn't heard yet. I saw hardly anything except good reports on TGA's exceptional gear. Indeed! Y'all full of it!

So u don't see no reports of hermies? Your full of it.. I see a new report everyday on hermies in subs gear.. I see even more reports about all the crazy phenos in his gear..

 

[wyteberrywidow]

No such tide has turned except in your mind. The numbers who still praise TGA faaaaaaaaar, did you hear that? I said, faaaaaaaaaaaar outweigh the few wanna' be breeders on here. Let's hear someone actually try to say Vortex isn't really that good, or bash Qrazy Train. Most all review sites claim they're among the best of the best. They all TGA paid mouthpieces, or what?

Let's hear someone say cheeze quake was weak? I did
Lets hear someone say they got hermies in subs gear? I did
lets hear someone say they didn't find a keeper in 30 seeds but yet found hermies? I did
lets see how sub reacts to threads about his gear in his section when he hears about hermies? I did and yu know what he does? Close threads and deletes them lmao.

 

[Trulife69]

For the most part I dont think people are in here just to bash sub..I started this thread because my last cpl grows with subs seeds havn't gone so well...And to boot my buddies who popped some of his seeds ended up with herms.. and they never ran into hermies until switching to Subs stuff.
For me the first go around I might have stressed them slightly but not much and she threw nanners..Temps and RH are always on the money,good enviorment,no light leaks what soever and no nute burn..But 1st round with tga Ace of Spades...both girls threw bananas close to wk5 so I tossed the one with more bananas and just kept the other..I looked for bananas everyday and plucked them and only found maybe 12 seeds after harvest..not the end of the world but what a pain to pick bananas every couple days....Then I cleaned the entire room,No half assed either..fans,inside &outside lights,filters,pots etc...I fire up 2 more AOS and they both threw bananas around wk 4,I just was pisst and tossed them..No nute burn,Not light leak,healthy,perfect RH and temps..But hermied just like first round with AOS....So now I say F*ck the AOS and toss em out of veg. I had some vortex ready to throw into flower..4 to be exact.. I did the same routine and cleaned like a tweaker! And checked hardcore for a light leak but none,nada,zelch. I throw the vortex in..It starts off good,seems vortex can handle the nutes..I never had any burns..a cpl days after wk 5 she threw some bananas..not a ton..Now They are almost ready to go,they look good and I have found a few beans but it looks like i will make it out ok But WTF?! Even if it turns out ok,thats crap. You say look in the mirror..What do you think people do when it happens to them the first time..you blame yourself and then after the repeated process of subs seeds throwing naners it starts to point back at him...We have all read threads where people say They cant hermie a plant haha,maybe I should just tell them to get some from sub..Say what you want but his strains are unstable,I know,I have been fucking around with them since the beginning of the year. All I started the thread for was "Are his strains stable" and wanted to know what people had to say and their experiences with his shit were...Be mad if ya want but Im not chasing phenos around in circles to hopefully find that one keeper...My buddies never hermie their shit and they had the same probs but with plushberry,AOS and Heard kaboom is unstable". Im not bashing the guy,I just wish I would have paid a little more attention to what I got...Like I said,I bet you can pop that killer strain but how much of a headache do you want?? I will never purchase another seed from sub

 

[Trulife69]

As I said before,I didn't not start this thread to bash sub,but there has been some good education on subs stuff through the pages

 

[Kite High]

No such tide has turned except in your mind. The numbers who still praise TGA faaaaaaaaar, did you hear that? I said, faaaaaaaaaaaar outweigh the few wanna' be breeders on here. Let's hear someone actually try to say Vortex isn't really that good, or bash Qrazy Train. Most all review sites claim they're among the best of the best. They all TGA paid mouthpieces, or what?

you licking sub's nuts alot...jus sayin

 

[Jar Man]

I could go on and on and on and on with these very same sources that prove just who's full of it here:

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 05:07 PM
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Here are a few VORTEX grown in roots and fed Botanicare nutes. Apparently while these were in veg and I was living in a cave somewhere, it won the medical cannabis cup? Now, after harvest, I know why. Some of the best extreme nausea meds I've had in addition to several other pluses.


It all started with a good ol' 10 pack of TGA Vortex I had laying around for about a 6 months, heck- maybe more?.. You see I had picked it up initially thinking it would be mediocre; and all the 'hype' (Which I now think of as gospel) that Sub had been spreading around the forums documenting his elite breeding experiments was all a ploy to make seed money (much like some other breeders strain videos). After growing other breeders gear (4 new strains for 20 grows) and only finding a couple keepers, while reading and falling in love with "the book of DANK," I gotta wild idea to sprout my TGA gear I'd purchased some time earlier.

Thinking nothing of it I didnt even label the strains going in, just threw the beans with 5 other breeders gear into some towels and onto the heating pad they went (yes sub I cooked your gear and it sprouted, but I use a thermostat controller).... From percentages only I had 8 of the 10 Vortex beans pop along with a troop of LA confidential, lemon skunk, and less than impressive others.... Vegetative growth was uneventful for all as they gathered the strength and underground infrastructure for explosive flower development. Vegging everything to a height of 24" and growing in a loose SOG I unflinchingly threw all of my the potential girls and studs into 12/12 and waited like a kid for x-mas. I was in need of meds for myself and my patient and couldn't wait any longer for them to indicate sex and get this flower power show on the road.

The 8 vortex went on to produce 2 males and 6 females and when the males indicated their plans they were seperated and deprived from any real tlc (very low light, no transplant, no nutes, no ph'ing the water).. After much thought I made the chop and only kept one male long enough for some selective seed making on one branch per plant. The females had already began developing quickly as they had the power of HPS and nutrients on their side to rush them ahead of the males development."

 

[Jar Man]

you licking sub's nuts alot...jus sayin

That the best you can come up with? Likewise, I'm sure!