Benificials vs H2O2 in Hydro

BUdbuddysmile

Active Member
I am new to hydro. I am currently running an Eb and Flow system with Hydroton. Popular debate of should I use benificials or H2O2? I imagine if you were going to use all organics, benificials would be really the only thing you would want to use because H2O2 will oxidize your beneficial life. I am currently using synthetics, so would it be best just to use H2O2? Normally I would run AN's benificials because they dominate and I have been through veg. Roots are looking great. They are clearly working fantastically. I just wonder if its kind of a waste in hydro? H2O2 is waaaay less expensive and keeps the roots nice and clean. Has anyone done a proper comparison? Please share:) Thank you. :shock:
 

hellraizer30

Rebel From The North
I used to use h202 then went to bleach for a bit, then i found benificials.
when using bennys with (synthetics) i ran into the same issue the bad bactiria would never die, it just was held at bay.
and if you missed adding you were fucked! And it cost a bunch. Then came bleach and it worked alot better at killing
bactiria, but would spoil certain synthetic nutes and leave a bad resadue. And then i read hisenberg thread and started
brewing teas. Now with tea bad bactiria was eliminated and root growth was 50x better and ph was stable, water uptake
was increased and i found i could miss a add back and still be safe. Now all this is with synthetics, using organic nutes
in hydro isnt a good idea, teas are fine though.

With all that said i now dont brew teas i use botanicairs aquashield and AN piarana
i mix the aqua shield at 7ml per gal and the piarana at 2ml per gal. And have zero
issues and root structure like no other.
 

supdro

Well-Known Member
I use aquashield up till flush..if u have issues in flush which I doubt I use h2o2. Good luck
 

mrecio87

Active Member
I used to use h202 then went to bleach for a bit, then i found benificials.
when using bennys with (synthetics) i ran into the same issue the bad bactiria would never die, it just was held at bay.
and if you missed adding you were fucked! And it cost a bunch. Then came bleach and it worked alot better at killing
bactiria, but would spoil certain synthetic nutes and leave a bad resadue. And then i read hisenberg thread and started
brewing teas. Now with tea bad bactiria was eliminated and root growth was 50x better and ph was stable, water uptake
was increased and i found i could miss a add back and still be safe. Now all this is with synthetics, using organic nutes
in hydro isnt a good idea, teas are fine though.

With all that said i now dont brew teas i use botanicairs aquashield and AN piarana
i mix the aqua shield at 7ml per gal and the piarana at 2ml per gal. And have zero
issues and root structure like no other.
Hellraizer can you explain a little bit more about bleach (sodium hyprochlorite) and how it spoils certain nutrients? Currently using bleach to keep a sterile reservoir after H202 did not prevent white slime buildup in my reservoir. I try to use as little bleach as possible to keep any salt from building up but could never find any hard evidence that bleach or sodium hypochlorite was actually toxic to plants. Its also very inexpensive compared to bennies. I also plan to add drip clean on my next run to take care of any salt buildups.
 

hellraizer30

Rebel From The North
Drip clean is good stuff! As for bleach, when it spoils the nutes your res will turn murky and smell of a dirty sock!
as to why it does it i got no clue! Not sure of the chemical make up!
 

mrecio87

Active Member
Drip clean is good stuff! As for bleach, when it spoils the nutes your res will turn murky and smell of a dirty sock!
as to why it does it i got no clue! Not sure of the chemical make up!
Interesting, the only time this has happened to me was when I wasn't adding enough bleach. Each time within a week of adding 2.5 ml per 12g every 2-3 days my rez got cloudy and smelled like old mop water and I would need to change the res. I thought it wasn't working any better than H202 but didn't get slime like I did with H202 so I upped the bleach to 5ml per 12 or .4 ml per gallon and have had a clear, odorless reservoir the rest of my grow. I now change my reservoir every two weeks which was my original goal but never got past a week without a problem until I upped the bleach.

How much bleach did you use when you ran it?

I am also thinking about going with Calcium Hypochlorite ( pool shock ) instead cause I am paranoid about salt buildup and figure the calcium would go unnoticed in the reservoir.
 

hellraizer30

Rebel From The North
Interesting, the only time this has happened to me was when I wasn't adding enough bleach. Each time within a week of adding 2.5 ml per 12g every 2-3 days my rez got cloudy and smelled like old mop water and I would need to change the res. I thought it wasn't working any better than H202 but didn't get slime like I did with H202 so I upped the bleach to 5ml per 12 or .4 ml per gallon and have had a clear, odorless reservoir the rest of my grow. I now change my reservoir every two weeks which was my original goal but never got past a week without a problem until I upped the bleach.

How much bleach did you use when you ran it?

I am also thinking about going with Calcium Hypochlorite ( pool shock ) instead cause I am paranoid about salt buildup and figure the calcium would go unnoticed in the reservoir.
7drops per gal uncented bleach
 

mrecio87

Active Member
that's not much less than what I am adding. with my dropper 22 drops = 1ml so ~9 drops for .4 ml per gallon. sorry it didn't work out for you but i really think if you just slowly added more to your rez until you find whats just enough to keep it sterile it would work great for you. But if what your doing now is working then why bother changing anything. I wouldnt mind giving bennies a shot they just seem so much more expensive for what can be done with a dollar gallon of bleach.
 

boombats

Member
Sorry if It gets long I will try to keep it short also I am no english major so please excuse the poorly structured wall of text. (also Im a lil baked)

-Organics have no place in hydro(opinion alert).....Bleach as a general additive is used in a .5 ml per gal (6-8 drops). At this ratio is use is limited to having an oxidizing and sterilizing effect, while helping maintain longer life a nutrient solution and fighting off pathogens.
-Things can get funky in a rez that is using organic nutrients, as the natural process of life and death occurs, or algae build ups etc.. Bleach keeps these things in check at the .5 additive dosage(some say daily. i beg to differ once you are dialed in, I say weekly). Your root hairs dying often float out into the rez or water lines and are considered organic matter that will spoil a rez left unchecked(hence why many opt to clean out a rez every 7-14 days.)
-Now the claims of funky smells..... using bleach as I spoke about at a dosage of .5 ml per gal as a bench mark to keep a rez sterile. For situations of odor no matter what you do it involves a treatment level of 2ml per gal (plants can tolerate much more then that) and an entire system flush with that dosage for a 30 min interval is usually required to kill off the bacteria associated with the smell thats being produced(dirty socks). once treated fully you will notice no smell ever again.(as long as you keep bleach handy) and when you get to a more comfortable level with this knowledge you will be able to run 8 week cycles without a rez cleaning.


-My first encounter with rez smell!!!!! and tasted in buds.....

When I purchased my first hydro system (from craigslist) in used condition I assumed a good cleaning was in order..... using bleach to scrub and fill no matter what I did i could not get the smell out of this rez..... I couldnt stop the algae building up and had to keep an eye on things.......I learned about a post from a master called Phatman987976756794 blabla say what you will. bleach instead of H202(https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/327967-bleach-instead-h2o2.html) I studied post within sub post and read numerous commercial growers sites stating the chlorine dosages seemed to be industry standard on much much much more sensitive plants than weed. I treated my entire harvest a (potential 45 day setback if things just died) 2 days after pondering all the info I aquired... I treated with an even higher doasge of 3ml per gal(2.5 was advised) to make sure I did the job. 3 -5 days later the smell came back to a point but not fully.....I re-applied at a rate of 2.5 ml this time and let the cycles run....... a final rez change and the rez never had a smell again......

so as advised by greenhouse growers who encounter problems need to use a treatment dosage to sterilize an entire line this may be in order for some people...... but again its all about your comfort levels as a grower.....

My roots are always hairy white and clean unlike grows prior no matter what system I used I always saw some funk in the roots
 

WhitePowder

Active Member
Sorry if It gets long I will try to keep it short also I am no english major so please excuse the poorly structured wall of text. (also Im a lil baked)

-Organics have no place in hydro(opinion alert).....Bleach as a general additive is used in a .5 ml per gal (6-8 drops). At this ratio is use is limited to having an oxidizing and sterilizing effect, while helping maintain longer life a nutrient solution and fighting off pathogens.
-Things can get funky in a rez that is using organic nutrients, as the natural process of life and death occurs, or algae build ups etc.. Bleach keeps these things in check at the .5 additive dosage(some say daily. i beg to differ once you are dialed in, I say weekly). Your root hairs dying often float out into the rez or water lines and are considered organic matter that will spoil a rez left unchecked(hence why many opt to clean out a rez every 7-14 days.)
-Now the claims of funky smells..... using bleach as I spoke about at a dosage of .5 ml per gal as a bench mark to keep a rez sterile. For situations of odor no matter what you do it involves a treatment level of 2ml per gal (plants can tolerate much more then that) and an entire system flush with that dosage for a 30 min interval is usually required to kill off the bacteria associated with the smell thats being produced(dirty socks). once treated fully you will notice no smell ever again.(as long as you keep bleach handy) and when you get to a more comfortable level with this knowledge you will be able to run 8 week cycles without a rez cleaning.


-My first encounter with rez smell!!!!! and tasted in buds.....

When I purchased my first hydro system (from craigslist) in used condition I assumed a good cleaning was in order..... using bleach to scrub and fill no matter what I did i could not get the smell out of this rez..... I couldnt stop the algae building up and had to keep an eye on things.......I learned about a post from a master called Phatman987976756794 blabla say what you will. bleach instead of H202(https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/327967-bleach-instead-h2o2.html) I studied post within sub post and read numerous commercial growers sites stating the chlorine dosages seemed to be industry standard on much much much more sensitive plants than weed. I treated my entire harvest a (potential 45 day setback if things just died) 2 days after pondering all the info I aquired... I treated with an even higher doasge of 3ml per gal(2.5 was advised) to make sure I did the job. 3 -5 days later the smell came back to a point but not fully.....I re-applied at a rate of 2.5 ml this time and let the cycles run....... a final rez change and the rez never had a smell again......

so as advised by greenhouse growers who encounter problems need to use a treatment dosage to sterilize an entire line this may be in order for some people...... but again its all about your comfort levels as a grower.....

My roots are always hairy white and clean unlike grows prior no matter what system I used I always saw some funk in the roots


I am running a DWC system with 2 air stones & Botanicare nutes.
I am about 4 weeks into vegging with 1 week of FIMMING recovery.
So far my roots are white & happy. I haven't even changed the rez yet (tomorrow I plan too)

My question is, If I am not having any issues with discolored roots & just a slight smell (like worn socks) Should I still start on a bleach regiment?

Any info would be great!

photo(3).jpgphoto.jpg
 

mrecio87

Active Member
I havent tried bennies yet but once I settled on .4 ml bleach per gallon every 2-3 days it has been smooth sailing. All I can really say though is stay away from H202, had such a bad experience with that stuff causing white slime in my rez every third day like clock work. It just doesn't stay in your rez long enough to be effective. Also dont have any experience with DWC which seems like a different animal when it comes to rez maintenance.

Try one or the other just not both at the same time.
 

GreenThumbSucker

Well-Known Member
7drops per gal uncented bleach
Chlorine is used by commercial hydroponic greenhouses to keep their solution sterile. Do NOT use synthetic bleach. Regular chlorox bleach contains about 7.5% sodium hypochlorite, which is a form of chlorine.

You can use one teaspoon straight bleach per 50 gallons of solution added directly to the reservoir every other day, this comes to about 1 ML bleach per 10 gallons.

Another way to do it is to add 100 ML of bleach to one gallon of RO water or distilled water. The first time you use it, use 3/4 of a cup per 50 gallons, then every other day use a half cup per 50 gallons. Bleach has a residual effect that lasts a couple days, so every other day is fine.

If you are in a situation where you already have root rot then bleach is the way to go to get rid of it. The chlorine in Clorox will oxidize the dead roots and have them sluff off and detach from the good root mass. Otherwise they will putrefy and become slimy and screw up your remaining roots.

Of course, in my DWC, LOTS of aeration is the key to keeping this monster away. Pythium bacteria thrive in wet, warm, oxygenless environments.
 

boombats

Member
beneficial bacteria (aka bene) inside hydro systems are notorious for causing MAJOR issues...... while many can say " i have been running bene's in my rez for years with no problems" one will only have to encounter the problems associated with organics decomposing in hydro systems to spend the time researching the frequent problems. So once anyone I have ever talked to has switched to sterile rez over organic hydro........would never go back...


bleach eliminates the potential for things going wrong... and why wait for things to go wrong? (personal experience: could be my experience has made things go smooth but I would like to also thank bleach.....I NEVER have problems in hydro....... where i used to often considering I dont run a water chiller(expensive and a luxuary) bleach will be your friend
bleach is also one of the 16 essential compounds listed on MANY greenhouse commercial growers websites....
it has some profound effects in stabilizing solutions (in my personal experience I have never discussed with others if this is correct) algae growth and other pathogens have a impact on the PH in solution.........preventing them from ever exsisting has kept me doing minimal work over the last year to check my rez PH once I stabilize it...... I almost never add a ph up/down
 

superstoner1

Well-Known Member
you guys keep saying beneficials only go with organics, that is wrong. they work. temps are the biggest cause of slime and rot, bennies keep the plant healthy.
 
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