Obama announces new education program focused on African Americans...executive order

[UncleBuck]

This was for your friend, ChesusRice, but it fits you, too.............Misstating the situation and asking us to prove your misstatement wrong is a dishonest tactic. Defending racial discrimination is just wrong. You shame yourself.

you never answered my first question and you dodged this one by not telling me how the situation was misstated.

premise your assertion or go back to stormfront.

 

[cannabineer]

so, the socioeconomic imbalance faced by one community, brought on by centuries of persecution, has never landed on the shoulders of an individual?

Obviously it has, but not in a systematic way.
The real question is how to equitably address the issue.
Imo any corrective measure that focuses on composites and not individuals causes at least as many problems as it addresses.
Consider Affirmative Action, a program that expressly battles the racist legacy by granting minorities a codified advantage. The program is predicated on raw demographics, because anything more complex would be impossible to administer. But it strikes me as fundamentally unfair if left to continue indefinitely. At some point, the issue that Affirmative Action sought to correct will have gone away through the ordinary operation of individuals (regardless of race, creed, sex) struggling to tear off their own personal piece of the American Dream, or what's left of it. What provision is there in the program to end it then?

It's a difficult question, and I don't want to step on any part of my anatomy simply because I am trying to develop something fair from first principles, paramount among which is equal opportunity for every adult American. (Adult because i am thinking job/career. Schooling is best treated separately.) And it is difficult to discuss hard topics without convincing someone that I have a racist streak. But I don't want to propagate cowardice either by not taking the topic on.
At some point, we all as individuals within society need to grow up, stop the handwringing about the generation of our grandparents, and look forward to seeking our own fortunes. Institutional racism hinders this, and so, I fear, does institutional hyperawareness of race sustained by a simplistic quota system. There's gotta be a way to battle both without hiding a return to status quo ante under the guise of egalitarianism, becsause I do not doubt that some have that agenda ... but not I. cn

 

[UncleBuck]

Obviously it has, but not in a systematic way.
The real question is how to equitably address the issue.
Imo any corrective measure that focuses on composites and not individuals causes at least as many problems as it addresses.
Consider Affirmative Action, a program that expressly battles the racist legacy by granting minorities a codified advantage. The program is predicated on raw demographics, because anything more complex would be impossible to administer. But it strikes me as fundamentally unfair if left to continue indefinitely. At some point, the issue that Affirmative Action sought to correct will have gone away through the ordinary operation of individuals (regardless of race, creed, sex) struggling to tear off their own personal piece of the American Dream, or what's left of it. What provision is there in the program to end it then?

It's a difficult question, and I don't want to step on any part of my anatomy simply because I am trying to develop something fair from first principles, paramount among which is equal opportunity for every adult American. (Adult because i am thinking job/career. Schooling is best treated separately.) And it is difficult to discuss hard topics without convincing someone that I have a racist streak. But I don't want to propagate cowardice either by not taking the topic on.
At some point, we all as individuals within society need to grow up, stop the handwringing about the generation of our grandparents, and look forward to seeking our own fortunes. Institutional racism hinders this, and so, I fear, does institutional hyperawareness of race sustained by a simplistic quota system. There's gotta be a way to battle both without hiding a return to status quo ante under the guise of egalitarianism, becsause I do not doubt that some have that agenda ... but not I. cn

i don't think anyone could see what you write as having any sort of racist streak, but i do see some misunderstanding with respect to AA. quotas are illegal, although they happen.as i see it, AA need not be ended as it does not favor one race over another, it expressly prevents that from happening to any one group or the other.

 

[cannabineer]

i don't think anyone could see what you write as having any sort of racist streak, but i do see some misunderstanding with respect to AA. quotas are illegal, although they happen.as i see it, AA need not be ended as it does not favor one race over another, it expressly prevents that from happening to any one group or the other.

I have personally witnessed qualified majority job/promotion candidates in my field get passed over because there was a quota to fill. AA runs into problems when the ratios are pushed on smaller and smaller groups, like companies or faculties. I would like to see it opened somehow to do away with the insensitivity to qualification, especially in small and esoteric fields/enterprises. But i do not know how to make that happen, because any opening stratagem i can imagine can be subverted by prejudiced people in positions of power. It's not a simple situation, and shoehorning complex problems into a simplistic template is fighting one unfairness with another. I would prefer more of a culture of individual responsibility and reward... but do not wish to hitch my wagon to utopians like the Karl Marx or the Ayn Rand crowds. cn

 

[UncleBuck]

AA runs into problems when the ratios are pushed on smaller and smaller groups

that quirk of statistics is the main problem i can see with AA. a company hiring 450 entry level widget makers is no problem, but a company hiring 3 highly qualified widget specialists might get a bit sticky.

edit: doesn't mean i would throw the baby out with the bathwater, and i am with you on being at a loss for a solution.

 

[Winter Woman]

I don't recall that. Link? cn

I remember he really pissed me off once and I did vent my spleen. Did I call his kid a retard? Maybe, I don't remember. What I do remember is you saying I had gone too far and I agreed that I had.

So in a effort for harmonies sake. Winter officially apologizes for calling his kid a retard if I did so. Happy now sparky?

 

[ChesusRice]

I remember he really pissed me off once and I did vent my spleen. Did I call his kid a retard? Maybe, I don't remember. What I do remember is you saying I had gone too far and I agreed that I had.

So in a effort for harmonies sake. Winter officially apologizes for calling his kid a retard if I did so. Happy now sparky?

And I accept your apology and will never Again insult you I am sorry
I shall take a time out from posting

 

[Harrekin]

And I accept your apology and will never Again insult you I am sorry
I shall take a time out from posting

Just be Chesus, not Duke and you'll be fine

 

[Rob Roy]

Is a parent to be blamed for a childs behaviour in school or are teachers in no way personally responsible for the education of their students?

Id like to see bad teachers simply removed from the system, as would happen in the private sector.

This could easily be accomplished by replacing the strangle hold public schools have on tax dollars. If people kept their money and chose where and with whom they would educate their children the market feedback would eliminate poor educators.

 

[Rob Roy]

how is trying to get rid of the achievement gap an example of racial discrimination?

i'll go grab some popcorn and wait for you to tell me how trying to make two races more equal is an example of racial discrimination.

Trying to "make" anybody do anything but leave others alone is at the core of the problem. Do you advocate "racial equality" in such high paying areas of employment such as professional sports too? Do you favor balancing the NHL, the NBA, MLB based on racial criteria?

 

[Red1966]

you never answered my first question and you dodged this one by not telling me how the situation was misstated. premise your assertion or go back to stormfront.

Since you keep slandering me, you're back on ignore. Troll

 

[ginwilly]

Since you keep slandering me, you're back on ignore. Troll

You'll miss pictures of absolutely beautiful plants and some awesomely funny memes. I wouldn't do it.

I still picture UB as not taking what he says seriously, just having fun. Until he gets mean, not a fan of the mean stuff, but a fan of the wit (unless it's mean).

 

[Wordz]

Trying to "make" anybody do anything but leave others alone is at the core of the problem. Do you advocate "racial equality" in such high paying areas of employment such as professional sports too? Do you favor balancing the NHL, the NBA, MLB based on racial criteria?

do you favor paying the players the same as the owners?

 

[Wordz]

When doesn't he get mean? His "wit" is lame. The pussy fails in real life, so he comes here to pretend to be a success. Watch how quick he is to claim victory when there is none. I'd feel sorry for him if he wasn't such an ass.

if you're gonna say he fails irl you should at least say how your better than him.

 

[UncleBuck]

Since you keep slandering me, you're back on ignore. Troll

awww, poor baby doesn't even want to defend his own statement by simply premising his assertion. poor little thing.

 

[UncleBuck]

what is your profession?

he works with nobel prize winners for the government, he claims.

 

[Wordz]

he works with nobel prize winners for the government, he claims.

that's funny i make nobel prizes.

 

[UncleBuck]

that's funny i make nobel prizes.

i just made a few nobel prizes, wiped, and flushed.

 

[Red1966]

if you're gonna say he fails irl you should at least say how your better than him.

I don't shit in my pants for one thing.

 

[Wordz]

I don't shit in my pants for one thing.

haha aim high