How come no outrage over private prisons?

[beenthere]

if over 50% of the US population were in prison everyone's family would be involved.

we have a higher percentage of inmates than most nations because we have become the fashionable place to commit crime. why commit crimes in kuala lompur or guatemala when you can have a better lefe and commit more profitable crimes in the US, and when you do get caught your prison term will be short, in a cushy hilton instead of a dog-eat-dog hellpit in venzuela.

we could easily get down to mexico's incarceration numbers if our cops and legal system accepts as many bribes, and were as incompetent as mexico's, or if we took the same lassiez faire attitude towards criminal cartels running 1/3 of our country like medieval kings.

you might believe you would enjoy living out your anarcho-fantasies in such a lawless wasteland, but the reality would change your mind rapidly. if you survived.

Hes talking about the percentage of prison population that are black. I find it awesome that you advocate for drug related imprisonment when you are on a pot forum, hypocrite.

Where do you see anything hypocritical, am I missing something?

 

[lifegoesonbrah]

there was no "black" information at all, simply the blanket sweeping statement that over 50% of the us population is in prison. there was no discussion of their blackness,, and furthermore in no way are 50% of blacks in the us behind bars. even the most ludicrously and carefully parsed phrases put the numbers at "33% of african-american males between the ages of 16 and 45 have some contact with the criminal justice system" ~ some jackhole on cnn bitching about racial profiling
i do NOT support drug imprisonment or federal drug crimes at all. the cartels dont give a shit about drugs either. if they could make their money on diamonds, they would, if they could make their money off tobacco or selling soap they would. they are a criminal enterprise with a focus on coke speed and weed, but they would just as easily run their empire on whores guns diamonds and religion as any drug.

that you seem to not understand this concept makes me wonder if you arent a little too high to interweb today.

I'm sorry, 50% of drug related offenses are blacks, which is disproportionate. Frankly you are ruining this awesome thread. We have here an Obama supporter who created a thread against private prisons, then we found out on opensecrets that Obama appointed a private prison lobbyist which is awesome.

 

[lifegoesonbrah]

Where do you see anything hypocritical, am I missing something?

Because he is justifying the drug laws as not the problem, but he clarified, so disregard.

 

[ChesusRice]

I'm sorry, 50% of drug related offenses are blacks, which is disproportionate. Frankly you are ruining this awesome thread. We have here an Obama supporter who created a thread against private prisons, then we found out on opensecrets that Obama appointed a private prison lobbyist which is awesome.

OBAMA CAMPAIGN'S REVOLVING DOOR ADDITION: K Street and Capitol Hill veteran Broderick Johnson is joining the re-election campaign of President Barack Obama as a senior adviser

During his time in the private sector in Washington, Johnson has also worked for Wiley, Rein & Fielding, the Oliver Group, Bryan Cave Strategies, Bryan Cave LLP and the Collins-Johnson Group, according to research by the Center for Responsive Politics.


In addition to AT&T, Johnson's clients over the years have included numerous political heavy weights, federal lobbying records show, such as Anheuser-Busch, Bank of America, the Biotechnology Industry Organization, Comcast, Fannie Mae, FedEx, Ford, JPMorgan Chase, Microsoft, Shell Oil, Time Warner and Verizon.

Federal records indicate that he has also lobbied on behalf of the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the GEO Group (the private prison industry giant) and TransCanada Corp. -- although TransCanada spokesman Terry Cunha told Politico Monday that the company's "government relations operation did not look to and receive lobbying support from Broderick Johnson," despite what lobbying records show, as the energy company has sought Obama administration approval for its controversial Keystone XL pipeline project.


I think Deprave left some things out
and i think
You dont know who this guy is

 

[Dr Kynes]

I'm sorry, 50% of drug related offenses are blacks, which is disproportionate. Frankly you are ruining this awesome thread. We have here an Obama supporter who created a thread against private prisons, then we found out on opensecrets that Obama appointed a private prison lobbyist which is awesome.

see now that i buy, statistically blacks are far more likely to use drugs in a location that places them in proximity to law enforcement officers.

i dont know why but it is true, i have seen it too often to dismiss the phenomenon as mere statistical abnormality. here is a sample:

Tiberius: Gentlemen! I am in possession of a large quantity of cannabis, and propose we make the acquaintance of several ladies and consume this cannabis within the confines of a motel room.

Reginald: Huzzah!! I second this motion, and further propose that we include this bottle of moderately priced whiskey to the evening's festivities!

Malcolm: Capital idea! I am in possession of several capsules of Percocet, and these may bring a more full bodied flavour to this repast!

Archibald: Brilliant proposals one and all! I shall place a telephone call to a lady of my acquaintance who has several suitably attractive and willing friends of the female persuasion.

Tyrone: I propose we save the currency we might spend procuring a motel room and instead hold our festivities under a bridge in the manner of the common crackhead, then use the savings to procure additional liquors, and perhaps some prophylactics!

Crickets: chirp chirp.

 

[newatit2010]

There are not prisons in this country just fucking play lands. Bring back hangings and work details. Fuck a bunch laying around watching cable tv and working out.

 

[Rob Roy]

if over 50% of the US population were in prison everyone's family would be involved.

we have a higher percentage of inmates than most nations because we have become the fashionable place to commit crime. why commit crimes in kuala lompur or guatemala when you can have a better lefe and commit more profitable crimes in the US, and when you do get caught your prison term will be short, in a cushy hilton instead of a dog-eat-dog hellpit in venzuela.

we could easily get down to mexico's incarceration numbers if our cops and legal system accepts as many bribes, and were as incompetent as mexico's, or if we took the same lassiez faire attitude towards criminal cartels running 1/3 of our country like medieval kings.

you might believe you would enjoy living out your anarcho-fantasies in such a lawless wasteland, but the reality would change your mind rapidly. if you survived.

I'm thinking the amount of laws, lawyers and parasitic government types that the United States has contributes to the number of people incarcerated....not to mention the number of people that get prosecuted for victimless crimes, like oh I don't know....weed maybe...

 

[Rob Roy]

see now that i buy, statistically blacks are far more likely to use drugs in a location that places them in proximity to law enforcement officers.

i dont know why but it is true, i have seen it too often to dismiss the phenomenon as mere statistical abnormality. here is a sample:

Tiberius: Gentlemen! I am in possession of a large quantity of cannabis, and propose we make the acquaintance of several ladies and consume this cannabis within the confines of a motel room.

Reginald: Huzzah!! I second this motion, and further propose that we include this bottle of moderately priced whiskey to the evening's festivities!

Malcolm: Capital idea! I am in possession of several capsules of Percocet, and these may bring a more full bodied flavour to this repast!

Archibald: Brilliant proposals one and all! I shall place a telephone call to a lady of my acquaintance who has several suitably attractive and willing friends of the female persuasion.

Tyrone: I propose we save the currency we might spend procuring a motel room and instead hold our festivities under a bridge in the manner of the common crackhead, then use the savings to procure additional liquors, and perhaps some prophylactics!

Crickets: chirp chirp.

You might also mention blacks are far more likely to get arrested and prosecuted for no other reason than racial discrimination.

 

[kelly4]

We have the highest prison population in the world by percentage of the population, over 50% are incarcerated. I seriously doubt over half of americans belong in prison.

Are you trying to tell me that over 50% of Americans are incarcerated in a prison???

I call bullshit!

 

[Rob Roy]

Are you trying to tell me that over 50% of Americans are incarcerated in a prison???

I call bullshit!

Figureatively speaking all Americans are in "prison" . Don't believe me ? Act like YOU own your body, see what happens.

 

[bedspirit]

This is a great thread. I have a special hatred for private prisons. I'm against privatization of public services in general, but even if I believed that privatization always resulted in better services at lower prices, I would still be against private prisons. At least with a public utility, there's an outside chance that a private corporation could improve the product. When your product is misery, how much improvement do we really need? I know that part of their service is public safety, but I don't see a lot of room for improvement in that area. Just a reminder, lobbying for harsher penalties and more laws isn't the only way the private prison to increase the amount of misery they can inflict. The most infamous case of corruption involving private prisons involved the bribing of judges to lock up juveniles for petty offenses: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal

 

[deprave]

so I made the 50% up, good call, the 50% is indeed from something


big fuckign whoop really. Point being a large perentage of Americans are incarcarated for non-violent crimes for the sake of the fat cats lining their pockets. Obama is associated with this as well as past presidents and much of congress have been nothing but supportive, ofcourse thats how they get votes to stay in power. I am not going to argue semantics, the facts are right there infront of you, I have layed out numerous facts in this thread that show this corruption is obvious and not one person has presented a valid counter-argument.

 

[missnu]

what do you do with people that break laws then? I mean is there another plan for what to do with people that ARE a danger to society...
I don't think any victimless crime should be jail worthy, but what about the criminals that create victims...do we leave them to roam free and hope it doesn't happen?
Ideally I think there would be a death penalty if you were without a doubt guilty of a heinous crime...You shouldn't sit on Death Row for 6 years...
Like let's say charlie slit the throat of his mother, brother, and sister...and confessed...so he gets the death penalty...why does charlie then get locked up til he dies of natural causes?
He confessed to doing it, you know he did it...there is irrefutable evidence...In this kind of scenario I think as soon as the sentence is spoken and court is over that they take the guy out back and just shoot them...I mean I just don't see the purpose in keeping someone alive that you plan to kill...just kill them and move on...
I think only violent offenders deserve, or should be in jail...
Prison is a serious place, so whenever someone gets sent to prison over some petty crap they end up learning how to be a larger scarier more menacing criminal just from having gone to prison...

The whole system is bunk, but what would we have to do to make a system that works...
there isn't one...But we all know that what we do now doesn't work...
Not to mention there are a lot of people that can get and do things in jail they never had outside...so some people prefer those 4 walls to whatever they left on the outside.

 

[bedspirit]

so I made the 50% up, good call, the 50% is indeed from something


big fuckign whoop really. Point being a large perentage of Americans are incarcarated for non-violent crimes for the sake of the fat cats lining their pockets. Obama is associated with this as well as past presidents and much of congress have been nothing but supportive, ofcourse thats how they get votes to stay in power. I am not going to argue semantics, the facts are right there infront of you, I have layed out numerous facts in this thread that show this corruption is obvious and not one person has presented a valid counter-argument.

I agree with you on the corruption of the private prison industry and you've presented enough evidence to convince me that Obama may approve of the arrangement, but I propose that most of the corruption takes place on the state level.

It hasn't been news in some time, but 4 or 5 years ago, there were all kinds of stories about how easy it was for illegal immigrants to get into the country. Do you suppose that it's intentional? Make it easy for them to get in, so the federal prisons can lock them up once we bust them here? If it were more difficult to get in, there'd be less of them to lock up, which would equal less federal dollars for the federal prisons.

 

[bedspirit]

what do you do with people that break laws then? I mean is there another plan for what to do with people that ARE a danger to society...
I don't think any victimless crime should be jail worthy, but what about the criminals that create victims...do we leave them to roam free and hope it doesn't happen?
Ideally I think there would be a death penalty if you were without a doubt guilty of a heinous crime...You shouldn't sit on Death Row for 6 years...
Like let's say charlie slit the throat of his mother, brother, and sister...and confessed...so he gets the death penalty...why does charlie then get locked up til he dies of natural causes?
He confessed to doing it, you know he did it...there is irrefutable evidence...In this kind of scenario I think as soon as the sentence is spoken and court is over that they take the guy out back and just shoot them...I mean I just don't see the purpose in keeping someone alive that you plan to kill...just kill them and move on...
I think only violent offenders deserve, or should be in jail...
Prison is a serious place, so whenever someone gets sent to prison over some petty crap they end up learning how to be a larger scarier more menacing criminal just from having gone to prison...

The whole system is bunk, but what would we have to do to make a system that works...
there isn't one...But we all know that what we do now doesn't work...
Not to mention there are a lot of people that can get and do things in jail they never had outside...so some people prefer those 4 walls to whatever they left on the outside.

I think everyone believes we should have prisons, the issue is whether they should be run by the state as they were in the past or if they should be for profit businesses which has come into fashion over the last decade or so. Once profit entered into the equation, we've seen that industry lobby for harsher sentences, more laws, and even bribe judges just to lock more people up and collect more tax dollars to do it.

 

[deprave]

what do you do with people that break laws then? I mean is there another plan for what to do with people that ARE a danger to society...
I don't think any victimless crime should be jail worthy, but what about the criminals that create victims...do we leave them to roam free and hope it doesn't happen?
Ideally I think there would be a death penalty if you were without a doubt guilty of a heinous crime...You shouldn't sit on Death Row for 6 years...
Like let's say charlie slit the throat of his mother, brother, and sister...and confessed...so he gets the death penalty...why does charlie then get locked up til he dies of natural causes?
He confessed to doing it, you know he did it...there is irrefutable evidence...In this kind of scenario I think as soon as the sentence is spoken and court is over that they take the guy out back and just shoot them...I mean I just don't see the purpose in keeping someone alive that you plan to kill...just kill them and move on...
I think only violent offenders deserve, or should be in jail...
Prison is a serious place, so whenever someone gets sent to prison over some petty crap they end up learning how to be a larger scarier more menacing criminal just from having gone to prison...

The whole system is bunk, but what would we have to do to make a system that works...
there isn't one...But we all know that what we do now doesn't work...
Not to mention there are a lot of people that can get and do things in jail they never had outside...so some people prefer those 4 walls to whatever they left on the outside.

Well, A system not from the quakers in the 1600's or whatever would be a good start, the quakers believe solitary confinement was good treatment for some god awfull reason, to this day the quakers prison system is still practiced. So I mean improvements can be made to more effectively treat and "punish" criminals, In a society with a state then I believe this is an essential function of the state, If there was no state then I am actually for privatization of everything, that utopian scenario would never play out anyhow as there is no forseeable viable path to that, but I digress because this is not the discussion here, the heart of the issue here YET AGAIN, is money in politics and with Privatized Prisons getting "no compete" contracts creates something that serves with no interest in preserving human interests whatsoever, this is the worst of the worst, we have a government colluding with corporate interests that could care less about human life because it is not in their interest whatsoever, This goes against everything from all sides of any issue really, human rights, free markets, democracy, this goes against everything except one thing: Facism. Our form of privatized prisons are clearly fascist. No matter what side of the coin your on here really, this is counter to your philosophy in some way , democrat/republican/libertarian whatever.

Philosophy in general and those moral rules also say that slavery is wrong, so Philosophically this is just plain wrong anyway you shake it.

 

[missnu]

I think everyone believes we should have prisons, the issue is whether they should be run by the state as they were in the past or if they should be for profit businesses which has come into fashion over the last decade or so. Once profit entered into the equation, we've seen that industry lobby for harsher sentences, more laws, and even bribe judges just to lock more people up and collect more tax dollars to do it.

What I am getting at is how would the system be fixed though...
We had too many people locked up to afford to take care of them all without the people outside the prisons getting pissed at having to take care of all the prisoners better than the people at home might be getting taken care of...
So they privatized said prisons, so now the tax payers pay less, but they put more people in prison so the companies running the prisons can make more money, but I don't see how it is really any worse than what was happening before...

Oh My God! I just figured out the answer...
Walmart
Walmart is the answer...
Walmart has low prices because they get their stuff made in countries that allow lower wages and production costs, yes?...
What if walmart started setting up factories in US prisons and paying the prisoners a ridiculously low wage, then walmart has to spend so much money they make from the merchandise sold that they spend some back to upkeep the prison..
Ummm we have a prison near where we live that makes pantyhose in a factory inside of the prison...the prisoners work there for some couple of dollars a day, not a normal wage, and then this plant sells the pantyhose and then uses the money to help the prison and to keep the company going...
That is good thinking in a way. the prisoners have something to do. they have a job they have to go to, and a way they have to act while at that job...they are less likely to get up to shennanigans because they have something to do with their time besides stabbing people and starting fights.
You have to have good behavior to work in the factory, and a little money is better than no money in jail...Not to mention it gives you a chance to mingle with people in a more relaxed and normal setting...
I should write a letter.

 

[bedspirit]

What I am getting at is how would the system be fixed though...
We had too many people locked up to afford to take care of them all without the people outside the prisons getting pissed at having to take care of all the prisoners better than the people at home might be getting taken care of...
So they privatized said prisons, so now the tax payers pay less, but they put more people in prison so the companies running the prisons can make more money, but I don't see how it is really any worse than what was happening before...

Oh My God! I just figured out the answer...
Walmart
Walmart is the answer...
Walmart has low prices because they get their stuff made in countries that allow lower wages and production costs, yes?...
What if walmart started setting up factories in US prisons and paying the prisoners a ridiculously low wage, then walmart has to spend so much money they make from the merchandise sold that they spend some back to upkeep the prison..
Ummm we have a prison near where we live that makes pantyhose in a factory inside of the prison...the prisoners work there for some couple of dollars a day, not a normal wage, and then this plant sells the pantyhose and then uses the money to help the prison and to keep the company going...
That is good thinking in a way. the prisoners have something to do. they have a job they have to go to, and a way they have to act while at that job...they are less likely to get up to shennanigans because they have something to do with their time besides stabbing people and starting fights.
You have to have good behavior to work in the factory, and a little money is better than no money in jail...Not to mention it gives you a chance to mingle with people in a more relaxed and normal setting...
I should write a letter.

Didn't similar scenario play out in the Shawshank Redemption? Didn't the prison out bid private contractors to do road maintenance or some shit? The tricky thing would be getting the American public to accept the fact that we're hiring prisoners to work when unemployment is so high. Also illegal immigrants would be pissed if the prisoners were stealing the jobs that they stole fair and square. Of course, they could just get locked up intentionally so they could get a job too. Sounds like a win/win. They want to get locked up and prisons want to lock them up.

Seriously though, I think private prisons end up costing more in the long run. They may cost less per prisoner than a publicly owned state prison, but I suspect that their influence is what led to more prisoners. It wouldn't surprise me if the incarceration rate and the expansion of private prisons correlate.

I'm in favor of the decriminalization drugs. That, even more so than illegal immigrants, seems to be the bread and butter of the private prison industry and I suspect that their lobbying is one of the major roadblocks to drug reform

 

[InCognition]

Ron Paul is a racist
Deal with it

Funny.... says the guy who is a racist himself.

By the way, accepting money from a racist, does not make the recipient of that money, a racist. Nor does it mean the recipient endorses racism.

Good thing I cleared that up for you, right? I know. Now finish up high school so that you can make some more intelligent assumptions.

 

[Dr Kynes]

You might also mention blacks are far more likely to get arrested and prosecuted for no other reason than racial discrimination.

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_03.html

nearly 50% of murders committed by a group that makes up 11% of the population. mind you this is not convictions, this is crimes where the perp's description can be ascertained, note the 4000+ crimes where the perp's race gender and age are "unknown".

this pattern continues through every type of crime up to "white collar" crimes.

the pattern is so damaging to racial apologists that in the 90's the FBI and DOJ combined white and hispanic together

women are incarcerated at a much lower rate than men, yet men make up only 50% of the population at large. one could make the same flawed argument that men are being "sexually profiled" and receive gender biased trials.

it would still be bullshit.