Why not to vote

[Corso312]

Cut our defense budget by 45-50 % ...Remove 95% of our troops/vehicles and equipment from overseas...close down 900 or so bases overseas....those trillions we save..we pay the chinese what we owe them...the american dollar becomes stronger overnight.... Now that we are square with China..we tell them there is now a big fat tariff on all the cheap chinese junk they send here. With the higher price on imports ..it forces more domestic production..creating more jobs..we are sitting on an insane amount of natural gas..we convert our vehicles to nat gas..we lower the demand for oil and take away all the wealth and power of the people who hate us the most...we start growing industrial hemp and stop clear cutting our forests and stop exporting lumber to China..hemp could save millions of trees and create more jobs..we legalize marijuana and tax it...more jobs and again save more money .... We go to a standard flat tax for those who make under 100k =10% .. 100-200k =15%.. 200-999,999 =20%...1 million and up is taxed at 35% ...no more i.r.s ..no more tax code loopholes or writing off strippers and yachts and private jets and aviation fuel and all the other bullshit these rich fucks do now..Lower the fed gov control and let states decide what works best...more transparency in government and lobbyists underhanded dealings...that is just a start.

 

[Corso312]

For the record..Bush was the worst president to date..Reagen second worst.Bush should be hung for treason and war crimes.

 

[althor]

I cannot and will not defend Obama on his record regarding executive privelege, secrecy and the civil rights infractions surrounding our war on terror. I am curious as to why those who so loudly cry about those abuses were so silent when Bush perpetrated them. Your quote says that Bush started these abuses and then goes on to claim that getting the genie back in the bottle is impossible. If that is so, then let us blame the one who opened the bottle.

Now, consider that Romney is even more willing to defer to the wants of the military and has said nothing against Obama's actions. His silence is indication that he will at least perpetuate Obama's and Bush's policies if not enhance them to our disadvantage as citizens.

So you are saying even though Obama has proven he will do it, we shouldnt take a chance that Romney might do it?

 

[Corso312]

An interesting opinion, Corso, but i see a defect in it: the concept of "earning" a vote. The game isn't about that any more ... just being perceived as the lesser of two evils ... and that isn't about earning votes but dissuading votes for the other guy. That poster didn't mention how he imagines the other candidate would influence those issues or be a better/worse choice. cn

Imo..they all suck...they are all controlled by very wealthy and greedy people who are morally bankrupt.

 

[ginwilly]

I cannot and will not defend Obama on his record regarding executive privelege, secrecy and the civil rights infractions surrounding our war on terror. I am curious as to why those who so loudly cry about those abuses were so silent when Bush perpetrated them. Your quote says that Bush started these abuses and then goes on to claim that getting the genie back in the bottle is impossible. If that is so, then let us blame the one who opened the bottle.

Now, consider that Romney is even more willing to defer to the wants of the military and has said nothing against Obama's actions. His silence is indication that he will at least perpetuate Obama's and Bush's policies if not enhance them to our disadvantage as citizens.

Rand Paul is on the right. He introduced legislation that would require a warrant before drones can spy on us. The left won't vote on it.

76% of our budget under JFK went to military spending as well as HUGE tax cuts that spurred the economy. On top of that, NASA was the shit, we are going to miss em. The left is floundering today, what happened?

 

[althor]

Imo..they all suck...they are all controlled by very wealthy and greedy people who are morally bankrupt.

The good guys dont even make it into the local level of politics. They get their throats cut in the city councils of the country and never rise again.

 

[canndo]

Cut our defense budget by 45-50 % ...Remove 95% of our troops/vehicles and equipment from overseas...close down 900 or so bases overseas....those trillions we save..we pay the chinese what we owe them...the american dollar becomes stronger overnight.... Now that we are square with China..we tell them there is now a big fat tariff on all the cheap chinese junk they send here. With the higher price on imports ..it forces more domestic production..creating more jobs..we are sitting on an insane amount of natural gas..we convert our vehicles to nat gas..we lower the demand for oil and take away all the wealth and power of the people who hate us the most...we start growing industrial hemp and stop clear cutting our forests and stop exporting lumber to China..hemp could save millions of trees and create more jobs..we legalize marijuana and tax it...more jobs and again save more money .... We go to a standard flat tax for those who make under 100k =10% .. 100-200k =15%.. 200-999,999 =20%...1 million and up is taxed at 35% ...no more i.r.s ..no more tax code loopholes or writing off strippers and yachts and private jets and aviation fuel and all the other bullshit these rich fucks do now..Lower the fed gov control and let states decide what works best...more transparency in government and lobbyists underhanded dealings...that is just a start.

Sounds like fun, perhaps we can play with this. You are saying cut defense across the board by 40 percent? Ok, does that include veterans support? how about R&D? how will you deal with the lack of money going toward communities with bases? How will you absorb the 1.1 million people put out of work in the military alone? We spent about 900 billion for defense last year, so we get 450 billion a year out of that but you are going to have to keep about 130 billion in vet affairs, are you going to cut all foreign military enhancements? that's about 50 bilion in economic aid and the like. so I figure you don't have 450 billion any more but more like 270 billion saved right?

What do we owe China? 2.5 trillion. So figure about 10 years?

Now who is going to do the natgas conversion and how? Is the U.S. government going to do that? I can't figure infrastructure changes but I've worked with gasesous fuels station installations and they run between a quarter million and several million each depending on the situation - lots of retular gas station changes are lots cheaper. there are about 130,000 of them.

Growing hemp? I don't know how that will alter our national debt.

Flat tax? I supposes we could figure that out but I don't have any figures in my head for it.

 

[canndo]

Rand Paul is on the right. He introduced legislation that would require a warrant before drones can spy on us. The left won't vote on it.

76% of our budget under JFK went to military spending as well as HUGE tax cuts that spurred the economy. On top of that, NASA was the shit, we are going to miss em. The left is floundering today, what happened?

"In 1963, the height of spending under the Kennedy administration, the Defense Department had a $53.5 billion budget, according to the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments in Washington. Expressed in fiscal year 2006 money, that is $392 billion, or about 9 percent of the GDP, which was about $4.1 trillion."

 

[Corso312]

Only closing 90% of the bases overseas..I don't give a fuck about their "community" Nat gas is so much cleaner and we will get is so much cheaper it is a win/win..and creates more domestic jobs...less people sucking on the government titty..more money saved...nat gas conversion done by american companies employing american people..you can convert a vehicle to nat gas for under 500$....what is this 250k-1 million you are throwing around?....growing hemp creates more jobs..saves more trees..another win/win..the amount of money that corporations will pay will be massive with a flat tax..you do understand we have been spending about 2-3 billion PER day in the mid east..what is that extrapolated over the 8 or 9 years we have been there?

 

[Corso312]

I think his point was "what is the point"? of voting..it makes little to no difference..and I agree.

 

[canndo]

Only closing 90% of the bases overseas..I don't give a fuck about their "community" Nat gas is so much cleaner and we will get is so much cheaper it is a win/win..and creates more domestic jobs...less people sucking on the government titty..more money saved...nat gas conversion done by american companies employing american people..you can convert a vehicle to nat gas for under 500$....what is this 250k-1 million you are throwing around?....growing hemp creates more jobs..saves more trees..another win/win..the amount of money that corporations will pay will be massive with a flat tax..you do understand we have been spending about 2-3 billion PER day in the mid east..what is that extrapolated over the 8 or 9 years we have been there?

So you won't close any bases in the U.S.?

the 250k is the cost of setting up a (complete) refuling facility.

 

[canndo]

I think his point was "what is the point"? of voting..it makes little to no difference..and I agree.

You could argue that voting makes no difference if you live in a solid color state, if your representation makes no difference and you don't vote on initiatives.

Otherwise, it does indeed make a difference that you vote and what you vote on. Our choices are usually, fundamentaly different and in this case, even if the outcome of the presidency is not different, as I said, SCOTUS does make a difference to your life and tilting that body in one direction or another has a direct affect on you, your neighborhood and your state.

 

[Corso312]

250 k is chump change...4.50 gallon is rape...and we get to cut venezuela and saudi arabia off....no bases closed in U.S. ...I said 3 times now OVERSEAS bases..there are about 1k of them that we know of..I am sure there are some we don't know of.We are spreading ourselves too thin and it is bankrupting us..not to mention all it does is create more anti american sentiment.

 

[KillCaustic]

Love that George Carlin video. I'm with the OP on this one, NOT VOTING! Romney, Obama, same whore different dress, IMHO.
My sister is the only one in my family who is voting this year, for Romney, just to try and keep Obama out. I tried to tell her it doesn't matter in the end. My father who votes every year and voted for Obama last year is not voting. He is done with this bullshit. I knew it was just a matter of time.

 

[ChesusRice]

250 k is chump change...4.50 gallon is rape...and we get to cut venezuela and saudi arabia off....no bases closed in U.S. ...I said 3 times now OVERSEAS bases..there are about 1k of them that we know of..I am sure there are some we don't know of.We are spreading ourselves too thin and it is bankrupting us..not to mention all it does is create more anti american sentiment.

4.50 a gallon gas

it must be becuase we are not producing enough oil

Because I remember when it cost that much when oil was 140 a barrel

make sense to you?

 

[ChesusRice]

Love that George Carlin video. I'm with the OP on this one, NOT VOTING! Romney, Obama, same whore different dress, IMHO.
My sister is the only one in my family who is voting this year, for Romney, just to try and keep Obama out. I tried to tell her it doesn't matter in the end. My father who votes every year and voted for Obama last year is not voting. He is done with this bullshit. I knew it was just a matter of time.

You were going to vote for ROn Paul though
amirite?

 

[KillCaustic]

You were going to vote for ROn Paul though
amirite?

Actually, I had no such plans.

 

[canndo]

250 k is chump change...4.50 gallon is rape...and we get to cut venezuela and saudi arabia off....no bases closed in U.S. ...I said 3 times now OVERSEAS bases..there are about 1k of them that we know of..I am sure there are some we don't know of.We are spreading ourselves too thin and it is bankrupting us..not to mention all it does is create more anti american sentiment.

Cost of conversion is somewhere in the neigborhood of 3.25 trillion dollars if my initial figure is right Corso. That isn't chump change. Cost of overseas bases is estimated at 250 billion.

 

[canndo]

Love that George Carlin video. I'm with the OP on this one, NOT VOTING! Romney, Obama, same whore different dress, IMHO.
My sister is the only one in my family who is voting this year, for Romney, just to try and keep Obama out. I tried to tell her it doesn't matter in the end. My father who votes every year and voted for Obama last year is not voting. He is done with this bullshit. I knew it was just a matter of time.

The right has a strategy that works - They obstruct, they mount candidates that suck, they get FOX to foment discontent, they claim Obama is an "other", they get everyone to think that government can't work - and in the process they get people to stay home. Congradulations KillCaustic, it's working.

 

[Corso312]

agreed^ .........and how did you come up with that figure?