Obama Caught on Tape "I believe in redistribution"

[NLXSK1]

But CLEAN mud and sticks.
Tell your statement to those who were in the midst of cancer clusters around love canal, tell that to the folks who lived in Hinkley or Midland. There is a middle ground. Business has no right by virtue of what it sells, to poison us or abuse us.

Yes, but most people would argue the pendulum has swung too far left, not that we need more regulation...

 

[NoDrama]

Yeah, I must be the luckiest guy on earth, I owned a Maverick (the Pinto's cousin) and I'm still alive.

My neighbor had a maverick for about 4 years, he sold it to some teenager, I should have him arrested for attempted murder I guess.

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

So your saying that if someone opens up a gas valve and blow up a house, it the gas companies fault because they can't offset the cost of hiring a security guard for each house? Or the plumbers fault for installing the valve which the person wouldn't be able to get gas without? I have never understood why people expect companies to babysit all their consumers.

PS: Canndo Don't eat shampoo!!!!!

cant have gas without pipes too
damn right its there fault, keep it up tards

http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&file_id=5468
Olympic Pipe Line accident in Bellingham kills three youths on June 10, 1999.

HistoryLink.org Essay 5468 : Printer-Friendly Format
On Thursday afternoon, June 10, 1999, a 16-inch fuel line owned by the Olympic Pipe Line Company ruptures in Bellingham, spilling 277,200 gallons of gasoline into Hanna and Whatcom creeks. The volatile fuel explodes, killing three youths: Liam Wood, 18, and Wade King and Stephen Tsiorvas, both age 10. The massive fireball sends a plume of smoke 30,000 feet into the air, visible from Anacortes to Vancouver, B.C., Canada.
The Sequence of Events

At 3:25 p.m. on June 10, 1999, the Olympic Pipe Line Company was pumping gasoline thorough a 16-inch pipeline from a refinery in Ferndale, south to terminals in Seattle and Portland, when a pressure relief valve failed. The resulting pressure surge led to a catastrophic rupture in the line traversing Whatcom Falls Park, and sent 277,200 gallons of highly volatile gasoline into Hanna Creek and Whatcom Creek, which flows through downtown Bellingham into Bellingham Bay.
At 4:35 p.m. an Olympic Pipeline field worker who happened to be in the Whatcom Creek area called the company’s command center in Renton, reporting a strong odor of gasoline. Local residents and businesses also started calling the Whatcom County 911 Dispatch Center reporting the strong odor of gasoline in the vicinity of Whatcom Creek.
At about 4:45 p.m., Bellingham Fire Department Hazardous Materials Teams, sent to investigate, found copious quantities of gasoline flowing down the creek toward Bellingham Bay. The water was pink and the fumes overwhelming. The Bellingham Fire Department and Police Department immediately began evacuating the area and setting up barricades. The Bellingham Fire Department notified Olympic Pipe Line there was gasoline flowing down Whatcom Creek toward the city. But it was too late.
At 4:55 p.m., the gasoline vapors exploded, creating a river of fire from the rupture site near the Whatcom Falls Water Treatment Station, one and a half miles down the creek, to Interstate-5. The massive fireball sent a plume of smoke 30,000 feet into the air, visible from Anacortes to Vancouver B. C. Dense black smoke caused the closure of Interstate-5 for more than an hour. Fearing the fire would continue flowing down the creek into downtown Bellingham, police officers began evacuating businesses. Gasoline migrated into the city’s sewer system, and the vapors were at explosive levels for an hour. The U. S. Coast Guard, concerned the fuel could ignite dock pilings and vessels, closed Bellingham Bay for a one-mile radius from the mouth of Whatcom Creek.
The Victims

The first victim was Liam Gordon Wood, age 18, who was fly fishing in Whatcom Creek when the rupture occurred. According to Whatcom County Medical Examiner Dr. Gary Goldfogel, Wood was overcome by noxious fumes, and fell into the creek and drowned prior to the explosion.
The other two victims, Wade King, 10, and Stephen Tsiorvas, 10, schoolmates at Roosevelt Elementary School, were playing north of the Hanna and Whatcom Creek confluence when the explosion occurred. The boys survived the blast but suffered second and third degree burns over 90 percent of their bodies. They were found immediately and flown to the intensive-care burn unit at Harborview Medical Center in Seattle. Tragically, the boys died the following day, on June 11, 1999.
Astonishingly, the explosion and fire caused no additional deaths and injuries were few. By 6:30 p.m., firefighters managed to get the major blazes under control, and by 7:00 p.m., the black smoke had largely dissipated. Fortunately, the fire did not travel west from Interstate-5, and this saved downtown Bellingham. The inferno, estimated to have reached 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit, caused a high-voltage power line and two substations to be shut down, disrupting electrical service to about 58,000 Bellingham customers for several hours.
Damage to Property

Most of the collateral property damage was caused by explosions, which broke windows in homes and businesses and leveled a house on Valencia Street near the creek. The fire was mostly contained in and along the creek bed, leaving the greenbelt charred and blackened. Authorities were astounded that the damage was so light.
Washington State Department of Natural Resources crews assisted Bellingham firefighters in extinguishing the remaining fires in Whatcom Falls Park and helped to evaluate the immediate hazards to officials and search teams from burned trees, debris, and fuel vapors.
The water treatment plant and pump station at Whatcom Falls sustained extensive damage. The treatment plant adds chlorine to the water pumped from Lake Whatcom, Bellingham’s main water supply. The fuel spill occurred about 150 feet in front of the facility, and the subsequent explosion shattered all the windows and blew the doors off the building. Ken Thomas, assistant director of the Bellingham Public Works Department told The Bellingham Herald that for all practical purposes, the pump station had been destroyed. He said the brick and concrete shell was salvageable, but all the control systems, and even the fire extinguishers melted in the fire.
In addition to damaging the station’s five huge water pumps, the blast also damaged chemical feeding equipment. Fortunately, the tanks holding toxic chlorine were undamaged. By the following morning, two of the damaged pumps were temporarily on-line and cranes had arrived to lift out the burned-out motors for the other three pumps. To comply with the law regarding safe drinking water, public works employees began manually feeding chemicals into the water treatment system. Bellingham residents were advised to conserve water until all the water pumps were repaired and back on-line.
The Bellingham Fire Department’s investigation determined that Wade King and Stephen Tsiorvas ignited the gasoline vapor from the ruptured pipeline when they inadvertently lit a butane fireplace lighter near the spill in Whatcom Falls Park. The boys had been using the lighter to set off fireworks outside the park earlier in the day. Bellingham Fire Chief Mike Leigh gave his view that the boys were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The Boys Saved Bellingham

In a twist of fate, King and Tsiorvas became unwitting heroes. In a statement to the news media on June 18, 1999, Bellingham Mayor Mark Asmendson said, “The cause of the fire was the fuel released from the Olympic pipeline. The fact that it was ignited was inevitable. With the thousands and thousands of gallons of fuel that were proceeding down Whatcom Creek, had the ignition not taken place where it did and at the time it did, the damage to this community and the loss of life would have been far greater. These boys completely, without notice or any awareness, were involved in an action that ended up being heroic for the city of Bellingham.”
Mayor Asmendson further stated “Despite the horror and sadness to these children, we, as a community, are fortunate [the fire] occurred at the time and the place it did because the alternatives and more time would have only made it worse” (The Bellingham Herald).
Criminal Violations and Criminal Negligence
On October 8, 2002, The National Transportation Safety Board, after a three-year investigation, ruled that the Olympic pipeline explosion was caused by a cascading series of events rather than a single catastrophic failure of the fuel pipe. The NTSB cited damage caused in 1994 by IMCO General Construction Company while conducting excavation work at nearby Whatcom Falls Water Treatment Plant, the failure of the Olympic Pipe Line Company to identify or repair the damage, a faulty computer system which failed to respond to repeated indications that pressure was building up inside the pipeline, a faulty pressure relief valve and failure to adequately train its employees.
A criminal investigation by the Environmental Protection Agency resulted in a seven-count indictment by a federal grand jury in Seattle in September 2001. The indictment charged Olympic Pipe Line, and Equilon Pipeline, which had run the Olympic in 1999, with five felony violations of the Hazardous Liquid Pipeline Safety Act and two misdemeanor violations of the Clean Water Act. Included in the indictment were three Olympic employees, a vice-president/manager, a supervisor, and the controller at the time of the accident.
On July 28, 1999, the parents of Wade King and Stephen Tsiorvas filed a wrongful-death lawsuit in Whatcom County Superior Court naming the Olympic Pipe Line Company, the Equilon Pipeline Company and three Olympic employees as defendants. On April 10, 2002, in an out-of-court settlement, Olympic and Equilon agreed to pay the families of King and Tsiorvas $75 million. The Wood family reached a separate, undisclosed settlement with the companies.
On December 11, 2002, Olympic Pipe Line pleaded guilty in U. S. District Court, Seattle, to one felony count under the Hazardous Liquid Pipeline Safety Act and two Clean Water Act misdemeanors. Equilon Pipeline entered no-contest pleas to the same violations. Under the plea agreement, the companies agreed to pay a record $112 million to settle all federal criminal fines and most civil claims against them. According to U. S. Attorney John McKay, the pleas marked the first time a pipeline company had been convicted under the 1979 Hazardous Liquid Pipeline Safety Act.
After this terrible tragedy, Representative Kelli Linville (D-Bellingham) sponsored a bill that would give the state responsibility for regulating intrastate pipelines and improve pipeline safety. On March 28, 2000, during a ceremony at Bellingham City Hall, Governor Gary Locke signed into law the Washington Pipeline Safety Act (House Bill 2420), which allows the Washington State Utilities and Transportation Commission to inspect 2,500 miles of intrastate pipelines and oversee the state’s pipeline-safety program.
Governor Locke said the law "sets us on a clear path toward stronger and more effective regulations of pipelines and better prevention of accidents" (Seattle P-I). Annual fees levied against the pipeline operators pay for the program, which costs about $1 million a year.

 

[NoDrama]

All accidents are the fault of the manufacturer who built the product that was in the accident. Whichever corporation makes more profit is the one who is at fault.

 

[abandonconflict]

Nah, I'm pretty much informed my friend, thank you!

sig worthy.

 

[Dr Kynes]

nice strawman, we're talking about redistribution though, not income tax

not a strawman, YOU decided to use jefferson's views on taxation to support your distinctly non-jeffersonian position, therefore the burden to justify your citation falls upon YOU.

the rehtorical fallacy involved is not a strawman, but rather a "Red Herring". an unrelated misdirection disguised as substantive argument solely to distract from the weakness of the proponent's position. (he would be THEE by the by...)

 

[beenthere]

,line was he wants to restructure government systems to facilitate some redistribution , in order to make sure everyone has a shot

all he said was that he believes in redistribution in this way is ok,

please go on why this is bad, to restructure parts of the government that already act in this way, Social security for one

The restructuring of government means legislating more taxes to redistribute revenue to more social programs. This is a good thing for progressives and those who do not strive for a better life.
Bad for the rest of us who do!

 

[beenthere]

sig worthy.

Then put it in your sig big mouth, who's stopping you?

 

[nontheist]

cant have gas without pipes too
damn right its there fault, keep it up tards

HAHA Tards? All I see are a bunch of morons trying to inflate survival resources out of reach for them self and others. So do you want the government to start making everyone that gets electricity, water, gas purchase yet another insurance for utility accidental coverage? Everything you do "trickles down" on your dumbass, the problem is everyone else around you get pissed on for your ignorance.

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

All accidents are the fault of the manufacturer who built the product that was in the accident. Whichever corporation makes more profit is the one who is at fault.

well you would know better then a judge, cause it was rules to be at the fault of the company. maybe you should actually read it and you will know that the line was leaking for a week and they knew pressure was off for that section, valves can be checked easily


keep making excuses you cowards

 

[Grandpapy]

The restructuring of government means legislating more taxes to redistribute revenue to more social programs. This is a good thing for progressives and those who do not strive for a better life.
Bad for the rest of us who do!

Closing one loophole would re-redistribute.

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

The restructuring of government means legislating more taxes to redistribute revenue to more social programs. This is a good thing for progressives and those who do not strive for a better life.
Bad for the rest of us who do!

weird cause thats not what he said, but i see that you want what he siad to mean that^

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

On December 11, 2002, Olympic Pipe Line pleaded guilty in U. S. District Court, Seattle, to one felony count under the Hazardous Liquid Pipeline Safety Act and two Clean Water Act misdemeanors. Equilon Pipeline entered no-contest pleas to the same violations. Under the plea agreement, the companies agreed to pay a record $112 million to settle all federal criminal fines and most civil claims against them. According to U. S. Attorney John McKay, the pleas marked the first time a pipeline company had been convicted under the 1979 Hazardous Liquid Pipeline Safety Act.

definitelythe kids fault for being there . . . . . . you two are a bunch of hyenas waiting for scraps of political issues, like scavengers . . .


On October 8, 2002, The National Transportation Safety Board, after a three-year investigation, ruled that the Olympic pipeline explosion was caused by a cascading series of events rather than a single catastrophic failure of the fuel pipe. The NTSB cited damage caused in 1994 by IMCO General Construction Company while conducting excavation work at nearby Whatcom Falls Water Treatment Plant, the failure of the Olympic Pipe Line Company to identify or repair the damage, a faulty computer system which failed to respond to repeated indications that pressure was building up inside the pipeline, a faulty pressure relief valve and failure to adequately train its employees.

A criminal investigation by the Environmental Protection Agency resulted in a seven-count indictment by a federal grand jury in Seattle in September 2001. The indictment charged Olympic Pipe Line, and Equilon Pipeline, which had run the Olympic in 1999, with five felony violations of the Hazardous Liquid Pipeline Safety Act and two misdemeanor violations of the Clean Water Act. Included in the indictment were three Olympic employees, a vice-president/manager, a supervisor, and the controller at the time of the accident.


The first victim was Liam Gordon Wood, age 18, who was fly fishing in Whatcom Creek when the rupture occurred. According to Whatcom County Medical Examiner Dr. Gary Goldfogel, Wood was overcome by noxious fumes, and fell into the creek and drowned prior to the explosion.

The other two victims, Wade King, 10, and Stephen Tsiorvas, 10, schoolmates at Roosevelt Elementary School, were playing north of the Hanna and Whatcom Creek confluence when the explosion occurred. The boys survived the blast but suffered second and third degree burns over 90 percent of their bodies. They were found immediately and flown to the intensive-care burn unit at Harborview Medical Center in Seattle. Tragically, the boys died the following day, on June 11, 1999.

 

[NoDrama]

well you would know better then a judge, cause it was rules to be at the fault of the company. maybe you should actually read it and you will know that the line was leaking for a week and they knew pressure was low for that section, valves can be checked easily


keep making excuses you cowards

??? WTF are you talking about? A jury ruled in favor of the plaintiff doesn't make it the fault of ford, it just means ford lost that case. There is no precedence set here.

What do valves have to do with ruptured gas tanks? Are you even on the same page as the rest of us?

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

if something you are responsible for, is faulty and you do nothing then you are at fault, how is this correlation not evident . . .

or are you to obtuse to realize that company's have a responsibility to keep there products safe to a degree within there designated purpose of use . . .. .cars get in accidents it should be perfectly reasonable to expect a car manufacturer to not make its fuel tanks like tin foil(or whatever the problem was)

and for gas company to have back to back safety systems and trained employes to maintain the pipes . . . ..

Does this responsibility concept got you spinning

 

[NoDrama]

if something you are responsible for, is faulty and you do nothing then you are at fault, how is this correlation not evident . . .

or are you to obtuse to realize that company's have a responsibility to keep there products safe to a degree within there designated purpose of use . . .. .cars get in accidents it should be perfectly reasonable to expect a car manufacturer to not make its fuel takes like tin foil(or whatever the problem was)

and for gas company to have back to back safety systems and trained employes to maintain the pipes . . . ..

Accidents are no ones fault, otherwise they wouldn't be called accidents they would be called intentionals.

 

[Dr Kynes]

??? WTF are you talking about? A jury ruled in favor of the plaintiff doesn't make it the fault of ford, it just means ford lost that case. There is no precedence set here.

What do valves have to do with ruptured gas tanks? Are you even on the same page as the rest of us?

there are arguments to be made on both sides.

internal documents show ford was well ware of the hazard posed by single wall gas tanks in such a vulnerable position exposed directly to the passenger compartment. the floor of the hatchback cargo area was actually the top of the gas tank which was far too thin by current standards, even if it were separate, and not part of the unibody construction. ford recognized the design vulnerability, and redesigned other models to alter the flaw (the maverick had an independent floor pan above the gas tank, which the pinto lacked, so you can call off the dogs and cancel the APB) ford did the math and determined (in their own documents) that the cost of recalling and repairing the vulnerability would be lower than the cost of settling the wrongful death lawsuits from the number of people expected to be carbecued as a result of this design fault. the net result is, ford weighed the average settlement costs against the cost of repair, and decided that the settlements for death was cheaper. this kind of math goes on every day, its called cost benefit analysis. every company does it, and so does the government. the most important lesson is the LAWYERS created the situation where all manufacturers are responsible for every possible way their products might fail, and they can be sued willy nilly for everything imaginable from a dumb bitch who dumps hot coffee on her pussy, to a dipshit who sits on his own balls and blames the restaurant for their (entirely ordinary) toilet seats.

the pipeline explosions are different, ford was clueless, tone deaf, and hamfisted in their analysis of death settlements vs recall costs, but they violated no laws or safety standards. the recent explosion in the SF bay area,and the cited gasoline spill in BC are examples of a company failing to adhere to accepted lawful standards for the safety and reliability of their facilities resulting in death of innocent bystanders when their shit fails. had the pipe failed because some dipshit hit it with a backhoe (its happened) or an earthquake, or an act of war by terrorists, or some other unavoidable mishap which no-one can prepare forthe company would be blameless, but PG&E FAKED inspections, falsified reports and let a natural gas pipe blow up, likewise the gas company in BC didnt inspect their pipes and valves as required so they are held to account monetarily.

likewise union carbide was careless and shameful in their bhopal plant, but indian law prevails there, and they paid the price indian law demanded. if india wants tougher laws and tougher restrictions they know how to get them, and what it will cost them in jobs, tax revenue and industrial capability.

 

[NoDrama]

Now i see I missed a post where samwell posted the heinous coverup of poorly maintained gas lines. Until then I couldn't figure out WTF you guys were talking about.

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

Accidents are no ones fault, otherwise they wouldn't be called accidents they would be called intentionals.

you are a tool, a dull one at that

Now i see I missed a post where samwell posted the heinous coverup of poorly maintained gas lines. Until then I couldn't figure out WTF you guys were talking about.

ignorance is not an excuse, but in your case it was a accident right

 

[beenthere]

again, if ioi own a factory and my taxes go up 30% do i take a 30% loss or raise the price of my goods to compensate for the newest taking? That's not my argument, the point I was trying to make is, the left know this when they raise taxes and over regulate business but then blame on business!

rich people dont pay income taxes any more than companies do. if the cost can be passed along top somebody else, it invariably does get passed along to somebody else. Everyone, given the chance would be guilty of this bro, it's human nature.

further, since payroll taxes (sosh security medicare etc..) are only deducted for the first $175,000 the "rich" actually dont pay any but a meager triviality of the largest single tax there is, I disagree, they pay the majority of payroll taxes, you're wrong on this one. As it sits today, employers pay 60% of the employees payroll tax, while the employee pays 40% And your $175k is annual cap on their personal contributions, which would take the average wage earner over four years. and it IS a tax. "sosh security" will never pay me one dime despite working for wages since i was 12, and full time since i was 16. the ponzi scheme is upside down. all the new money goes to pay off old money's debts and the entire pyramid is gonna crumble long before a see one thin dime of the money taken from me over the last 30 years. money which i could ill afford to sacrifice on the altar of the greater good to start with.

when the actual numbers are compiled, including ALL taxes levies and "revenue enhancements" poor people not only surrender the largest percentage of their money as taxation, but also the largest share of direct and easily measurable taxes are also paid by those who are NOT in the investment or propertied classes. which is to say, the poor. the majority of federal revenue comes from payroll taxes, Not true my friend, the majority of tax revenue comes from federal income taxes, payroll taxes are not used as part of the general fund. less than 40% comes from income, property, or capital gains taxes combined thus the poor pay the most through a higher rate of combined taxation, and a much larger pool from which to siphon. this does not even include the well established pattern of expense recoupment.

when the taxes trickle down as higher prices, steeper rents, and heavier burdens for bureaucratic fees, poor folks wind up paying nearly all taxes with their blood and sweat. That is my point and if the majority of left leaning voter could realize this, they too would be against tax increases.

when you tax a store an extra 10 cents for a loaf of bread sold the bread buyer pays it
when you tax the baker for every loaf of bread sold to stores, the bread buyer pays it
when you tax the miller for all flour sold to bakers, the bread buyer pays it
when you tax the farmer for all wheat sold to millers, the bread buyer pays it
when you tax the trucker who moves the wheat from farm to miller to baker to store, the bread buyer pays that too.

when you tax the owner of the factory, the guy who buys the shoes pays those taxes so the owner of the shoe factory can grow richer, which is right and good. when the taxes on the factory or the factory owner go up the cost of shoes goes up to compensate the owner for his new expenses. this also is right and good.

foolishly believing that the owner of a shoe factory, a bakery or a farm would take it in the butt from the tax man without increasing the cost of his products is downright foolish.

or do you think steve jobs would sell ipods at a loss because he's such a nice guy?

this is why kennedy and reagan lowered taxes for everybody, because a rising tide lifts all boats, deliberately bailing out one boat into the hull of another smaller, less stable boat might be good for the guys with the higher rails and tighter deck boards, but its simple murder for the guy in the dinghy taking the water from your yacht's bilge pump.

Dude, my fingers are tired! LOL