DIY Modular LED-Light

stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
I really to admire ,the 'reactor critical' photo,forgot to mention...

Read this ..
Stardusty idea...
And I know how much you like stardust..He-he-he....

:

A crazy idea came to me yesterday,during a joint,have to admit...

I was thinking how to make the little panel of mine ,better...
But,this can be utilised,if at all,to every other panel....
And I say 'if at all',cause I have my reasons to say so...
Nevertheless,an idea is an idea and has to come to ...light...(?)

Thinking of better thermal design and management....
How ?
Take away ,the ..middle man...
Take away the pcb.....
Let me explain....

Taking away the pcb ,(of course I don't have to explain,specially to you,how many and which are, the benefits of that...)
will need to have the heatsink surface insulated, with a really thin layer (problem #1 ) of 1/10 mm ,with epoxy....100microns..
Like on Pcb....
Can it be done-by hand -with compressed air ? Say with an i.e aerograph ?
First Agent A ,thin layer of 0.05 mm and afterwards(after washing the aero-gun,pistol,jet,whateva..), the
Agent B of liquid epoxy sprayed ,-another thin layer of 0.05 mm ....
They will start reacting to form the epoxy ,with no problems...Think so,at least....
Problem #1 is precision at thickness of agents A/B layers....

Problem #2 will be the epoxy it's shelf...
Has to be of such elasticity ,so to follow,the rather big(or I'm misinformed here ? ),thermal "movements" of aluminium..(Expansion/Retraction)
Has to withstand ,say....At least 3 times the possible temperature of led thermal conduction plug area...
Say ,has to withstand 300°C...
Has to stick to/bond with aluminium ,of course....
Has to be at liquid form,initially
In Europe we have an epoxy like that....
W3st3rn S/St3ms ,it's the name of the brand..
In the States,probably you have a wider variety...

Problem#3 ....Contact " seats" & elec. " lines" .......

Can you find 'em ,already in 100-200 micron ,copper sheets..???
Think ,that one can find them...
If not....
Use of very thin copper wire....
( thin straws,out of multi-fillament cables..?....Not much current,afterall ..350mA .... )

How,on earth, you stick the whole circuit ,on the -still bonding-sticky epoxy ?
So gentle,just to touch the epoxy layer..
If the -still in semi-liquid form/gel- epoxy layer ,gets " scratched", the circuit will / may contact the heatsink....
(except if heatsink anodised...Eh...Hemm.....)
How one does that ?
How ?
Where to find really thin layer of copper ? (..or gold!!! -audiophile heritage-He-he-he....)
How to make a circuit and tiny contact seats ?

If one can manage that....
One can use crees/osrams or whatever else....
With ease in design...
Different " format " leds ,on same panel...
Directly to heatsink...Way lower Thermal resistance...Way higher therm. conductivity...
In every kind of heatsink ,( well ...almost...)
......
Without the need of the 1mm layer of star-pcbs or rectangular,ect bigger ones...
....
Hm..
Now,come to think about it better...
...
Think it's doable....
...
Difficult,messy,tricky ,but doable...
And the whole employment will pay back twice.....
( Cost-Cooling efficiency..)

Any suggestions,about it ?
Finding any weak spots or spotting other ploblems that may arise,
are also to be much appreciated...
 
tenthirty

tenthirty

Well-Known Member
Aluminum glues like shit!!
Epoxy hardens with age.
The difference in expansion coefficients will crack the epoxy after time. (heat cycles)

Better idea?
gold electroplating then mask, then solder to the gold.
Wire up over the mask.
Could get much fancier if you want.
 
stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
tenthirty said:
Aluminum glues like shit!!
Epoxy hardens with age.
The difference in expansion coefficients will crack the epoxy after time. (heat cycles)

Better idea?
gold electroplating then mask, then solder to the gold.
Wire up over the mask.
Could get much fancier if you want.
Click to expand...
I do not see any insulation layer there...
The small,little @sses of the leds (or their contacts if tiny crees/osrams) has to be insulated from heatsink surface...

One step at a time...
First Insulation layer..
( Guod,I can take it -the whole thing-,elsewhere ,if you wish so...)
Epoxy hardens ...
Ok...
(Pretty sure,though ,that this epoxy I'm referring to,is a tough nut to crack...
Tested ,under intensive maritime use..
And the sun ,here..Ohh,it burns,brother...
You can fry an egg,on your car's top ...
Oh,you should come,to see for yourshelf...)

(Can alum be gold plated ? Didn't know that one...)
 
guod

guod

Well-Known Member
Are you just being ,bad
,with me ? ..
Or I misunderstood you ?
Click to expand...
for the first, no
maybe for the second.



Thinking of better thermal design and management....
Click to expand...
Diamonds are the Leds best friends

April 2009
Researchers at Fraunhofer-IFAM have developed a new material which allows better cooling than the conventional copper and aluminum solutions.
To achieve this result, diamond powder has been added to metallic copper. Diamond conducts heat five times better than copper.
The result is a compound with 1.5 times the heat conduction of copper.
Another advantage is that the material does not expand too much when heated, otherwise it couldn't be used in electronic devices.

dymalloy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dymalloy

http://www.sintering.pl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13&Itemid=33

----------------
and for the poor people

http://www.sinkpad.com/
 
stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
The new ( V4s' )evos' use 'em...
(Factory of sinkp@d, based in India...)
Com'on ..
Isn't there any possibility ,that we can.."light ", without 'em ?
 
guod

guod

Well-Known Member
that happens if you grow with lenses & way too much 660nm & no warm white or neutral white Leds :confused:

m50bw0.jpgm50bw2.jpgm50 bw1.jpg

dremel drill press in the first pic as ref. Backlight from the Modul

see if i can beat the Hans/Ledgrow-panel (nearly the same Power)


and here some popcorn for the show.

m50bw3.jpg
 
IlovePlants

IlovePlants

Well-Known Member
No wonder people try to dope up their 660 levels late in flowering. It seems to just force the plant to stretch. Shade avoidance from too high a 660 ratio?

I would like to see a plant grown with those high 660 lights only used during the last 10 days. Maybe it would encourage some foxtailing and late flower stretch?

A while ago I was pondering a breeding project that purely encouraged foxtailing buds. I was thinking of making some plants that resembled weeping willows late in flower. Maybe this red doping will be the encouragement I need to make the project a reality! I would hope that the yield wouldn't be affected too much by the 660s, maybe I would just slowly increase the duration of the day that was high in 660, rather than run all day on it?

None the less great post!
Sincerely,
ILovePlants
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
I added 1/8 660 (during previous grow) to my 4ft HO T5 during last ~ 3 weeks of flower. I no know IT stopped tric and calyx production, but in combination with a Far Red (in HO T5 I also use a Wavepoint Coral Wave), but took it out to insert the 660. SDS says they need to be together during flower. I MAY try that, but only as you suggest during last 7-10 days

Here's a couple of comparison photos 324w HO T5s using a blend of aquarium bulbs (had wrong mix) vs my Runt tent with ~ 60w of low watt leds BUT with closer to correct nm balance.

Pic 1 & 2 are the 2 'Runts' from 8 of my F1 cross seedlings. Notice how much bigger denser the secondary leaves are than Pic 3-4

Pic 3-4 was the hardiest of the 8 that I moved under 108w HO T5 then 216w now 324ws. These plants are finally taking off now that I adjusted the nm balance 4 days ago

View attachment 2352814View attachment 2352815View attachment 2352817View attachment 2352818
 
tenthirty

tenthirty

Well-Known Member
stardustsailor said:
I do not see any insulation layer there...
The small,little @sses of the leds (or their contacts if tiny crees/osrams) has to be insulated from heatsink surface...

One step at a time...
First Insulation layer..
( Guod,I can take it -the whole thing-,elsewhere ,if you wish so...)
Epoxy hardens ...
Ok...
(Pretty sure,though ,that this epoxy I'm referring to,is a tough nut to crack...
Tested ,under intensive maritime use..
And the sun ,here..Ohh,it burns,brother...
You can fry an egg,on your car's top ...
Oh,you should come,to see for yourshelf...)

(Can alum be gold plated ? Didn't know that one...)
Click to expand...
None of us have the machinery to do this and it would cost an arm and a leg, but............................

1) mask heatsink for led thermal pads.
2) electroplate hs so all the pads are gold.
3) lay down a layer of teflon or some other suitable high heat electrically insulating material.
4) lay down tracks. (many ways to do this)
5) put the heatsink in the oven and tin everything.
6) drop all of the diodes in their spots at the same time while the hs is still hot.

Can you plate Aluminium?

Aluminium is conductive and can be electroplated but the problem is that Aluminum oxidizes after pretreatment so that an immersion plating process with zincate is necessary before plating, and while this is certainly widely done, it is more problematic and somewhat less reliable than plating onto other metals. Practice is required before offering commercial services on this metal
Click to expand...
This also goes for epoxy. The aluminum will corrode under the substrate over a period of time, thus weakening the bond. At least with gold it will be localized and thermal transfer will be top notch.
 
guod

guod

Well-Known Member
tenthirty said:
None of us have the machinery to do this and it would cost an arm and a leg, but............................
.
Click to expand...
Chip on heat-sink – optimized packaging

CeramCool® can be coated directly. The whole surface can be used as
a circuit carrier which can be firmly packed with components on customized
circuit layouts – while providing reliable electrical isolation. The process
can be simplified by bonding chips directly onto the specially designed
CeramCool® metallized surface. Chip on heat-sink! Compact and simple.

see here
http://www.ceramtec.com/ceramcool/

This also goes for epoxy. The aluminum will corrode under the substrate over a period of time....
Click to expand...
Aluminium alloys are anodized to increase corrosion resistance, to increase surface hardness, and to allow dyeing (coloring), improved lubrication, or improved adhesion
 
guod

guod

Well-Known Member
IlovePlants said:
No wonder people try to dope up their 660 levels late in flowering. It seems to just force the plant to stretch. Shade avoidance from too high a 660 ratio?

None the less great post!
Sincerely,
ILovePlants
Click to expand...
if i look at my other grow with a light-ratio of

1:4:6:6 / 450: NW:630:660

m30stem.jpg

????????????????????????????????
 
IlovePlants

IlovePlants

Well-Known Member
Interesting, what's with those little guys growing around the bottom?

Seems like a decent stem for the pot size, although to be honest I never really get much out of people's photos unless they have a pictorial type thing going on. I need to see the plant from all angles, as in full nude, bust, face, ass, etc, to get some data from it.

Are the leaves being burned from light? Nitrogen deficiency? Shade die off?

Sincerely,
ILovePlants
 
guod

guod

Well-Known Member
those little guys are chillies(habanero).
I put them in at last potting, to see how much light will be under this dense canopy, they are now 4 weeks old.

Are the leaves being burned from light? Nitrogen deficiency? Shade die off?
Click to expand...
For me it looks like End of Life cycle.
 
IlovePlants

IlovePlants

Well-Known Member
Ahhh, I used to do that with mixed greens, but it was more to determine nutrient content. Using small plants like that can give you a great idea of whats left in top soil at the end of use. The only reason I used mixed greens...I like salads. Any interesting conclusions coming up from that experiment? Cool stuff.
Sincerely,
ILovePlants
 
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