nutrients and dirtbaggers--

buckaroo bonzai

Well-Known Member
so I just did a soil mix and was wondering what other dirtbaggers have experienced?
if anyone has experience with high NPK mixes---?

my latest mix comes out 32-26-26

does anyone else have the type of advanced experience with soil mix to input?

i have had excellent results in the past with my mixes usually around 25-20-20

any input would be interesting---

thks and peace with a phattie--
 

buckaroo bonzai

Well-Known Member
my mixes usually are close to 7--ph...nuetral

this is a new one for me although I have made some close---30-20-20 or close to that-
and results same---neutral medium

i will be watching the medium ph closely on this one--

i am stepping out with this one though and tryna--ramp it up a bit as my past runs have been good but--
we always want to get better eh?

and I throw a lot of other secret things into my mix that I cannot share but make for a great blend and counterbalance my nutes--

i am just wondering for 'advanced' dirt baggers if anyone else does these high of numbers and what experiences they may have to share---to help a nickel like myself out---?

i am shooting for the dark dark green waxy plant that I havent been happy with so far although they are dark dark---not waxy

just hopin to read some experienced feedback-

peace
 

Rrog

Well-Known Member
You might look at Subcools Supersoil for a set-and-forget soil. Once microbes are active, soil pH is irrelevant, and actually unchangeable.
 

bmf725

Well-Known Member
and I throw a lot of other secret things into my mix that I cannot share but make for a great blend and counterbalance my nutes--

i am just wondering for 'advanced' dirt baggers if anyone else does these high of numbers and what experiences they may have to share---to help a nickel like myself out---?

peace
Secret things pfff I smell bullshit....
 

buckaroo bonzai

Well-Known Member
Hope theyre not too dark. Too much nitrogen is bad for the ladies.

as dark as I can get them...without burning them--that's what your reffer ing to?
and I don't think you can have too much nitrogen available after its acclimated---but I do know you can burn and I have-

there are many nitrogen supplements that are at least in double digits--knowing how to break them down and make readily available
 

buckaroo bonzai

Well-Known Member
You might look at Subcools Supersoil for a set-and-forget soil. Once microbes are active, soil pH is irrelevant, and actually unchangeable.
learned that supersoil mixing years ago--I am talking for advanced mixologists-
someone that has done mixing for awhile--a bartender if you will

i feed the soil--not the plant--
 

Rrog

Well-Known Member
If you fed the soil and not the plant, then you would not be using bottles of anything, and you'd use compost and EWC. And you wouldn't be tracking pH.
 

buckaroo bonzai

Well-Known Member
Secret things pfff I smell bullshit....

nope don't use cowshit--all though some pholks swear by it-

dont use animal dung at all---unless you count my brothers --the worms---
would use rabbit shit since it is the coldest and best of the dung-- if I did like to use shit
have seen the hillbilly dirt guys here with all the poop from the zoo-
have wanted to try it--

maybe you smell bokashi? since that is one of my secrets but it is not a secret if you are aware of it--

not sure what your smellin but.....pfffft yourself unless you were hittin a phattie--then I don't take it personal

have you ever mixed soil for a 400gallon pot?

have you ever met anyone that watered with a 2" "fire" hose?

have you studied NPK? and how much variation you can make? a lot of pholks use a 20-10-10 or 30-20-20 what are you after?
rapid growth and a huge monster?
have you watched your plants when you give them everything they need in abundance?

so if I grew 12 plants 3-5 ft high or 2-3 8' tall--how would you do your mix according to the size of the container and plant?

whats the difference if I am applying outdoor grow experience to my smaller indoor garden?

do you mix your own medium or are you hydro which I see so much here---?
 

Rrog

Well-Known Member
I use Bokashi, but I never ever met a grower that kept "secret ingredients." Not too interested in continuing this convo.
 

buckaroo bonzai

Well-Known Member
who said bottles of anything?
you mean vitamins after I have my alive soil?

or fulvic acid?

humic?

one feeds the soil the other the plant--

i usually do my mixes with different things to offset ph--
some organic stuff raises and some lowers-

you mean like this stuff?
http://www.onlinepot.org/grow/NPKCharts.htm

i haven't been able to find glacier rock dust here --rock phosphate---?
or oyster shell--crab meal
or other things I have used in the past--

i am doing some different things but lookin for those mixologists out there--
I have met pholks get 800$ a yard for their mix---not around here..

i know a soil scientist/worm pharmer gets herkamer diamonds,ruby ,emerald,anotomic gold,colloidal silver--other things I don't know....feeds them to worms and you would be shocked at the potency of those worm casings--
 

buckaroo bonzai

Well-Known Member
I use Bokashi, but I never ever met a grower that kept "secret ingredients." Not too interested in continuing this convo.

well wen I say secret it means my own preference and I don't always share everything--unless it's herb
and you shouldn't get butt hurt you should throw something out--!

im looking for pholks mix their own soils and mediums and how far have you stretched things or what is your stylee?

what have you done with the numbers?

what have you seen?

i can tell you some about --

looking feedback not agitate aggravate or intimidate --or anything in between
not pot snobbin either--

would share spliff if you could grab it-
 

Rrog

Well-Known Member
Humic and Fulvic come from quality compost and vermicompost.

http://www.portlandpottery.com/ -

4x - Glacial Rock Dust - Canadian Glacial (Gaia Green label)

1x - Bentonite - from the pottery supply store in PDX

1x - Oyster Shell Powder - the standard product from San Francisco Bay

1x - Basalt

Also:
Montmorillonite Clay
Pyrophyllite Clay

From my good Friend Clackamas Coot
 

buckaroo bonzai

Well-Known Member
Humic and Fulvic come from quality compost and vermicompost.

http://www.portlandpottery.com/ -

4x - Glacial Rock Dust - Canadian Glacial (Gaia Green label)

1x - Bentonite - from the pottery supply store in PDX

1x - Oyster Shell Powder - the standard product from San Francisco Bay

1x - Basalt

Also:
Montmorillonite Clay
Pyrophyllite Clay

From my good Friend Clackamas Coot

funny I used to live clackamass---in carver if you know?
15yrs ago--?
didnt really garden much back then-

i take it that is a somewhat rough list of your mix since you put 4x..1x..etc

i haven't looked hard enough for a couple things I put out there but I know they're available just finding the source and been going to small gro shops with their wanting to sell me their shelf products--

next year I will be seriously scouting farm bureaus and farm supply outlets for different ammendments--and pottery outlets!

do you track your numbers on the NPK and what have you taken it to ? or how much have you stretched your ammended soil to manipulate the NPK and what do you prefer on numbers? or what have you experimented with?
what's the highest NPK you have run?

if you keep your numbers even then the ph is usually close to neutral--givin watering and other factors--

i know if you mix a small batch you are going to want your numbers lower for the smaller container I would think--I have never used smaller than a 10gal for any of my mix and I anticipate a long veg cycle--

i would not put a 30-20-20 into a 1gl or even 5gl with a teenage plant--I would start with maybe a normal 10-5-5 or something similar-numbers that most nutes are average

i worked for someone some years ago used to top dress almost a foot of ammendments in his containers and got 11' ft side branches--!

i do somthing similar to an outdoor if I am doing full term seed plants or I adjust for clones and the ability to manipulate them easier than a full term plant--in smaller container

and I mix a large batch of soil when I mix--to cook off

i like the different clys you say you use and I will be researching--thks
that is a tidbit

what different results do you achieve from the two? tastes? aroma?
i believe everything affects the outcome---
 

Rrog

Well-Known Member
Essentially a high draining medium built with typical guanos, meals, etc and amended with compost and worm castings will be taken over by the plant which governs the microbes. The plant tells the microbes what to bring in and when, and it rewards the microbes with food (root exudate).

My point is that maybe not to worry so much about NPK calcs. That's not part of the vocabulary of a living soil farmer.
 

abe supercro

Well-Known Member
I really have no idea what my ultimate npk digits end up being by the time I end up amending a soil. def not a pro 'mixologist' just yet... actually it can be hit or miss sometimes here in the "G", but I'm never giving up on my blends. Adjust for most sativas and pull back on the add-ins some. How about that Azomite, an A-Z of minerals? Green Sand? Roots soil has oyster shells and good stuff therein. Roots can make a nice base soil. seems an additive to push the ph upward isn't a bad idea, I've gotten nute lockout from too amended hot soil. If everything is too light on nutes by week 4 of flower, I top dress with more love. teas are a nice way to do this, just use all you prepare at the time.
 

buckaroo bonzai

Well-Known Member
Essentially a high draining medium built with typical guanos, meals, etc and amended with compost and worm castings will be taken over by the plant which governs the microbes. The plant tells the microbes what to bring in and when, and it rewards the microbes with food (root exudate).

My point is that maybe not to worry so much about NPK calcs. That's not part of the vocabulary of a living soil farmer.


yes but building your medium first and then nurturing the nematodes and other beneficial bacteria thru teas and other things---

'MY' point is everything you put into your container as far as amendments to feed the active live beneficial bacteria ihas an NPK value that can be manipulated--it is good to learn and understand this equation-

this guy the rev that wrote true living organics used to come around to a place I worked...and I have gotten into mucho conversation in regards to specific NPK and which organic forms provide which amount of NPK when it comes to container gardens and NpK numbers specifically relating to plant growth cycle etc..

plus if you research best NPK ratios for herb many posts talking about 10-5-5 or 20-10-10 or 30-20-20 or even buying or mixing products with an even NPK for plants whole cycle

it is an annual and reacts the same as any other annual

these are all achieved by mixing super soil mixes or similar

even if as you say the NPK is not in a TLO vocabulary---it is still considered when building your medium--if you do it mindfully and conciously

that being said I play with the numbers available and keep learning all the time different results from building different mix--

the real definition of TLO IMO is when the symbiosis between the plant and the medium is achieved and the closed Eco system you creat becomes a miniature type of perma culture--everything working together for the whole..it can be called many things...bio-dynamic..TLO...micro permaculture....do you piss on your plants and do you know the NPK value in that or the permaculture side? uric acid can be used by the plant--veganomics is what a lot of pholks are experimenting and learning with now---if you ate meat yet grew your herb veganomically(no animal products all plant based) and pissed on your plants using perma culture designs would your herb be vegonomically grown? many variables involved with growing herb organically as far as what you put in the containers--and what NPK value you will achieve ----if you use compost with meat scraps it is not considered organic--and meat takes along time to break down and contaminates the compost

breaking down the natural food becomes an essential part of the plants ability to uptake what it needs when it needs it---and as much as it wants or can handle----this is the job of the microbes---mycillium will take the food to the plant every time instead of the plant searching for the food--live working microbes there is a great book on the benefits of mycillium by Paul stamos....mycillium rising...mushrooms and fungus amoung us
l
its like yogurt cultures or making sour dough cultures--creating breeding thriving growing colonies of live beneficial bacteria--that live off of breaking down the nutrients in the soil and feeding it to the plants--how much nutrients do you provide in the soil??(NPK) and at what quantity? how do you quantify it? size of container plant etc

sounds complicated but not---micro/macro
molasses is the favorite catalyst

do you or have ever done cover crop to enrich your soil?

most senior growers are aware of the benefits of true organically grown herb....taste ...high(especially to me) smell quality etc
it commands more value

when that rev guy was touting the benefits of TLO he was really just trying to get people to understand the benefits on the herb by using all organic --which comes from your NPK rich medium you build in your container

you can achieve good results by using nothing but just water and some dirt--most any dirt...you will still get somthing

it still boils down to the NPK you have built into your medium---IMO and experience...there are number values that you deal with
i have always felt that allowing my containers to have the optimal and high NPK values gives me a better run and bigger results with smaller effort

here is a nice little thread about what you are talking about--I guess the learning curve here is still pretty vertical but it is leveling
thanks to sub cool and his super soil mix recipe that so many are trying.....His mix is close to a 15-10-10

http://forum.grasscity.com/organic-growing/563579-true-living-organic-soil-la-rolanterroy.html
that was a couple years ago-

i am not sure but I get the impression that dirtbagger pholks here do not understand the numbers thing yet--or the advantages of good NPK rich soil medium--so many using bottled nutes.....I would think hydro growers could understand a lot of the numbers game

just thought I might attract some mixers here that share NPK recipes-

and here is somewhere you can find skunk magazines latest effort--the rev should be there---along with the rest of the TLO tribe....
highly recommended if you can make it---some of the best TLO grown herb in the US IMO ---

I guess you can close this thread-


http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Emerald-Cup/132354766809406v

and sorry brevity is not one of my attributes-

peace
 

abe supercro

Well-Known Member
I took a soil science class once and the professor said the numbers don't mean shit. It only says simply what ratios of nitrogen-phosphorous-potassium are. throwing around numbers repeatedly sounds like bullshit. I'm sure more enlightened dirt-persons will chime in at some point if we are patient enough to give it time and an open-mind. Jedi you sound like a great guy, but you tend to come off as a lil pretentious at times, just my neophyte opinion. do we plant the seed, or do we harvest it first?
 
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