which provides a more stable breeding female, F1, F2, BX1 or BX2?

sine143

sine143

Well-Known Member
now, I know most of subs plants are f1 hybrids created by f1 parents (Pandoras box, Jacks cleaner 2, Apollo 12 bx, and others omitted of course). I'm just trying to plan out a pollen chucking schedule for my current setup. ultimatly, I'm trying to to decipher which of the above methods is going to produce the least variation, and the most predictabality. I'm pretty sure I can say a bx2 is probably the most stable what to get something in seed form, also the most time consuming (3 male selections yikes). I know f2s basically have as much variation if not more variation the f1 classification, but how much more stable is a bx1 (p75) than an F1?

I've got a decent group of variated females (10 different females, 8 dif strains, 2 aos female). I've got one male aos sitting around, he was a very late shower (females showed on day 4 of forced sex, he showed on day 9). I plan on making f1s with my favorite 4-5 out of the 10 females, and I will probably attempt to bx quite a few of them back to the original mothers. I'll also be making some AoS F2s, and I'll probably attempt to give the male BX an attempt as well back to the male aos, cause I feel that will give me the best idea of my males breeding qualities (which are probably nill, but who knows). Out of the whole bunch, theres a skunk #1 that has most ridiculous smell (actually very similar to what I envisioned the BCS pheno of AOS smelling like, perhaps more "blue" than "black cherry") as well as a WWxChronic that has the nicest bud structure I've ever worked with. I'm going to attempt in my pollen chucking to hold on to each of those 2 traits as I work my way down the rabbit hole over the next year. would love any input you guys have. I also have a 5 pack of space bomb and qush to pop, to look for prize females and any lucky male.
 
sine143

sine143

Well-Known Member
if you say so. I'm not really asking for opinions on my personal situation, I just included my own details to give some backgrounds for the questions.
 
Endur0xX

Endur0xX

Well-Known Member
brimck325 said:
now this, is gonna be funny...peace
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I am not sure what you mean by your comments but I assume it's negative ...

I am starting a little breeding project of my own and I am a total n00b, there is obviously a lot more to it than I thought and thanks for your question sine143 because I need some people to put cannabis breeding into simple words so that a 5 years old kid could understand how it all works... until then I have a lot of questions as well and it's nice when people that have the time to answer them do so instead of making fun of the questions in the first place.
 
Budologist420

Budologist420

Well-Known Member
I think the thing you have to realize first is what your main goal in this breeding/pollen chucking experiment is, whether it is to lock down the smell of that Skunk #1 or with the AOS's if you are trying to "cube" the genes until you have mostly Black Cherry Soda dominant plants or whatever it is, you have to first know exactly what you are trying to accomplish otherwise your just chucking pollen for the sake of making seeds.

What are you trying to create?
 
Budologist420

Budologist420

Well-Known Member
Endur0xX said:
I am not sure what you mean by your comments but I assume it's negative ...

I am starting a little breeding project of my own and I am a total n00b, there is obviously a lot more to it than I thought and thanks for your question sine143 because I need some people to put cannabis breeding into simple words so that a 5 years old kid could understand how it all works... until then I have a lot of questions as well and it's nice when people that have the time to answer them do so instead of making fun of the questions in the first place.
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http://www.greenmanspage.com/guides/botany.html#Chapter 3 - Genetics and Breeding of Cannabis
 
sine143

sine143

Well-Known Member
I dont really intend to produce a BCS. I have an aos male, I assume he's run of the mill. If he sticks around long enough, I'll undoubtably bx back to him after making some sort of selection from the variety of F1s I'll have produced at that point. I mentioned the skunk as I have a hunch feeling that the AOS male will pair up well with it, as it is a somewhat longer flowering straing (at 7 weeks now, clearly has 2 or more weeks of addittional flower time in comparison to the fast flowering varietys, which will come down no later than day 60), and *hopefully* the male influence will help shorten that in some phenos post cross.

other than the AOS, all of the seed selection was done by a mate of mind who was basically making his first seed purchase (read, all fems, almost half derived from Blueberry genetics, not a very cohesive list, and just a single seed of each strain). since I introduced some reg seeds and happened upon a male, we're gonna have some fun. there are a few keepers in that batch of 10, and we have clones of everything so no issues there, but we'd like to see what lays on the other side of the grassy knoll so to speak genetically. I will probably only make male selections from 2-3 of the F1 crosses, for backcrossing to motherplant, as they mothers were quite good, and I think there is more genetically. The rest of the F1s will be measured and drawn. if anything phenomenal happens, we keep that pheno, maybe pop a few more beans as well, other than that, if its trash, its trash, no hard feelings.

Specific goals are somewhat unclear, but i have a lot of *general* goals I'd like to achieve. I have a seperate area for chucking pollen, so at the very least I'll get a good little clutch of seeds to mess with. Space is somewhat of an issue but plant count has been super high in the past with little to no issues, and things are much more dialed in now, so we have room for selection

Random question: F1s that show the most vigor, or hybrid vigor, can I peg those for 50/50, or close to phenos?
 
bigskymtnguy

bigskymtnguy

Well-Known Member
I'll confess to being a fellow "pollen chucker" as well. My basic philosophy is that "even a blind pig finds a truffle once and awhile." I revel in the hybrid vigor of F1 crosses, and simply hope to someday discove a "holy grail" plant that can be cloned and be spread among friends. Many of my friends are clone only medical patients with no interest in doing anything other than plugging in to a collection of reliable clones. Yes, it is important to have goals in your breeding program, but a multi-generational experiment to produce a stabilized strain with defined characteristics is way beyond me. I've considered backcrossing several times to get close to the desirable strain, but there are "so many good strains, so little time."

Sine143, my only advice to you is keep "chucking" and learning as you go. I admire your curiosity, willingness to ask questions and develop your stable of plants!
 
Endur0xX

Endur0xX

Well-Known Member
bigskymtnguy said:
I'll confess to being a fellow "pollen chucker" as well. My basic philosophy is that "even a blind pig finds a truffle once and awhile." I revel in the hybrid vigor of F1 crosses, and simply hope to someday discove a "holy grail" plant that can be cloned and be spread among friends. Many of my friends are clone only medical patients with no interest in doing anything other than plugging in to a collection of reliable clones. Yes, it is important to have goals in your breeding program, but a multi-generational experiment to produce a stabilized strain with defined characteristics is way beyond me. I've considered backcrossing several times to get close to the desirable strain, but there are "so many good strains, so little time."

Sine143, my only advice to you is keep "chucking" and learning as you go. I admire your curiosity, willingness to ask questions and develop your stable of plants!
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OK great I am not the only one!! I will be a pollen chucker until ... until I know what I am doing!!! I agree with you and for me right now breeding is like playing the lottery but with much better odds!! I think that since I am starting with good genetics, I will most likely endup with decent seeds in hope of finding a gem. My first goal is to get a bunch of potentially good seeds, I am breeding plants that I have never grown before so it's all for fun for now.

Thank you very much for the link bud420, that is what I needed!! Now I just gotta read it all, then again, and again.
 
Grojak

Grojak

Well-Known Member
Just pollenate a whole bunch of shit and market it with fancy names... polyhybrid breeders rock!!
 
OGEvilgenius

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
A Bx is going to be better. Stable lines are best for breeding. Sometimes polyhybrids are somewhat stable for 1 or 2 traits that are desirable. But IBL's generally speaking will give you the most predictable outcomes with the least problems and nice heterosis (vigor - an expression of dominant quality traits for that line).
 
Grojak

Grojak

Well-Known Member
I would highly suggest not breeding with TGA gear plain and simple. Follow the rule Good in Good out, if you breed with shit you'll get shit. AoS throws nanners like mad (my black cherry soda clone only throws em if given any stress) I've seen multiple seed runs fail. Sure some don't hermie, but why not start with something good, save yourself the work of trying to isolate the non hermie phenos.

Make your desired F1's pheno hunt through them for the traits you're looking for (both male and female), if you find that keeper male toss in you best F1 females as well as your original mom, do the BX and F2 in same run.... I would continue this with your F3 generation, while yes it would still be a BX1 when you hit the F3 to the original mom but you're going to get different expressions with each F generation you hit back to the original mom.... than you can hunt through your multiple BX1 beans to find the male you want to use to create your BX 2's ..... hope you have an extra 2 or 4k of lights to dedicate just to breeding :)
 
OGEvilgenius

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
hyroot said:
ibl's are less stable and can't handle much stress if any.
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IBL's are much more stable I think is what you meant to say. And whatever stress they can handle will vary depending on the line, but my Herijuana IBL had a fucking fan (a big one) dropped on top of it and it recovered just fine with no issues at all. It is difficult to clone and you get inbreeding depression as a result, but an IBL done right will not see too many negative traits express themselves.
 
skunkd0c

skunkd0c

Well-Known Member
OGEvilgenius said:
IBL's are much more stable I think is what you meant to say. And whatever stress they can handle will vary depending on the line, but my Herijuana IBL had a fucking fan (a big one) dropped on top of it and it recovered just fine with no issues at all. It is difficult to clone and you get inbreeding depression as a result, but an IBL done right will not see too many negative traits express themselves.
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yeh i was thinking he was either trolling/ being sarcastic because i know he is not that stupid

quite a few folk start with something like deep chunk (IBL)

peace
 
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