So who here is growing in true organic living soil?

[Rrog]

Sounds great! And let's keep in mind that compost has fulvic and humic acid already!

 

[QuentinQuark]

Many thanks to NickNasty for referring me to this thread.

Nice to connect with people who know about biochar (charcoal used as a soil amendment) and brix. Both topics I have done my own informal research on, although I haven't had a chance to mess with either of them in a grow - yet.

So I have one nagging question for you folks: do you use a starter culture to get your soil cooking? I mean once you've mixed in the ferts to the base, and wet it, it's gotta cook for a month or so... where do the bacteria come from for this?

 

[Rrog]

Hi Quentin. Thanks for stopping by. I use some Espoma initially, but I use a good amount of active soil. By that I mean there's a companion plant growing in the pail. I use clover. Injects N into the soil for me and keeps the fungi and bacteria active, tending to clover roots. So I take some of that "local soil" because it's really bioactive, and that will speed the soil along. That's what I do, anyway. Oh, and when I initially water, I use some home made lactoB (EM). Lacto B is a great initial digester and will get to work colonizing and removing bad bacteria, etc.

 

[gladstoned]

Read the first 50 pages or so of, True Living Organics. I will rifle through it, then go through a second time and take some notes. I will have Belle stop at Mares Z Dotes and grab some soil and get my ass to mixing.

 

[Rrog]

Amongst soil scientists, Teaming With Microbes is a seriously good read. It's an easy read, and written for people like us, not written for scientists. I recommend this book a lot for a real grip on the critical role of microbes in soil. I have not read True Living Organics, and hope it's not promoting folk lore vs. hard data that is available.

 

[gladstoned]

I have Teaming with Microbes. Haven't read it, honestly I thought it would be a little too technical for me, but I will give er a whirl next.
True Living Organics is good. It is written by The Rev, who writes for Skunk Magazine. Skunk magazine is for organic soil growing. The book
was just released a few weeks ago. Cheap as fuck too, Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/True-Living-Organics-All-Natural-Marijuana/dp/1931160961/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1353417240&sr=1-1&keywords=true+living+organics

Do you, or have you read Skunk Magazine?

 

[Rrog]

I don't read Skunk Magazine, personally. Sounds very cool, though. OK, I downloaded the book and read through it. I think it's a great read, great pics, although I think Rev is a little stuck from old hydro days. I was really surprised to see so many bottles and bags. That doesn't diminish a thing, just an observation. I think anyone should have a crack at Teaming With Microbes, as it gives a really good understanding of what soil is, and how the microbes interact. To me, a person should have a good insight into the microbial world if they are following an organic routine.

 

[QuentinQuark]

Ok, so it sounds like I don't really NEED an innoculant, it'll just pick things out of the air and from the EWC etc.

Another question - although I haven't actually seen it explicitly mentioned anywhere, I suspect charcoal/biochar would be a great alternative to perlite. Seems to have similar aeration properties. Plus it's got all that surface area that our microbes love so much, so it might actually have perlite beat!

So the old recipe 1/3 peat, 1/3 perlite, 1/3 compost becomes 1/3 coco coir (superior to peat), 1/3 biochar (superior to perlite), 1/3 compost. Thoughts?

 

[Rrog]

Quentin, not sure on that. The microbes will look to convert that last bit of carbon, whereas Perlite is inert microbically. I would think the initial aeration qualities of char would diminish over time as the char is converted. Just a quick armchair opinion. Sad that a lot of EWC is sprayed so as to kill microbes. I'm getting a worm bin next year

 

[gladstoned]

I don't read Skunk Magazine, personally. Sounds very cool, though. OK, I downloaded the book and read through it. I think it's a great read, great pics, although I think Rev is a little stuck from old hydro days. I was really surprised to see so many bottles and bags. That doesn't diminish a thing, just an observation. I think anyone should have a crack at Teaming With Microbes, as it gives a really good understanding of what soil is, and how the microbes interact. To me, a person should have a good insight into the microbial world if they are following an organic routine.

roflmao. Take it you are a good reader. I am ok. I read through something at the beginning of Teaming with Microbes that made me think it would be better as a second book to read. lol. You are the second person that has said it is a fairly easy read, so I do not think I'll have any trouble with it. I have a good half dozen books to go through. I need to put aside an hour or two a day to read. I try to do a little bible reading in the am, down in my growroom. That doesn't really cut it.
I want to mix some soil and do a good half dozen runs. I also just started using Advance Nutrients Grand Masterbater line as well. Watching the two should be a lot of fun. I do not expect bad results from either. I am not partial to either, I am partial to results, that's why I am putting forth the effort and the cash.

 

[Rrog]

I read through it, specifically looking for the tone of the book and how true to organics he was. Given that I'm familiar with the material I was only skimming through the book. You have time to let the soil cook? Or maybe you have some cooking already.

 

[gladstoned]

No, I have time to let it cook. I have plenty of time, plenty of shit.
I didn't want to run straight super soil. I wanted to add the oyster shells and kelp also,
so I decided I would wait till I read the books and knew more about what was actually happening with the soil.
Your thread has made this as good a time as any. The time for the soil to cook is no trouble,
the time to stop moving around and sit still long enough to read, plus getting shit off my mind so I can focus
is where my struggles are. lol.

 

[Rrog]

I hear you Glad. If I can be of any help, I'd really be happy to. Consider Crab shell and char. Crab shell starts the process of killing bad larvae and char is luxury Townhome accommodations for the microbes

 

[gladstoned]

OK. I will run outside and write down list of what I have. Could you then make list of what I don't? I will call Mares Z Dotes and see what kind of soils they have.
Then I will take your word for it, mix it and get it cooking. While it cooks I will read both books twice, before Christmas. Can you help with good recipe?

 

[gladstoned]

Crab Shell 4lbs. 2 - 3 - 0 - Neptune's Harvest
Kelp Meal 4 lbs 1 - 0 2 -Neptune's Harvest
Fish Bone Meal 6lbs 3 - 16 - 0 -Down to Earth
Blood Meal 5 lbs 12 - 0 - 0 -Down to Earth
Bud Blood 3@1.4 oz 0- 39 -25 -Advanced Nutrients (Small packs, expensive)
Volcano bat shit 5 lbs. 0 - 8 - 1 -Earth Juice
Humic Acid
Azomite (trace minerals)
Dolomitic Lime
Epsom salt
Spinosad - Captain Jacks Deadbug
Morgan's Composting Worm Castings (Local and highly recommended )

don't need to use everything, that's just what I have.
will make a soil call.

 

[Rrog]

Of course! Sounds great. You make a list of what you have and I'll have a look-see EDIT, I see your list. Great stuff. Do you have any soil that you've used previously hanging around? Anything with a plant growing in it currently? Roots is a good base soil. Would you be starting plants in the lightly amended base soil, then transplanting after three weeks into the bigger containers?

 

[gladstoned]

I have plants going in ocean forest and pro-mix currently. There isn't a good source of Roots Organics up here.
I just got off the phone with Mares Z Dotes. I am looking at Ocean Forest or Sunshine #4.
I have heard lots of good things about the Sunshine #4, but I do not know shit.
Ocean Forest or Sunshine #4?
I have terrible dirt in my garden, I am bumping all my used dirt in it until spring then tilling it all up.

 

[Rrog]

This is based on your current list of amendments. You’ll be making a cooler soil for starting the plants in, and a hotter soil to transplant into. Standard kinda deal. The local soil with something growing in it is good for local indigenous microbes that are active. Do you have any compost?

Base Soil: Start out with a quality bag soil.
Add 1 1/2 cups crab shell per bag (bagged soil is 1.5 cuft per bag, I’m assuming)
1 1/2 cups char if you have it.
2 cups Worm Castings for the microbes, assuming Morgan hasn’t added a biocide to them.
2 cups local active soil
Do you have any BTI Dunks?
Can you follow that recipe I posted and make some LactoB?

Hot Soil: Take your bagged soil, and to each bag add same as above PLUS:
10 lbs Worm castings
2 cups local active soil
0.6 pounds Bloodmeal
0.6 pounds Fish Bone Meal
1 1/2 Tablespoons Dolomite
1/2 pound bat guano
3/4 cup Azomite
1 tsp Humic Acid
3/4 cup Kelp flakes
1/3 cup Epsom Salts

 

[gladstoned]

roflmao. Take it you are a good reader. I am ok. I read through something at the beginning of Teaming with Microbes that made me think it would be better as a second book to read. lol. You are the second person that has said it is a fairly easy read, so I do not think I'll have any trouble with it. I have a good half dozen books to go through. I need to put aside an hour or two a day to read. I try to do a little bible reading in the am, down in my growroom. That doesn't really cut it.
I want to mix some soil and do a good half dozen runs. I also just started using Advance Nutrients Grand Masterbater line as well. Watching the two should be a lot of fun. I do not expect bad results from either. I am not partial to either, I am partial to results, that's why I am putting forth the effort and the cash.

Iphone just told me FBI is raiding the Detroit public library. WTF eh. Maybe books are bad?

 

[Rrog]

I'm sorry that I can't seem to format that list so it is more readable. Looks like a big pile of steaming I'd try the Sunshine #4