Union extortion now illegal in Michigan

[UncleBuck]

yay! let's root for our fellow workers to be paid less and have less job security! how could that ever backfire?

YAY!

all this idiocy reminds me of a snowman complaining that it's too cold at 32 degrees. but i guess some people will believe whatever the koch brothers tell them to.

these people are not that bright.

 

[UncleBuck]

Why are unions necessary up north but not in the south? I understood the purpose of the unions back in the day...

yeah, corporations would never exploit anyone anymore.

wise, sage people like desert dude understand this

 

[canndo]

Incoming storm of despotism? You may be on to something, really (no sarcasm). I still think the 3rd world workers need to embrace collective bargaining.

Most of these workers have no cover from their government and I don't know if their country's laws provide for unionizing. I think it may be a good idea to establish unions but recall how difficult it was for our initial efforts to unionize. Recall the death and discomfort involved for the pioneers of unions in this country. Imagine also, our having to go through all that again if unions in this country are put out of business by being starved of funds.

Storm of despotism? certainly. We see that business will never embrace the proper treatment of its workers because it goes against the grain of profit. Libertarians will argue that in the long term it is not so, that it is in the company's best interest to treat it's workers fairly. In reality this is so, but in funtionaly, in the short term, workers will be placed in dangerous environments, they will be paid the least possible, worked as long as allowed and they will be systematicaly abused, this is the nature of the culture surrounding free enterprise. The only way to make individuals anywhere equal to the power of companies is for the workers to form negotiation collectives.

Times have changed in America, we have fewer non-skilled jobs and we manufacture less but higher levels of skill are no protection. I recall a situation with Allstate and their adjusters where they were, because they were salary employees, forced to work long hours and their pay was reduced.

In short, look at a company's ledger. Even when the company claims that employees are their biggest asset, place everything having to do with employees on the other side, employees are notated as liabilities and not assets.

 

[abandonconflict]

Puts me in mind of a group of people in New Orleans pre Katrina. "I don't know, seems like these levees don't serve much of a purpose anymore - thhey are poorly maintained and we havn't needed them for many years, why not just let them go?"

Yeah, you're right, I can't support legislation that prohibits or even discourages collective bargaining of workers. I was just saying it has little use currently compared to historically but that could change.

 

[canndo]

If compulsory membership is required for unions to exist, then they shouldn't.

"Reproductive rights"... You have every right to reproduce in this country. You might as well say what you mean.

why? why should a company be able to enforce certain things upon their employees yet a union not? As I said, the law states that workers no longer have to pay dues. If they do not, then the union will no longer exist, when the union no longer exists then sooner or later, probably sooner, that which the union enforces upon the company no longer is applicable.

I used the term reproductive rights to denote more than "abortion rights" as the term includes woman's ability to obtain and use birth control and be free from cohersive practices like invasive ultrasound.

 

[ChesusRice]

why? why should a company be able to enforce certain things upon their employees yet a union not? As I said, the law states that workers no longer have to pay dues. If they do not, then the union will no longer exist, when the union no longer exists then sooner or later, probably sooner, that which the union enforces upon the company no longer is applicable.

I used the term reproductive rights to denote more than "abortion rights" as the term includes woman's ability to obtain and use birth control and be free from cohersive practices like invasive ultrasound.

And by law the Union still has to defend and represent those non dues paying employees. Employees who work at union shops can even sue the Union if the union doesnt represent them even if they are not members

 

[ASMALLVOICE]

I understand that unions have brought alot of good to the table since thier inception. I was a union electrician for quite a few years, but the longer I was in it, the worse it became. When work got thin, they wanted me to travel. I was in the process of raising 2 children, and that was no option. I hung up my card years ago.

My friends that stayed in, are now unemployed and thier benefits are almost gone and the dues are not accomplishing what they once had. I now have the mindset of, I will work when I want, where I want and need no orginization to hold me in contempt for doing so, piss on striking and no income. If they werent such greedy assholes at the hall, I might reconsider, but it will not be many more years and the unions will piss themselves out of existence, at least the IBEW will anyway....jmo

Peace

Asmallvoice

 

[desert dude]

And by law the Union still has to defend and represent those non dues paying employees. Employees who work at union shops can even sue the Union if the union doesnt represent them even if they are not members

I am going to require a link on this one. I certainly do not believe it.

And by the way, Reason magazine is absolutely awesome. I highly recommend it to anybody not utterly mired in the Dem/Rep duopoly.

 

[cannabineer]

I find it rather revealing of American culture that slavery has such fine parameters in American vernacular.

Of what? cn

 

[ChesusRice]

I am going to require a link on this one. I certainly do not believe it.

And by the way, Reason magazine is absolutely awesome. I highly recommend it to anybody not utterly mired in the Dem/Rep duopoly.

Is a union required to represent all employees covered by a contract (nonmembers as well as members)?
Yes. Under federal labor law, unions have the duty to fairly represent all workers covered by a contract. That means nonmembers who pay no share as well as members get the same wages, hours and working conditions established by the contract. Unions must bargain for everyone and enforce the contract terms for everyone in a fair, honest, nondiscriminatory manner. Unions cannot refuse to pay the costs of arbitrating a grievance simply because it involves a nonmember. A union that violates this duty of fair representation can be sued. This duty of fair representation applies whether or not the state has a “right to work” law.

http://weareindiana.us/menu1

 

[ChesusRice]

In states where the law exists, "right-to-work" makes it illegal for workers and employers to negotiate a contract requiring everyone who benefits from a union contract to pay their fair share of the costs of administering it. Right-to-work has nothing to do with people being forced to be union members.
Federal law already guarantees that no one can be forced to be a member of a union, or to pay any amount of dues or fees to a political or social cause they don't support. What right-to-work laws do is allow some workers to receive a free ride, getting the advantages of a union contract -- such as higher wages and benefits and protection against arbitrary discipline -- without paying any fee associated with negotiating on these matters.
That's because the union must represent all workers with the same due diligence regardless of whether they join the union or pay it dues or other fees and a union contract must cover all workers, again regardless of their membership in or financial support for the union. In states without right-to-work laws, workers covered by a union contract can refuse union membership and pay a fee covering only the costs of workplace bargaining rather than the full cost of dues. [Center for American Progress Action Fund, 2/2/12]

http://mediamatters.org/research/2012/12/11/right-wing-media-are-wrong-about-worker-contrib/191802

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

sometimes i think dea dude is a rick boy playing american . . . who has never worked a day i his life . . . . . .just some of the time some of the shit he says like that of unions leads me to think he has ever had a job, ever!




and i apologize dea dude if this is wrong, but i just don't trust someone who doesn't smoke pot on a POT advocacy website

 

[ChesusRice]

Why dont republicans just come out and say they are trying everything they can to defund, dismiss and demonize the middle class?

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

becuase deep down inside they are not . . in there heads they are just playing the game of economy and politcs to make as much as possible . . they assume the middle class is playing to . . vs gasping for air which is what is really happenign
[video=youtube_share;YkADj0TPrJA]http://youtu.be/YkADj0TPrJA[/video]

 

[UncleBuck]

sometimes i think dea dude is a rick boy playing american . . . who has never worked a day i his life . . . . . .just some of the time some of the shit he says like that of unions leads me to think he has ever had a job, ever!




and i apologize dea dude if this is wrong, but i just don't trust someone who doesn't smoke pot on a POT advocacy website

and when he gets real upset and the steam comes out of his ears he starts making threats about "oh, hope you don't get caught with this oddly specific federal charge".

he consistently ignores reality when it doesn't fit his preconceived, favored narrative as well.

generally an all around shitty guy. would not want to have a beer with someone like him.

 

[abandonconflict]

Of what? cn

Of the coercive nature of the system and the extent to which wage slavery is accepted as a part of life.

Here is a question, would you rather work or shop? Think about your answer and the answers most people would give to this and why it indicates a problem in society. You might be one of the people who enjoys their work but I suspect most would answer shop.

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

got to understand UB that he doesnt support your world view life view . . . . . its istn as much as he is inherently bad or evil or a jerk , but that he lacks the ability to understand the causality of what empathy is vs apathy of his soul, which in reality perfection is not possible as the pinnacle of anything is as capricious as the weather
[video=youtube;eDov1acVZ-Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDov1acVZ-Y[/video]

 

[cannabineer]

Of the coercive nature of the system and the extent to which wage slavery is accepted as a part of life.

Here is a question, would you rather work or shop? Think about your answer and the answers most people would give to this and why it indicates a problem in society. You might be one of the people who enjoys their work but I suspect most would answer shop.

I otoh think the question is closer to "would I rather eat or poop?" The difference, I admit, is that where money is involved ... the eater and pooper can be different people. But were that not the case, i would argue that only the combo is healthy. I like to shop as much as my work (when i did work) would permit. I have a somewhat unAmerican horror of spending beyond my means.

I will admit your answer was not what I expected. I was thinking it would have to do more with this nation's history with slavery. Thanks for surprising me. cn

 

[desert dude]

sometimes i think dea dude is a rick boy playing american . . . who has never worked a day i his life . . . . . .just some of the time some of the shit he says like that of unions leads me to think he has ever had a job, ever!




and i apologize dea dude if this is wrong, but i just don't trust someone who doesn't smoke pot on a POT advocacy website

Hey, no problem, at least you have the decency to apologize in advance. Your mistrust is somewhat understandable, misplaced though it is.

As far as holding a job goes, I have worked in one way or another since about 1969, although the first few years were kind of sporadic. I have never been in a union, though. I am not anti-union. I am perfectly content for unions to organize and to sell their services. I do oppose public sector unions. I don't know what a "rick boy" is.

 

[cannabineer]

"rich", I'm guessing.