Erythromycin for brown slime cure

legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
SO it seems that the aquarium folks can quickly kill the cyano bacteria that cause the brown slime by disolving eryrthromycin in their water. Has anyone ever given this a go? I did a little research and it does not significantly effect nitrogen uptake like some antibiotics do. I am just tired of the mess that making EWC creates.

Thoughts?
 
Enkidu

Enkidu

Member
I've certainly seen cases of people using erythromycin with success. Others not so much. same with every other method i guess. I just went out yesterday and picked up some to try for myself. I'd be interested if you've tried this for yourself yet or found any other significant information on the subject.

I found this in searching for info:
http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?p=1513

using Seachem Cuprisorb in a aquarium filter

This method wouldn't work with existing plants because your removing all the iron, nickel, zinc, cobalt, cadmium, manganese, copper, etc. but may be a way removing all remnants from infected equipment and systems or by enhancing a EWC tea inoculation. evidently when used in an aquarium some macroalgae in a refugium can live where the cyanobactiria or brown slime will not. once eradicated simply reintroducing iron made the macroalgae "spring back to life" with no signs of a return of the brown slime. This case was a saltwater aquarium so may not apply here.

I'll look more into it. But first i'm going to try using the antibiotic .
 
Enkidu

Enkidu

Member
I went ahead and tried an Erythromycin treatment.
Im on day 2 now with no signs of stress or negative effects for the plants.

I've got a 20 gallon res on a ebb&flow/dwc/aero/NFT hybrid setup. w/ UV sterilizer in the res.
Feeding with Dutchmaster Gold A&B - Liquid Light and Penetrator/saturator for foliar.

Alot of what I've read is prescribing a 2.5mg / Gal treatment of Erythromycin, however on the back of the box, and just as many articles on the subject they suggest, or "no less than" 200mg/10gal so 20mg/gal . Thats a pretty big difference.

This is the EM that I'm using
http://www.apifishcare.com/products/product.aspx?productid=58

Heres a good article stating 200mg/10gal is safe for plants
http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/controlling-cyanobacteria

I went with somewhere in the middle at 10mg / gal , however I think i may finish out the treatment with the 20mg/gal dose

another thing i should probably note is although i have been battling the slime for almost 9 months now with everything you can think of, including Heisenburgs EWC tea that for some of my older more developed plants worked great for. the younger groups just never got better, most died or i transferred to soilless. My last effort before i was to resort to EM was going to be a UV sterilizer in the res. Which i've currently got and has worked much better than i expected, however I still get a slight biofilm on my hoses in the res and my beautiful white bunches of roots are turning brown, not slime brown but pythium brown. I've removed the Chiller on the res and the water temps are getting upto around 80. Probably warmer in the Runs of PVC that house the roots. I've since add the chiller back into the mix on one group that I"m not using EM on and hopefully in the next day or two (waiting on a part) I will connect the chiller to the EM dosed group as well.

so what i wanted to mention is that I really don't have a terrible case of brown slime. I can tell its still there in the background trying to get a foothold but the UV sterilizer is keeping it down. The EM treatment is really just excessive and mostly just an experiment. I'll post again when i've finished the treatment.
 
haole420

haole420

Active Member
I wonder if it absorbs. Just in case, you might want to warn smokers that they should probably not partake if they are allergic to that particular class of antibiotics
 
legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
Great info Enkindu!

I was battling it with the EWC on my clones. It was just aweful!! I got a doctor friend get my a prescription for that antibiotic and then when I was ready to dose the system the plants bounced back so I am just relying on the EWC right now. It is messy stuff though and I don't like making it or having all the residual sludge in the rez so I am going to give the eurythromycin a shot on the next batch of clones.

Cheers!
 
blacksun

blacksun

New Member
I've used bennies (great white, ewc, ect) with good results in recirculating. One thing though, it didn't seem to combat algae that well for me. For the same benefits of gw but also taking care of the algae I just use h2o2 now...
 
legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
just as an FYI. h2o2 does NOT provide the same functions as GW and other myco treatments, doesn't even come close really. One is an oxidizer disenfectant, and the other is a colony of symbiotic fungus/bacteria.

Just wanted to put that out there as all the time people say "throw h2o2 in there" no matter what the real issue is.
 
Enkidu

Enkidu

Member
I've completed the 4 day treatment of EM (Erythromycin). Went with 20mg/gal as the more respectable sources seem to say "at a minimum of 200mg/10gal" . The good report is that it didn't seem to harm the plants even the slightest. I am a little dismayed though as it didn't seem to effect the biofilm i was getting either. Understanding of course that EM targets Gram + bacteria and should be expected that any gram negative bacteria may remain unscathed. Cyanobacteria is generally accepted as Gram negative but purportedly sensitive to EM anyway.

So I've still got biofilm on my air lines and various small patches in and on the roots. I'm not sure if this is alive in any way though . It could just be dead remnants. More time will tell. Also as I stated in an earlier post I'm also dealing with water temps in the 80's and tanning roots similar to early rot. I got the part in the mail i was waiting on and now have it chilled to 70 degrees. (note: looks like early rot but smells really good! like earthy apple humus or something, like you get from EWC Tea)

The group I did not use EM on and only added the chiller to is doing much better then the EM group with high water temps.

So far it looks like the UV sterilizer in the res with chilled water is sufficient. no EM required yet.

If anyone has some experience with using UV in the res, I'd be interested in your thoughts on what would happen if i brewed a sock of EWC as per Heisenberg Tea, and just place that sock in the res with the UV light in an attempt to colonized the roots. What effect that might have. I'm curious because the UV is only killing what passes through it and clearly it is not preventing a slight biofilm. So then a colonized sock could potentially exist in the same res.

There isn't presently any need for this yet but if the UV doesn't cut it, Ill again be out of ammo and in need of some new ideas.

Returning to the main topic: I'd definitely use EM with no worries. It might not win over your cyanobacterial problems but its not going to hurt your plants... If i were to do it again I might reduce or eliminate the nutrients during the treatment. mainly to avoid using phosphates as this is food for cyano, same with PH adjustments. I don't know though, 0 EC water at 7 ph isn't a great plan either but after 5 days i think the plants would recover, .. bacteria? not so much.
 
Enkidu

Enkidu

Member
legallyflying said:
Great info Enkindu!

I was battling it with the EWC on my clones. It was just aweful!! I got a doctor friend get my a prescription for that antibiotic and then when I was ready to dose the system the plants bounced back so I am just relying on the EWC right now. It is messy stuff though and I don't like making it or having all the residual sludge in the rez so I am going to give the eurythromycin a shot on the next batch of clones.

Cheers!
Click to expand...
I was having problems with my clones too, globs of white snot and brown slime in the res. I use a DIY aero cloner like an ezclone, but what consistently works best for me is just straight tap water.(all tap water is different. results may vary) I watched some youtuber illustrating, that often we make things too complicated. so with no special angled cut, no gels, no hormones no special water, no dialed in nutrient mix , nothing... cuts a clone with a flat cut and puts it in the tap water cloner.. .. 7 to 10 days later, 100% success.

This has been my experience as well... its not the quickest method, but as a baseline fail safe it works for me.

The tea had never worked for me on anything that didn't already have a bunch of roots to colonize. I'm thinking maybe put the Tea sock IN the res for the cloner or the res wherever they go after rooting.


Also about the prescription, if you need Erythromycin generally you can find it anywhere they sell fish. Like Pet Smart or what have you. Note sure of the difference but should work the same. Sometimes is called something different as well, can't remember any of the other names ATM. Mine was just called E.M. Erythromycin, so pretty easy.
 
legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
Yeah, it was really just a cost thing. You get like 8 doses for $20 at the per store and I got 50 doses for $7

I will say though that the tea definitely works, like fucking gangbusters. Those clones that were all slimed, then bleached then slimed again. Man they were looking grim! Like embarrassing. They were all deficient and curled leaves, they just didn't have any roots..like nothing coming out of the bottom.

So I mixed my 5 gallons of tea and doused the net pots from above. One week...meah. 9 days..ooh. I am starting to see something. 14 days...holly shit! In 3 years of hydro never seen such explosion out the bottom of the pots! Seriously, like freakish.

I'll post some pics. They have blasted off now! 60w sq ft and co2 and they are growing 3-4" a night!
 
blacksun

blacksun

New Member
legallyflying said:
just as an FYI. h2o2 does NOT provide the same functions as GW and other myco treatments, doesn't even come close really. One is an oxidizer disenfectant, and the other is a colony of symbiotic fungus/bacteria.

Just wanted to put that out there as all the time people say "throw h2o2 in there" no matter what the real issue is.
Click to expand...


What do bennies combat that h2o2 does not?

Your thread title mentioned brown slime.

h2o2 combats brown slime for me just fine.

/shrug
 
Enkidu

Enkidu

Member
H2O2 certainly works to combat the slime. The problem I have with it is It stresses out the plants, and the slime always comes back, often within 24 hours after. So your constantly nuking with H2O2 and the plants are not happy.

Tea on the other hand contains many things that plants just love. Increased absorption, hardiness, tolerance, resistance. and it targets the slime, gets rid of it and builds a protective barrier.

the question should be What does H2O2 combat that the bennies don't?
and the answer is the plants.

I still use H2O2 occasionally, but i like to find solutions that don't involve it, or have less collateral damage.
 
waterdawg

waterdawg

Well-Known Member
Ok Im confused as usaual. I am just learning hydro and on my second flood and drain. Are you guys talking about two different types of grows. I run a sterile res and use H2O2 29% as a preventitive measure and have not had a slime issue. But if I was running organics I would never use it as I would never use a tea in what I run now. Is a tea not organic with beneficial organisms? And my plants seem to be doing ok but am I stressing them using it? This is the first time I've heard that it stresses plants.
 
legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
When I say brown slime I am talking about the Cyanobacteria, not algae or other tank sludge. H2o2 will NOT kill Cyanobacteria. If you have something that h2o2 is curing, it isn't the brown slime Cyanobacteria. This is a point of confusion for some hydro folks. I have never heard of brown slime in a flood and drain system. It's a problem that happens in dwc or RDWC. I have Cyanobacteria in my water. H2o2 doesn't do dick and neither does zone. Brown slime does just fine in cold water, hot water, lots of air, no air, and even lives in the absence of light.

What will kill it is legions of other bacteria and fungus species that are in a beneficial tea. They simple attack it, much the same way that nematodes kill bug larve in the soil. Bacteria and fungi "feed" off of plant roots, the plants will actually produce more enzymes and carbs to feed them. The plant benefits in numerous ways but the primary way is increased absorption of nutrients through the increased surface area of the fungal hyphae and disease resistance. It's complicated as there are different bacteria that do different things. In my experience they can really help grow roots.

Waterdawg, organic nutes in hydro is generally a no no. Flood and drain would be the best place for them but since organic nutrients need to be broken down into a form that can be assimilated into the plant..broken down by organisms in the soil, running a sterile
System with organic nutrients doesn't make a hole lot of sense. Not to mention issues with PH swings.

Cheers
 
Enkidu

Enkidu

Member
waterdawg, your fine with what your doing, so long as the dose it right. I don't mean to say H2O2 is bad. There're a lot of benefits to be had with it. Like a preventative as in your case. I'm speaking more to the often prescribe action against a slime outbreak, where you would soak the roots in a heavy dose of Physan20 or H2O2 to remove and kill the slime. In this application especially /w h2O2 it can take a week or more for them to recover. and as legallyflying stated its rarely effective again cyanobacteria, and you'd see it come right back.

Cute Ferret, I miss mine. I don't miss the mess though. I think potty training a ferret is the only thing i hated more than cyanobacteria. :P
 
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