So I listened to people on RIU about flushing....And this happens..

[cues]

Dependant upon growing methods IMO. If you are in soil, you ain't going to flush in a few days. No point trying. If you are in hydro, you have the luxury of controlling nutes more precisely.
The argument between organics and 'chemicals' however, I call BS on. It's all the same base elements whether based on cow/bat poo or a bottle of whatever from the store. The main difference is in symbiotic bacteria and fungi such as Mycorrizae (the latest buzz-word for a group of fungi which we don't yet understand).
Which is just one reason why we all keep coming around to the same arguments. For some of us, flushing works, for others, it doesn't. Athough the largest variable appears to be between hydro (in it's various forms) and soil (and I include coco in this at it does tend to hold salts, (maybe i am wrong on this, but that's my opinion)), there are other variables.
However, I will now contradict myself and say that there are many symbiotic relationships in soil that we are as yet to understand. We have the basics above ground (companion planting to attract predators for aphids, etc) and below ground (nutrients, CEC, infliltration and drainage rates) in relation .
Compost teas are a good example and a possible (and probable) way forward.
The thing is, even though we can go to the moon, and can clean our own pee to drink it again, we still don't have a complete understanding of exactly how compost teas work. We just throw in the word Mycorrizae.
We don't know how these bacterial and fungal relationships affect the plant. I believe that is one of the reasons questions like this don't have one answer.
There are many others. VPD, Co2 levels, Plant variety, curing/drying times/temps/humidity levels.
Even just personal preference or smoking/cooking methods.

 

[mike91sr]

Hey chuck, i just grew a three and a half foot high basil plant in dwc. The thing tasted like crap. I flushed it with water for two straight weeks and then it was fine. Commercial food groweres amend the soil and really use mostly just water to feed with. Fertilizer costs money. Thats why everything tastes like water in the grocery store, but tastes good from your garden.

I grow basil in both soil and soilless media, and have never come across bad tasting basil. I use chemical ferts in my soilless and used to do a supersoil mix but now just use chem ferts in soil too. They're also perpetual harvest plants without a harvest/ripe season, so I dont understand how you would "flush" them and keep them producing unless you're constantly correcting toxicities.

Also, talk to a corn farmer (the single most produced crop in our nation, so probably a better example of a commercial crop than a single basil plant) and tell them to stop using chemical ferts or to start flushing. They'll laugh at you.

 

[TrynaGroSumShyt]

yea thats fuckin frosty. I happen to like veg pics for some reason, i just don't post them much .

 

[Ninjabowler]

I haven't "flushed" for years and my buds burn the whitest ash straight after drying. This works for me but will not work for everyone obviously. Do what works best for you, but the most important part is to get a nice slow dry for your buds!

God i wish everyone spoke on this discussion like this. Flush or dont, if it works for you its because of what you do leading up to that point, see in the quote where it says it wont work for everyone obviously......thats all you need to know.

 

[TrynaGroSumShyt]

Dependant upon growing methods IMO. If you are in soil, you ain't going to flush in a few days. No point trying. If you are in hydro, you have the luxury of controlling nutes more precisely.
The argument between organics and 'chemicals' however, I call BS on. It's all the same base elements whether based on cow/bat poo or a bottle of whatever from the store. The main difference is in symbiotic bacteria and fungi such as Mycorrizae (the latest buzz-word for a group of fungi which we don't yet understand).
Which is just one reason why we all keep coming around to the same arguments. For some of us, flushing works, for others, it doesn't. Athough the largest variable appears to be between hydro (in it's various forms) and soil (and I include coco in this at it does tend to hold salts, (maybe i am wrong on this, but that's my opinion)), there are other variables.
However, I will now contradict myself and say that there are many symbiotic relationships in soil that we are as yet to understand. We have the basics above ground (companion planting to attract predators for aphids, etc) and below ground (nutrients, CEC, infliltration and drainage rates) in relation .
Compost teas are a good example and a possible (and probable) way forward.
The thing is, even though we can go to the moon, and can clean our own pee to drink it again, we still don't have a complete understanding of exactly how compost teas work. We just throw in the word Mycorrizae.
We don't know how these bacterial and fungal relationships affect the plant. I believe that is one of the reasons questions like this don't have one answer.
There are many others. VPD, Co2 levels, Plant variety, curing/drying times/temps/humidity levels.
Even just personal preference or smoking/cooking methods.

Its not organics vs chemicals. organic elements are chemicals themselves. Its about organic vs. synthetic or "man made" they are not derived from natural and organic ways. They contain salts which kill beneficial organisms like i posted earlier. stop spreading bs. We know how this shit affects plants lol.Wtf are you talking about.

 

[Sunbiz1]

yea thats fuckin frosty. I happen to like veg pics for some reason, i just don't post them much .

I have over 100 pics uploaded here, how about a vegging 10 footer in the middle of a forest preserve?...lol

 

[Ninjabowler]

I grow basil in both soil and soilless media, and have never come across bad tasting basil. I use chemical ferts in my soilless and used to do a supersoil mix but now just use chem ferts in soil too. They're also perpetual harvest plants without a harvest/ripe season, so I dont understand how you would "flush" them and keep them producing unless you're constantly correcting toxicities.

Also, talk to a corn farmer (the single most produced crop in our nation, so probably a better example of a commercial crop than a single basil plant) and tell them to stop using chemical ferts or to start flushing. They'll laugh at you.

I didnt say that the corn farmer doesnt use nutrients, i said they dont use them at the frequency that a marijuana farmer does.....right?

 

[mike91sr]

Still waiting on you to provide FACT that supports your stance. Dont really care about your personal experiences. Dont really care about mine either. Those "top authors" you refer to aren't even 1/100 as credible as the peer-reviewed information I'm talking about.

If you don't understand basic plant botany, how are you gonna continue to sit there and argue with the information qualitatively PROVEN in a lab by someone who DOES know?

 

[althor]

If you have grown your plants properly up to the last week and flush, you are going to have plenty of food left in the leaves. The plants arent going to starve, its not going to hurt it at all. I am not saying it will most certainly help, I dont know, but I know you arent hurting anything if you have healthy plants when you flush.

 

[Ninjabowler]

I grow basil in both soil and soilless media, and have never come across bad tasting basil. I use chemical ferts in my soilless and used to do a supersoil mix but now just use chem ferts in soil too. They're also perpetual harvest plants without a harvest/ripe season, so I dont understand how you would "flush" them and keep them producing unless you're constantly correcting toxicities.

Also, talk to a corn farmer (the single most produced crop in our nation, so probably a better example of a commercial crop than a single basil plant) and tell them to stop using chemical ferts or to start flushing. They'll laugh at you.

Heres the plant and the pesto. I pushed it to 900 ppm. It was a fun experiment but tasted like poop. Didnt when i flushed it. My expirience. Take it or leave it, i dont care

 

[Ninjabowler]

Still waiting on you to provide FACT that supports your stance. Dont really care about your personal experiences. Dont really care about mine either. Those "top authors" you refer to aren't even 1/100 as credible as the peer-reviewed information I'm talking about.

If you don't understand basic plant botany, how are you gonna continue to sit there and argue with the information qualitatively PROVEN in a lab by someone who DOES know?

Well if i dont understand your socalled "basic plant botany" and its proven in all these labs, then post it. My arguement is with the original poster. He/she listened to some person on the internet that claimed that flushing is for turds and it wrecked their harvest. Your that guy who says" botany " a couple times in a post and cant back it up with facts and/or wont post the exact method they use in stoner terms for people like the person with the spoiled crop. Your on a thread to warn people from listening to people like you lol...just sayin.

 

[blacksun]

The persons method was working fine before they changed it to non flush. Does that make sence?

Yeah, but how can you possibly say that's the only thing that changed?

You sat there the whole time both runs?

No.

So how could you possibly know?



Hell, he himself may not have even noticed something he did slightly differently between the two runs.

 

[Ninjabowler]

Yeah, but how can you possibly say that's the only thing that changed?

You sat there the whole time both runs?

No.

So how could you possibly know?



Hell, he himself may not have even noticed something he did slightly differently between the two runs.

your 100% correct in your scientific method analisis, but the one thing he/she did intentionally change was the flush. Dont mean to sound rude but..well i just wont say anything

 

[puffdatchronic]

Once upon a time ,puffdatchronic decided to grow some cannabis.He was tired of paying street prices for inferior weed.So he bought some lights ,some soil and nutrients,some ph equipment and then ordered some cannabis seeds on the interwebs.

It occured to him that he may not know anything about growing cannabis ,so he set about reading lots of articles on the internet ,read forums and watch videos.Eventually puff felt he was ready to grow some dope.He had read all about the techniques growers use to grow healthy crops of dank buds.So he took the plunge and sure enough the reading was worthwhile ,he grew crop after crop of healthy potent cannabis plants.

After 4 years puff decided he wanted to share his passion with on the internet.The rules of dont tell anyone annoyed him greatly ,so he decided to join rollitup ,do a journal and share the information he had learned along the way.

One day mike91sr came along and told puff he was full of shit.This made puff sad.Mike told puff that all the cannabis authors ,nutrient manufacturers were all full of shit and that every article and forum post on the advocation of flushing was also a big fat lie.Puff tried reasoning with mike ,but mike wanted lab results ,not puffs own experience or that of any of the thousands of satisfied flushers..Puff felt inclined to tell mike to where to go ,but because he was such a cool person ,he decided to let mike have his little victory.Puff then had a beer ,a joint and lived happily ever after

the end

 

[Ninjabowler]

Lol........

 

[cues]

Its not organics vs chemicals. organic elements are chemicals themselves. Its about organic vs. synthetic or "man made" they are not derived from natural and organic ways. They contain salts which kill beneficial organisms like i posted earlier. stop spreading bs. We know how this shit affects plants lol.Wtf are you talking about.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't arguing against your point, just adding my own. At what point do you call things derived from 'natural and organic ways?' When it's cow crap?
Yes, bottled fertilisers contain salts. Not, however in the form of sodium chloride that we are familiar with. There is more to it than that. Not only as part of the osmotic relationship with roots that are required, but as an essential nutrient. If your concern is with osmotic pressure, urea has exactly the same effect.
There are differences, mainly in the use of different forms of the same base element to convert them into a usable form, making them less likely to 'burn' plants in a single application. That is not an advantage, it is a compromise.
Most weed growers (especially hydro) are far more precise in their applications than the average farmer's 'once every six weeks'.
I do agree with your explanation on the basic requirements of soil but it lacked two important points. Drainage and air capacity. And that is where hydro will beat organic soil every time. All we can do is attempt to truly learn soil science and apply it to hydroponics.
In a large garden or on a field, it's a different matter. In a cupboard in a house is my thing.

 

[mike91sr]

Jeez ninja, you too now? I was just about to complement you on that basil plant and continue the discussion with you, but now youre gonna try to attack a post that wasnt even directed at you because you dont understand what you believe is my??! "socalled botany" but want me to dumb it down? You wouldn't believe me if I explained it anyway, but luckily the information/reading is there for you just like it is for me. So nobody here has to take my word. If you can understand even the abstract from these, I honestly fail to believe you will still think flushing has any affect on metal content of flowers at harvest after a bit of logical reasoning, of course aside from extreme toxicity or deficiency, i.e. severe enough to seriously affect every physiological process. None of these suggests that reducing late production mineral content will have any affect on fruit content at harvest since the plant doesn't just pull nutrients from the MOST important part of itself, only hinder every other physiological process necessary for proper maturation.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1360138502022951
http://www.eolss.net/Sample-Chapters/C10/E5-24-04-05.pdf
http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/35/4/627.short
http://www.publish.csiro.au/?paper=BI9600441
https://www.crops.org/publications/sssaj/abstracts/21/6/SS0210060621
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1004263304657?LI=true
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf8036374
http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/39/3/512.short
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10705-005-3367-8?LI=true

When either of you wants to discuss science, I'll be here. If you want to talk about the how the plants YOU are growing demonstrate this or that instead, go ahead. Just don't complain when people tell you that you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Sunbiz1]

Jeez ninja, you too now? I was just about to complement you on that basil plant and continue the discussion with you, but now youre gonna try to attack a post that wasnt even directed at you because you dont understand what you believe is my??! "socalled botany" but want me to dumb it down? You wouldn't believe me if I explained it anyway, but luckily the information/reading is there for you just like it is for me. So nobody here has to take my word. If you can understand even the abstract from these, I honestly fail to believe you will still think flushing has any affect on metal content of flowers at harvest after a bit of logical reasoning, of course aside from extreme toxicity or deficiency, i.e. severe enough to seriously affect every physiological process. None of these suggests that reducing late production mineral content will have any affect on fruit content at harvest since the plant doesn't just pull nutrients from the MOST important part of itself, only hinder every other physiological process necessary for proper maturation.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1360138502022951
http://www.eolss.net/Sample-Chapters/C10/E5-24-04-05.pdf
http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/35/4/627.short
http://www.publish.csiro.au/?paper=BI9600441
https://www.crops.org/publications/sssaj/abstracts/21/6/SS0210060621
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023%2FA%3A1004263304657?LI=true
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf8036374
http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/39/3/512.short
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10705-005-3367-8?LI=true

When either of you wants to discuss science, I'll be here. If you want to talk about the how the plants YOU are growing demonstrate this or that instead, go ahead. Just don't complain when people tell you that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Fuck all that, think I'll have a joint and a beer...lol

 

[smokejoint]

mike do you have a qualification in biology or botony?

 

[mike91sr]

Seriously, fuck learning right?? Being ignorant and ranting around forums is waaay better of a life choice.