Induction Lights? The newest (supposedly) technology in Induction Grow Lights

Kite High

Well-Known Member
Ok first of all I have seen decent grows with the rf fluoroscent. I have seen decent but not as good led grows. I have not seen EITHER outperform hid. If and when I do I may consider. Am more hopeful on the mh plasmas. But as I do really like how my chambers perform highly doubtful I will change.
 

THE KONASSURE

Well-Known Member
inda-gro is a pro growers light if you do some real reading and stop letting your asses chat it up with your mouths you'd get off the forums buy one and see for yourself. You either vibe with something or you don't, in this case we're talking about the truth. So vibe with the real deal or don't. But i'll tell you first hand, what a feeling to let my girls do their thing keep it stupid simple and hit the gym and keep my body healthy and happy as well. Run a 9000 BTU ac and a couple fans no ducting except for the AC, and just have a great time vaping bag after bag of my previos IG harvest, i'll tell you at my young age I am quite grateful and blessed. If you want to ask stupid questions go to the newbie forum but if you want to support IG Lighting and actually learn more from some people who are in the field using and growing with Inda-gro lights then this is the place to be. I run 1260 watts and don't have to worry about heat or any issues, and i'm chillin in an old peoples apartment ;) 8 inch inline and a presh filter and a duct muffler (silencer). Life is great, I take care of the ladies hand water them and always spend time with them we listen to lots of Francisco Tarrega and Mozart and Bach and fill up digital volcano bags and observe the short internodal growth and the dank spectrum light so the plants can take the spectrums of light THEY need when they need it. Its not my job to control them to that extent, I just share my co2 with them and love them a lot and provide the water (elixir of life) for their roots to soak up. Keep it simple. the 1260 watts 3 pro 420's covers a 4 x 8 comfortably and a 5 x 5 no prob. Anyways give thanks and stay lifted and remember, the Inda-Gro pro420 is def worth it and the more people who support Induction the sooner the industry can take off all over the states ;) Guys who make these lights work hard and there's no doubt they deserve to do well for themselves. I know i am, take care
Hmm we might have a problem I use an arizer, I use a 6" fan, I use a 8000 btu aircon unit, I chill in an old peoples home we`ll my parents and uncle live here but I cover most of the bills

I use aero/hydro play my plants plenty of metal music and we watch films together

I use china made leds and cheap induction as I wanted something better then cfl at a low price

Hmm watts wise 1000w in my flower area and around 100 to 200w in my veg area plus pumps and foggers

but hell you seam like a cool guy

Do you want a cool free tip ? if you fit an 18.8mm glass joint to a vape bag it plugs right into a perc bong and the whole world becomes a much much higher place buddy !
 

Kite High

Well-Known Member
inda-gro is a pro growers light if you do some real reading and stop letting your asses chat it up with your mouths you'd get off the forums buy one and see for yourself. You either vibe with something or you don't, in this case we're talking about the truth. So vibe with the real deal or don't. But i'll tell you first hand, what a feeling to let my girls do their thing keep it stupid simple and hit the gym and keep my body healthy and happy as well. Run a 9000 BTU ac and a couple fans no ducting except for the AC, and just have a great time vaping bag after bag of my previos IG harvest, i'll tell you at my young age I am quite grateful and blessed. If you want to ask stupid questions go to the newbie forum but if you want to support IG Lighting and actually learn more from some people who are in the field using and growing with Inda-gro lights then this is the place to be. I run 1260 watts and don't have to worry about heat or any issues, and i'm chillin in an old peoples apartment ;) 8 inch inline and a presh filter and a duct muffler (silencer). Life is great, I take care of the ladies hand water them and always spend time with them we listen to lots of Francisco Tarrega and Mozart and Bach and fill up digital volcano bags and observe the short internodal growth and the dank spectrum light so the plants can take the spectrums of light THEY need when they need it. Its not my job to control them to that extent, I just share my co2 with them and love them a lot and provide the water (elixir of life) for their roots to soak up. Keep it simple. the 1260 watts 3 pro 420's covers a 4 x 8 comfortably and a 5 x 5 no prob. Anyways give thanks and stay lifted and remember, the Inda-Gro pro420 is def worth it and the more people who support Induction the sooner the industry can take off all over the states ;) Guys who make these lights work hard and there's no doubt they deserve to do well for themselves. I know i am, take care
i run three hids, two open fixture one in a cool tube WITH NO FAN as it is vertical and natural convection takes care of that. I also run 8 46" t5 HO's two in each comer. In a completely sealed environment with co2 so no need of venting. I have a 9500 btu mini split in a 5x5x9 height. I run 3 cmh 400's in veg and 2cmh and one hps in flower. All three of my light setups were had for just a little more than I rf flouro 420. The t5ho s I included because I like sativas and older long veg plants as the potency is a good bit higher with older plants IME. THE CMHS IMO offer as good if not a better spectrum dispersal than the rf flouros and the penetration with the correct reflector is hands downs higher and the elec costs the same. I run PL Lighting deeps on light rails.

So how is the rf Fluor "better" and if it is a professional growers light then why are there NO COMMERCIAL OPERATION OR BREEDERS using them and heralding them? Same as with LEDs, they are NOT better. Sure they have their place for certain situations but please save the their better than hid cause they are not. The good thing is they last long like LEDs but I can afford $150 every three years with the benefits of the yield from the hid.

What everyone seems to be missing is it is just a fluorescent tube with rf conduction rather than electrodes and all this does is extend the life. It is not new at all and the chinks are trying to find a market for the antique tech so why not aim at the biggest set of gullible customers out there like they do with LEDs. Growers.

Now iam not knocking your choice and I am glad you like your setup. But again please do not insinuate that they are better, more energy efficient and a professional growers light because they are not. For even at 420watts the fluoros are lacking in penetration ability and no professional grower uses flouros for flowering cannabis. Although I might add they seem to do a much better jobs than LEDs. I am watching the plasma mh's myself and currently aren't there yet either but there's lots of room for improvement there.

Watch out here comes eat biscuit rambling about LEDs.
 

chazbolin

Well-Known Member
Hey Kite, It's 2013 so there are thousands of technologies that by your definition would be antique. But they evolve. We're not still driving around in model A's but we're still driving cars. Our battery technology stores energy more efficiently for longer periods and at lighter weights. Our gasoline engines provide higher MPG and are cleaner burning than even 20 years ago. I could go on and on but you get the idea. But to your point, the electrodeless induction lamp was discovered in 1891 by Nikolas Tesla so to that point I would certainly agree that it would qualify the technology as antique. But in looking at all of the Tesla patents on the link below you will see that the vast majority of them are still in use today albeit in evolved forms. The very computer we type on derives power from Tesla's patented AC distribution systems.

A reading of the original Tesla induction lamp patent application s well worth the time to see how he defined exactly what it was he had discovered and in it's elemental form what we continue to use today;

Be it known that I, NIKOLA TESLA, a subject of the Emperor of Austria-Hungary, from Smiljan, Lika, border country of Austria-Hungary, and a resident of New York, in the county and State of New York, have invented certain new and useful Improvements in Methods of and Apparatus for Electric Lighting, of which the following is a specification, reference being had to the drawings accompanying and forming a part of the same.

http://www.teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla-patents-454,622-system-of-electric-lighting
So as side by side comparisons with induction lamps go, even going back to the early 20th century when Tesla's induction lamps were compared to Edison's incandescent lamps the Tesla lamp would burn for 5,000 hours compared to Edison's that at best ran for 1,200 hours. Kinda makes you wonder why so few people have even heard of induction lighting systems or why they didn't gain more commercial acceptance doesn't it?

If anything the fact that the aforementioned technologies have evolved to still exist in today's society is a testament to their enduring qualities. Which BTW the incandescent lamp has not passed that test, at least in the USA, as it is being made unavailable for purchase pursuant to our Energy Act and congruent with our participation in the United Nations Kyoto Protocol (climate change initiative) which makes it illegal to sell any incandescent lamp within the US after 2013.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_incandescent_light_bulbs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Protocol

It is safe to say that today's version of Tesla's induction lamp has evolved from it's original form in a number of important ways;

-Properly designed they are capable of operating at a power factor of 1 (unity) with a total harmonic distortion of less than 10%.
-Automatically accept and operate at supply voltages between 110-277v 50/60Hz electrical systems.
-They use 1/10 the Mercury (Hg) of an HID or T5/T8 lamp when factored as initial and over a 20K hour operating span.
-The Hg that is used in an EFDL is in a solid amalgam form so it may be easily recycled.
-They will run for 100,000 hours with only a 30% lumen depreciation. That's 22.8 years at 365 days with 12 hour on cycles.
-At 70,000 hours the EFDL will have only depreciated by 10% of it's initial lumen output.
-Unlike halides an EFDL phosphor base is spectrally stable which creates an environment for high quality, repeatable crop production.
-Since there are no electrodes, lamps and driver warranties usually start at 5 years with some manufacturers offering warranties as long as 10 years.
-Thermal contribution (1,400 BTU/hr) is 1/3 when compared to a 1000 watt HID lamp/digital ballast combination (6,000BTU/hr).
-Most electrode type lamps have 20,000 hour ratings but will be replaced at 8-10K hours. Good for the merchant bad for the gardener and the environment.
-Phosphors are adaptable in that by blending them to certain specifications they may be used as a vegetative thru flowering single lamp solution.
-Not having to relamp during a photoperiod change means less stress to the plants. Broad spectrum lamps will usually harvest sooner with pistils showing within a few days of photoperiod change.
-Not having to relamp is less expensive and less likely to have damage/broken lamps that can occur while working over the garden causing crop losses.
-Instant on/off and dimming allows for incorporating EFDL in SCADA based greenhouse controls that monitor available sunlight levels and instantly adjust the EFDL output to meet crop specific DLI. HID lamps have a 20 minute restrike. Not gonna happen.
-By virtue of their size and light weight they cover a large area as a point source. Couple this with optimized phosphor blends and use of light rails, SOG and SCROG applications it is an extremely effective alternative to high energy/heat consumption HID systems.
-May be used in a hybridization approach with SSL-LED to energy efficiently advance and improve upon plant specific, net action absorption spectra. This approach has already been adopted by plasma lamp manufacturers to enhance flowering.
-Dependent on phosphor blends: comparable yields to a 1000watt MH/750watt HPS combo
-Dependent on phosphor blends: greater trichome production with sharp crystalline trichomes compared to globular ill defined HPS trichome production.
-Dependent on phosphor blends and strains: equal or increased levels of THC as determined by GCMS lab testing.
-Dependent upon the traditional AG crop the ROI for these systems is usually within 2-3 crop cycles. On cannabis the ROI is typically a 1/2 crop cycle.

I do understand your notion that the 'chinks' are trying to find a market for the most gullible customers and there is some truth to that, but true innovation for this technology continues to come from countries other than China. However your broad definition of the 'biggest set of gullible customers' as being a grower I would take exception to. The fact that there are forums like RIU where people do want to reach out and get information from around that of the spoon fed hydro shop gruel speaks to a type of grower that wants to do their own research and form their own opinions. Alas I'm afraid that those growers are in the minority. Also I would not be so quick to either lump nor dismiss LED or EFDL as an emerging alternative to what may very well be the future status quo. You may be too young to remember this but the Kerosene Lamp lobby of 1904 was on record as stating Tesla's AC distribution system and the Edison incandescent lamps would never gain wide acceptance either. I'll tell you one thing; it's gotten damn near impossible to find a decent Kerosene Lamp lobbyist anywhere in the world today.

Both LED and EFDL have their own strengths and weakness's but then again so do HID. With the rising price of power, the ever increasing desire to go unnoticed, wholesale prices being what they are, etc etc I can tell you that this is a technology that has been, and will continue to be, adopted by rational growers of all sizes and experience levels. And to that end we continue to have Mr. Tesla to thank.

Peace
 

Kite High

Well-Known Member
Fine and dandy but they do not outgrow hid and these supposed better efficiency ie less heat and and more light per watt is not there either and it shows in the plants. Like I said do what you do but til I see it outperform what I use I could care less about all the math gimmickry. For instance it is not possible for the total heat produced to be less when the source is less efficient at producing light. I like you and respect you Chaz but I already have read all these things and the only way to sell me on them is to show me grows that outperform. Until then I stay with my opinion. Sorry you felt like you needed to write all that. Are you selling these or LEDs? Cause that post felt like a shill. Not trying to offend but ...

mm te the only reason the incandescent was made illegal in the USA is so the GE's could force us to buy the pos cfls. Same as the fluorocarbon scam pulled by DuPont on freon.
 

chazbolin

Well-Known Member
With all due respect, because I like you too, is you take a position and become intractable. The reason I go to the trouble to respond in great detail has nothing to do with shilling one technology or brand over the other it is to illuminate the myriad issues as I know them. Nowhere in that response do I make claim that any brand or technology is better than the other. I let that for the reader to decide. If you're happy with your results and what it takes to get them than ignoring other options that is your prerogative. But it does not mean that those who choose the other technologies are any less perfect or skilled a grower in their decisions if they are satisfied with the results.

In addition to forums there is a user submitted FB page devoted to weed @ http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=440681609317478&set=vb.262974713805120&type=3&theater
 

Kite High

Well-Known Member
I already stayed they have their place and do what you do but it is when the eat a biscuits and jet whatevers come in saying it outperforms it is not true so I point it out is all. I would retract and reinvestigate when I see grows consistently out perform cmh/hps. Thats all my brother. So whacha smoking? Me I'm smoking Claustrum bho...very fine indeed
 

chazbolin

Well-Known Member
Fair enough. I try not to throw the 'math' and 'mine is bigger than yours' claims around. That is for others. So life goes on my friend.

Claustrum as a BHO huh? Now I'm jealous!!! The strain looks beautiful. Haven't tried it myself. How's the high?

I'm still working on the last of my of my Funk Haze and some mighty fine Ghost OG. Makes for a happy Chaz
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
[SUB][/SUB]Aside from initial purchase cost look at power savings . Cost vs yield. Cmh 400 even with a 330 bulb. The ballasts are still pulling around 450 -480 watts at the plug. If you matched up one cmh to one inda gro or one A51 of simar watts. Im sure the indagro or led would out yield and cover a larger area.

Kite you are comparing 3 lights yield to one IG light or led.Match watt for watt. Or same number of lights then see who will win.... Also with spliff he does have 2 lights in his tent. But he is not utiilizing the space like he could be. He has one plant under the center of each light right now. If you fill that tent and then compare total yield...... Numbers may be much different. Per plant spliff is pulling 5-6 zips with only tops...... You have to take method, strain, nutes, space all into consideration...

Thats my 2 pesos
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
Fine and dandy but they do not outgrow hid and these supposed better efficiency ie less heat and and more light per watt is not there either and it shows in the plants. Like I said do what you do but til I see it outperform what I use I could care less about all the math gimmickry. For instance it is not possible for the total heat produced to be less when the source is less efficient at producing light. I like you and respect you Chaz but I already have read all these things and the only way to sell me on them is to show me grows that outperform. Until then I stay with my opinion. Sorry you felt like you needed to write all that. Are you selling these or LEDs? Cause that post felt like a shill. Not trying to offend but ...

mm te the only reason the incandescent was made illegal in the USA is so the GE's could force us to buy the pos cfls. Same as the fluorocarbon scam pulled by DuPont on freon.
You might be wrong
But we will never know until there are more grows by reputable growers that have been on the scene for a few years
Over at another forum they banned 2 users who were touting these lights, talking them up and hyping the shit out of them
Ended up being two people at the same ip address trying to sell
Check it out for yourself
http://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-forum/showthread.php?31440-induction-grow-lights
 

Kite High

Well-Known Member
Kite, when my next grow tops 1gpw you can retract your statement... :-D
That is a preposterous way of measuring how the lights do...Sure if I wanted to grow puny plants I would look into it. But I prefer trees as they are stronger in potency IMO and since I grow for only myself I am in no hurry. On many many occasions I have well exceeded that goal without even trying as it means nothing whatsoever. For even in the accepted way of measuring yield performance of ??/grams per m2 there is error as it does not take into account height and length of grow.

Dude do what you do and have fun. Wanna dissuade me from hid to LED show me trees grown with consistency by more than a couple of people. For I tell you this I personally know a person who is a member here that was showing amazing results a few years back with LEDs. Went to his home to meet him as he was really cool people. Guess what? He was using hid and then turning them off and leaving just the leds on when he photographed. Why? Bragging rights and 30% of sales for doing so.

I know all of the math etc but I do not see those numbers in action. One day I am sure leds will become a viable option but that day is not here.

Also everyone please do realize that hid tech is being revamped as well and cmh is part of that trend as well as the high voltage hid systems such as Gavita.
 

Kite High

Well-Known Member
Fair enough. I try not to throw the 'math' and 'mine is bigger than yours' claims around. That is for others. So life goes on my friend.

Claustrum as a BHO huh? Now I'm jealous!!! The strain looks beautiful. Haven't tried it myself. How's the high?

I'm still working on the last of my of my Funk Haze and some mighty fine Ghost OG. Makes for a happy Chaz
Very uppy but no nervousness. Trippy but not paranoia inducing. Really nice just not as trippy as I like.Personally I have never had mj make me nervous and or paranoid. But everytime I read or hear someone say that it is the high I seek. Am in a love affair with c99 as it is very trippy, tastes great and joy to grow. The Claustrum is a great yielder and nute hog as well.
 

chazbolin

Well-Known Member
For even in the accepted way of measuring yield performance of ??/grams per m2 there is error as it does not take into account height and length of grow.
I can see where length of time is not directly factored in this costs/grams per m2 equation unless it's based on reduced cost per reduced time to harvest but I'm not seeing where height would not already be factored in by increased weight per m2 based on taller plants in this area. Am I missing something on this?
 

Kite High

Well-Known Member
Aside from initial purchase cost look at power savings . Cost vs yield. Cmh 400 even with a 330 bulb. The ballasts are still pulling around 450 -480 watts at the plug. If you matched up one cmh to one inda gro or one A51 of simar watts. Im sure the indagro or led would out yield and cover a larger area.

Kite you are comparing 3 lights yield to one IG light or led.Match watt for watt. Or same number of lights then see who will win.... Also with spliff he does have 2 lights in his tent. But he is not utiilizing the space like he could be. He has one plant under the center of each light right now. If you fill that tent and then compare total yield...... Numbers may be much different. Per plant spliff is pulling 5-6 zips with only tops...... You have to take method, strain, nutes, space all into consideration...

Thats my 2 pesos
OK...run 3 420's and show me
 

Kite High

Well-Known Member

hyroot

Well-Known Member
OK...run 3 420's and show me
for sure can i borrow $2000. I have $500 saved for one inda gro so far... If it wasn't for bills and having to eat and wipe my ass I would have much more money.

that would be a good vs match... cmh vs induction


My point is you can't really knock any lighting scenario until you see your method and strains implemented,

nugbuckets does amazing things under a 400 hps and a 600hps with his cabs, pulls unreal yields on short plants and few number of plants too
 

Kite High

Well-Known Member
I can see where length of time is not directly factored in this costs/grams per m2 equation unless it's based on reduced cost per reduced time to harvest but I'm not seeing where height would not already be factored in by increased weight per m2 based on taller plants in this area. Am I missing something on this?
my point is if you are equipped and can run 6-7 foot plants which I do at times, then it will surpass the regular quotations of g/m2
 

Kite High

Well-Known Member
for sure can i borrow $2000. I have $500 saved for one inda gro so far... If it wasn't for bills and having to eat and wipe my ass I would have much more money.

that would be a good vs match... cmh vs induction


My point is you can't really knockj any lighting scenario until you see your method and strains implemented,

nugbuckets does amazing things under a 400 hps and a 600hps with his cabs
Hyroot if I see it outperform then I would buy the lights and do it myself. I already have way too much money invested in this for that to matter.
Another drawback I see with them and leds are they are heavy and huge.
 

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
That is a preposterous way of measuring how the lights do...Sure if I wanted to grow puny plants I would look into it. But I prefer trees as they are stronger in potency IMO and since I grow for only myself I am in no hurry. On many many occasions I have well exceeded that goal without even trying as it means nothing whatsoever. For even in the accepted way of measuring yield performance of ??/grams per m2 there is error as it does not take into account height and length of grow.

Dude do what you do and have fun. Wanna dissuade me from hid to LED show me trees grown with consistency by more than a couple of people. For I tell you this I personally know a person who is a member here that was showing amazing results a few years back with LEDs. Went to his home to meet him as he was really cool people. Guess what? He was using hid and then turning them off and leaving just the leds on when he photographed. Why? Bragging rights and 30% of sales for doing so.

I know all of the math etc but I do not see those numbers in action. One day I am sure leds will become a viable option but that day is not here.

Also everyone please do realize that hid tech is being revamped as well and cmh is part of that trend as well as the high voltage hid systems such as Gavita.
Growing trees is extremely inefficient. You have a lot of the bud not in the prime area for light quality unless you run a bunch of side lighting...

GPW is a perfect method for measuring efficiency of lights. How many grams of quality bud you can yield per amount of energy is probably actually the best way of measuring efficiency.

Growing using LED takes different skills than just letting the plants get big, it takes training to keep them in the prime area for light quality. Your argument for large plants is just silly in that sense. You like growing one big donkey dick cola, I prefer growing 20-30 tops. To each his own.

Don't bash LED just because it doesn't conform to your growing style, that's lame.
 
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