Let's talk about this stupid immigration issue

canndo

Well-Known Member
As usual I completely disagree with just about everything you wrote. Where are these numbers that you ran?

I read this part like 3 times to make sure I was reading it right: "I have run numbers that indicate that even allowing for the taxes that illegals pay, the contribution to the national work force and their being consumers - we would be better served to actually round up all illegals and deport them"

I also had to stop and read this part three times: "I am a liberal"

I then kind of read parts about bussing people off and I started hearing that sorta charlie brown sound in my head, you know, waa waa waa waa waaa

So forgive me for not being able to follow this post entirely.

I mean to call yourself a liberal I think you have to have this underlying belief that consumers in fact grow the economy, you seem to lack that, does not compute. Then skimming over the rest just now I see you are talking about strict laws and harsh punishments, where does that get us? The reward for them is too great no matter the risk of punishment.

IDK , I honeslty don't have a problem with immigration even illegal kind. I don't feel its an issue and I think its more than likely a good thing then a bad thing. I think its unfair that they have it better than us but I am happy for them and they do help us more than hurt us.

If I can find them I will post them, they are suppostions based upon the cost of due process and deportation born by the U.S. on a single non-felonious illegal detainee and the estimated costs associated with social services granted to illegals divided by 11 million, then the guesses about how much tax and contributions illegals contribute.

As I said I will try to look for them - am cleaning up a bunch of things on old backups and such and I expect it to be there.


Now, why did you have to stop at the other thing? you know my political and ideological bent, we have been around and around on other subjects.

I don't think that a liberal has to believe that consumerism drives the economy but that seems self evident. The supposed point of those who are unhappy with porous borders are the cost in social services, the cost in social supports and the cost in resources. If those costs exceed the contributions these people make to the country then it is unwise for them us to continue to allow them entry and it may be unwise to allow them to remain.


In short - they don't carry their weight. We can curtail the reward as I talked about in the parts where you went into Charlie brown "wa wa " land.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
Serious Sanctions indeed. These Sanctions would have to be extremely severe to be effective. Until it costs companies substantially more for an illegal immigrant, there will always be a market for cash workers. Its the basic nature of business. In fact I suspect that even if the hourly wage of a cash off the books worker matched a regular payroll worker that business will still hire a substantial number of cash workers. Now if you fully criminalize hiring of illegal immigrants with strong jail term and exorbitant fines (enough to bankrupt the companies) then you might have something.

Two things - first, yes, jail time and exorbitant fines would be appropriate on a Federal level, penalties regarding state equalization or local licensing would be good as well.

Second, I don't know how many illegals work of the books but I can't see that being slowed by most of what I say other than those big fines and jail time. If a worker is getting paid under the table then no employment database is going to stop that. Many illegals get normal paychecks however.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Bucky you sit around all day everyday correcting everyone grammar and the only thing that you have basic skills in, so does the majority here.
try again, but this time in english that us english speakers can actually comprehend.

EDIT you did not do yourself any favors by adding that pic you know less about framing than you do about illegal immigration costs.
so then draw me a diagram of how to frame a 12x24 greenhouse for cheaper that will stand for one full season.

i can go climb around on mine like it were a playground.*
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
try again, but this time in english that us english speakers can actually comprehend.



so then draw me a diagram of how to frame a 12x24 greenhouse for cheaper that will stand for one full season.

i can go climb around on mine like it were a playground.*
PVC pipe?...
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Nothing to staple to. But you can build a structure you can tear down and put back up easily
2x4's are cheap, price was comparable to PVC but the integrity was much better.

the real place where you can't go cheap is with the plastic and tape. cheap plastic will get brittle and flake away after a hot summer and shitty tape won't make it through spring before peeling off. i used good, 11mm, water resistant tape meant for plumbing applications and only had to patch one spot once.
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
2x4's are cheap, price was comparable to PVC but the integrity was much better.

the real place where you can't go cheap is with the plastic and tape. cheap plastic will get brittle and flake away after a hot summer and shitty tape won't make it through spring before peeling off. i used good, 11mm, water resistant tape meant for plumbing applications and only had to patch one spot once.
I would of figured staples since you had wood to go into
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
I would of figured staples since you had wood to go into
only stapled the bottom. did not want to put any holes in the plastic up high where water could seep through and drip onto the plants. would defeat one of the purposes of the greenhouse.
 

nontheist

Well-Known Member
try again, but this time in english that us english speakers can actually comprehend.



so then draw me a diagram of how to frame a 12x24 greenhouse for cheaper that will stand for one full season.

i can go climb around on mine like it were a playground.*

Lets start with the fact everything is fucking wrong and I have seen more structurally sound buildings in Asia using bamboo and homemade rope.



  1. Using the wrong material for the job
  2. Ignoring the fact you're using the wrong material for the job it's not even treated
  3. Bottom plate not even on the fucking ground on the short runs
  4. Your bottom plate is unleveled, unsecured, and not joined at the corners correctly
  5. bottom plate on top of bottom plate
  6. You don't have fucking corner posts
  7. your corner braces are a joke without a cap plate or corners posts
  8. top plate nailed under top plate and it's supporting the rafter!
  9. YOU DONT HAVE A CAP PLATE!
  10. You don't have a header or cripple studs on the door that is supporting a fucking hack built rafter, which is sagging like hell if you care for your safety it would be wise to add a header but considering your bottom plate isn't secure or even touching the fucking ground you may be pissing in the wind.
  11. complete roof design is fucked
  12. rafters not installed right
  13. no ceiling joist on hack job rafters for cross brace strength
  14. the 22' vertical run on the rafters (is this suppose to be a wind brace?) is doing nothing
  15. Nothing up to standard on any code or basic framing.

How the fuck this stands in any kind of wind is remarkable maybe even a phenomenon. All trolling aside this should be taken down for safety it has zero load distribution and one of the worst and I don't use the word lightly frame job I have ever seen.

It is obvious you don't have the first fucking clue how to frame saying any different will only make you look like a bigger asshat than you already do. So I will ask again are you good at anything besides grammar?
 

nontheist

Well-Known Member
2x4's are cheap, price was comparable to PVC but the integrity was much better.

the real place where you can't go cheap is with the plastic and tape. cheap plastic will get brittle and flake away after a hot summer and shitty tape won't make it through spring before peeling off. i used good, 11mm, water resistant tape meant for plumbing applications and only had to patch one spot once.
If you can't tighten it, glue it, braze it, or solder it your not fucking doing it right. Plumbers use duct tape because we don't have leaks and wouldn't even attempt to fix a leak with tape. So please show me this homedepot hack shit your peddling or is it just duct tape?
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Using the wrong material for the job
had no idea standard 2x4's were insufficient for draping 6mm plastic over.*

Ignoring the fact you're using the wrong material for the job it's not even treated
it was built to last for one season. any nimrod knows a 2x4 isn't going to turn into moldy mush over the course of the driest, hottest 6 months of the year.

Bottom plate not even on the fucking ground on the short runs
it was one day later. amazing what a person can do with a roto-tiller and $20 worth of sand.

Your bottom plate is unleveled, unsecured, and not joined at the corners correctly
still came out pretty level, good enough for rural work at least. a hundred or so pounds worth of 2x4s isn't going to just blow away in the wind.

bottom plate on top of bottom plate
i didn't even think of it as a bottom plate, i just wanted to keep the two long runs evenly spaced.

You don't have fucking corner posts
yet somehow, it lasted not only one season, but two (at the very least)!

your corner braces are a joke without a cap plate or corners posts
did you even read the homework assignment? the goal is to build a greenhouse frame that will easily stand for one season while minimizing costs. cap plates and corner posts are great if you need to build a home to code in downtown los angeles, they're just extra money when you're talking about draping plastic over a frame.

top plate nailed under top plate and it's supporting the rafter!
top plate on the short run is screwed, not nailed. no nails used in construction of the frame. did you notice the 2x4's holding up the short run top plate? i could even remove those screws at the corners, all of them, and be fine.

YOU DONT HAVE A CAP PLATE!
like i said, unnecessary for the assignment at hand.

You don't have a header or cripple studs on the door that is supporting a fucking hack built rafter, which is sagging like hell if you care for your safety it would be wise to add a header but considering your bottom plate isn't secure or even touching the fucking ground you may be pissing in the wind.
you'd have a point if not for the fact that 2x2s were added every 7'' across the entire perimeter. it won't be sagging anymore.

the rafter was built on the fly because i had to work alone, no second pair of hands. i built a rafter that could hold the 2x4 until i got around to securing it.

complete roof design is fucked
no arguments there. should have gone with PVC for the roof. live and learn.

rafters not installed right
again, no arguments. but they are still standing strong after one year and will be just fine for another.

no ceiling joist on hack job rafters for cross brace strength
i gussetted the rafters a few days later, no need for joists. again, it's meant to drape plastic over for a year, not withstand an earthquake.

the 22' vertical run on the rafters (is this suppose to be a wind brace?) is doing nothing
standard sheets of 6mm plastic being 10'x25', these were placed in order to accommodate the materials i would be using. they are for securing the plastic.

but otherwise, you are right. they do nothing.

Nothing up to standard on any code or basic framing.
good thing i didn't have to follow code and wasn't flipping a fixer upper.

How the fuck this stands in any kind of wind is remarkable maybe even a phenomenon. All trolling aside this should be taken down for safety it has zero load distribution and one of the worst and I don't use the word lightly frame job I have ever seen.
yet somehow, there it stands. i can go ahead and monkey around on this thing all day. made it through the 40+ mph winds at the end of the season, and i might just go ahead and get to use it again for another season.

you're forgetting the assignment: make a frame that will stand with plastic draped over it for the least money possible. we're not building a home here.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
If you can't tighten it, glue it, braze it, or solder it your not fucking doing it right. Plumbers use duct tape because we don't have leaks and wouldn't even attempt to fix a leak with tape. So please show me this homedepot hack shit your peddling or is it just duct tape?
not coming up on home depot's website for some reason. it's in the plumbing section though. all weather, water resistant, 11mm tape. costs something like $8 a roll.

yeah, it's like duct tape. except that it stands up to moisture much better than the $4 roll of duct tape.
 

nontheist

Well-Known Member
had no idea standard 2x4's were insufficient for draping 6mm plastic over.*



it was built to last for one season. any nimrod knows a 2x4 isn't going to turn into moldy mush over the course of the driest, hottest 6 months of the year.



it was one day later. amazing what a person can do with a roto-tiller and $20 worth of sand.



still came out pretty level, good enough for rural work at least. a hundred or so pounds worth of 2x4s isn't going to just blow away in the wind.



i didn't even think of it as a bottom plate, i just wanted to keep the two long runs evenly spaced.



yet somehow, it lasted not only one season, but two (at the very least)!



did you even read the homework assignment? the goal is to build a greenhouse frame that will easily stand for one season while minimizing costs. cap plates and corner posts are great if you need to build a home to code in downtown los angeles, they're just extra money when you're talking about draping plastic over a frame.



top plate on the short run is screwed, not nailed. no nails used in construction of the frame. did you notice the 2x4's holding up the short run top plate? i could even remove those screws at the corners, all of them, and be fine.



like i said, unnecessary for the assignment at hand.



you'd have a point if not for the fact that 2x2s were added every 7'' across the entire perimeter. it won't be sagging anymore.

the rafter was built on the fly because i had to work alone, no second pair of hands. i built a rafter that could hold the 2x4 until i got around to securing it.



no arguments there. should have gone with PVC for the roof. live and learn.



again, no arguments. but they are still standing strong after one year and will be just fine for another.



i gussetted the rafters a few days later, no need for joists. again, it's meant to drape plastic over for a year, not withstand an earthquake.



standard sheets of 6mm plastic being 10'x25', these were placed in order to accommodate the materials i would be using. they are for securing the plastic.

but otherwise, you are right. they do nothing.



good thing i didn't have to follow code and wasn't flipping a fixer upper.



yet somehow, there it stands. i can go ahead and monkey around on this thing all day. made it through the 40+ mph winds at the end of the season, and i might just go ahead and get to use it again for another season.

you're forgetting the assignment: make a frame that will stand with plastic draped over it for the least money possible. we're not building a home here.
Wow an entire list of excuses for doing everything wrong you have no idea how to frame even if you wanted to do it cheap you went about it the worst fucking way possible. Don't need a top cap????? are you fucking serious? hahaha Did you take the picture down? I need something to laugh at
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Wow an entire list of excuses for doing everything wrong you have no idea how to frame even if you wanted to do it cheap you went about it the worst fucking way possible. Don't need a top cap????? are you fucking serious? hahaha Did you take the picture down? I need something to laugh at
yet somehow my greenhouse still stands without going 16'' on center! imagine that!

i saved the top cap for after harvest and trimming. we sipped fine chiantis and marveled at what an excellent 12 pound harvest we pulled from our tumultuous death trap. like sirs.



yes, the pic is still up. i'll take a new pic in a few months when i strip that bitch of her plastic so you can tell me how i failed in constructing a pile of twigs capable of supporting 4 sheets of 10'x25' plastic for a year.
 
Top