Fan Leafs. Blockers of Light Or Energy Producers???

[elkukupanda]

Who said I'm worried? Just don't understand, that's all.

If you don't know... Now you know... Diaz..

 

[Sincerely420]

So..

To definitely not touch the fan leaves at early age? Yeah...probably shouldn't do it.
But later on does it make that big of a difference?

Also chopped all the fan leaves on one side off of a seedling to tie its stem horizontal, without the leaves laying in the soil to die. That seedling is now the first of 5 to begin flowering after a weeks of veg then switching to 12/12.
Its also the most vigorous of the 5 tho they're all doing good.

I mentioned all that just because the following about the removal of fan leaves while they plants are young seems to not be a sure thing..Based on observation. Could also be a strain dependent response or depending on where the buds origins are geographically I don't know... I'm just sayin

 

[Kite High]

 

[cannawizard]

*so much "emotions" expressed in these cannabis forums.. And thanks for painting that picture.. now I need to delete that mental image of sunni & rolli... :\

 

[Uncle Ben]

I veg all day everyday. Oh wait. Nevermind.

Gonna be a lot of veggin' going on Sunday nationwide. Am gonna do some pulling at the kegerator, all kinds of eats....just need to pick up the chicken wings. Can't go wrong with a 110" diagonal screen and $10,000 surround sound system that I custom built myself. Sounds like you're on the 50 yard line, looking thru a window.

 

[Uncle Ben]

No deflection, it's an inside thing. Potroast and I don't always see eye to eye, in fact he took away my PM privileges, but we go wayyyyyy back, even before the days of any groups such as this one so there's a certain since of brotherood. Talkin' days of a newsgroup called ADPC....then there was cannabis.com, Cannabis World, Overgrow and now a hundred or so cannabis website forums such as this one. Kip was my handle way back then.

UB

 

[bde0001]

Oh no, he is purposly ignoring me, because I called him out and he knows hes wrong. It wouldnt look too good if it was clear that sunni was lieing and rolli knew she was, but stuck up for her anyways.

 

[smellzlikeskunkyum]

Like most things, there is not a simple answer like "keep all your leaves". Yes, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that leaves are the surfaces where light photons are absorbed, and carbohydrates are produced. Leaves are also very important for cooling the plant and also maintaining the flow of nutrient and water through the plant.

There is a balance between the energy needs of the plant (due to its size) and it's ability to produce energy to support growth. However! The very precense of leaves increases the need for more water uptake, nutrient assimilation, and carb production. A plant is subject to all kinds of natural hazards that cause defoliation.. Wind, disease, insects, animals, etc. the balance in the plant is not so delicate that loosing some leaves is going to cause the collapse of the plant. This is why you can lollipop a plant and low and behold...your yield will increase. Bud sites need light, as do lower leaves. Light penetration is severely limited indoors. Lower leaves don't receive a whole lot of energy if they are shaded.

Bottom line, defoliating can increase yield if used properly. I would never hack more than 20% of the canopy at one time but defoliating can increase side branches, bud maturation and increase bud sites. Simply saying "hack them off" or "leave them they are the energy sites" is a gross over simplification.

I typically defoliate a week or so before the flip, and after week 5. Before the flip, removing leaves will thicken the canopy. I take off any huge leaves that are blocking the understory and I pluck all yellow as soon as they turn. This increase air circulation and wards off mildew. Towards the end of flower, the plants nutrient needs are greatly reduced so I take off leaves that are blocking bud sites to aid in maturation and color development

The best advice is try it in moderation and observe the results.

Wonderful post. Im 100% positive it is NOT always a bad thing to remove a couple leaves that are just flat out in the way indoors. A good test of this is to leave a big fan leaf covering a top next to it. it can be from another plant next to it, or even the same plant with multiple tops that have leaves covering bud sites. Those sites, especially when tops, are certainly effected from the lack of direct light. they not only suffer in total size, but also the amount of resin.
i agree completely that its a VERY delicate balance in general, but its not such a crazy change to the plant as long as its still in veg or JUST starting flower.

Some strains are going to be completely different from others when it comes to the need for defoliation. some heavy indicas, especially land race kush for instance, need a bit of defoliation usually. Especially if you have a multi-top plant. Removing some fan leaves strategically will help even out the canopy and let proper light in for resin development. I even experimented a bit on a indica heavy Blue Widow that was grown outdoor last summer. If i hadn't of trimmed the leaves that i had, the buds that were covered would have suffered. It helped even out my canopy and im absolutely sure it increased my yield and overall quality.

Like the qouted post says... MODERATION is key. EVERY little phenotype has different needs, and gives different reactions.

 

[HeartlandHank]

in this thing of ours, there aren't any studys done on it publicized so they only way to be "convinced" one way or the other is to experiment yourself, any thing else is just listening to a debate between people who have defoliated and love it, and people who have never done it tell you how stupid it is( stupid right?)

Hmmmm... be fair here. Just because someone does not like to defoliate does not mean that they have never tried it... I've been in on this discussion. I have tried both and I have chosen to not continue with defoliation.

 

[PJ Diaz]

Like the qouted post says... MODERATION is key. EVERY little phenotype has different needs, and gives different reactions.

Yup. Everything in moderation, including moderation.

 

[keebo3000]

Hmmmm... be fair here. Just because someone does not like to defoliate does not mean that they have never tried it... I've been in on this discussion. I have tried both and I have chosen to not continue with defoliation.

glad to hear vyou have tried it and didnt like it. but if you search thru this thread the majority of the naysayers here never tried it and be-little the ones who want to experiment. that was the point of that post.

 

[keebo3000]

here is pic after first cut. . here they are after second cut three weeks later sexy bitches right???? and here are the ladies 2day... starting with the strawberry coughs, and finally the sour kush so here they are. I am no means (as you can see by the pictures) a master grower, this my hobby and i had a blast on my experiment, ... and yes uncle ben i am using a cannabis specific nutrient probably why my leaves are turning and i had so many issues late in flower.. so next experiment will be an organic grow, peace

 

[Kite High]

so no way of knowing if idefoliation actually helped or not...sux...I do not recommend going organics as it is even harder to get correct

 

[donmagicjuan]

here is pic after first cut. View attachment 2513025. here they are after second cut three weeks laterView attachment 2513030View attachment 2513031View attachment 2513033View attachment 2513034 sexy bitches right???? and here are the ladies 2day... starting with the strawberry coughs,View attachment 2513037View attachment 2513038View attachment 2513039View attachment 2513040View attachment 2513041 and finally the sour kush View attachment 2513042View attachment 2513043View attachment 2513044 so here they are. I am no means (as you can see by the pictures) a master grower, this my hobby and i had a blast on my experiment, ... and yes uncle ben i am using a cannabis specific nutrient probably why my leaves are turning and i had so many issues late in flower.. so next experiment will be an organic grow, peace

No this horror zone needs help fail fail

 

[keebo3000]

so no way of knowing if idefoliation actually helped or not...sux...I do not recommend going organics as it is even harder to get correct

i meant i was going to buy empire builder soil, or M3 mix... something simple also looking into subcool supersoil, just add water sounds great to me, i have read three books on cannabis, look for def. and how to fix them, but this hydro thing... man every grow like clockwork 6th, 7th week i have these issues.. SAME DAMN ONES yellowing leaves, etc, it looks like calmag issue , but i think i compensate for it then BLAM. yellowing, spots and curl.. i even changed nutes went from botanicare line up, to advanced nutrients complete lineup with connoisseur( friend at hydro stroe ave them to me) and although buds are denser same issue. i know im opening myself up for my detractors to have a field day with this but honestly im looking for feed back to perfect grow.. although this is just for me, and i havent been disappointed by any of my grows at some point i would like to move forward to another damn deficiency

 

[keebo3000]

No this horror zone needs help fail fail

hey thanks for your advice and input. but as you can see in my post i recognize this is a bad job, but i appreciate you reiterating it for me, thanks again

 

[Kite High]

http://www.dyna-gro.com/

 

[keebo3000]

http://www.dyna-gro.com/

I will definately get them. if i can get my plant to look half as good as yours im all in..... should get the complete lineup
as well?

 

[Kite High]

I use foliaGge pro, magpro, protekt

 

[Uncle Ben]

No this horror zone needs help fail fail

I have to degree, that indeed is a house of horrors. Those are not healthy plants. I think he's like many newbies, just happy to get few buds while thinking he's reinvented the wheel.

Bottom line? It's a feel-good thang.

UB