my gravity fed air atomizing aeroponic system

[oxanaca]

so after a lot of problems i finally got my aa rig up and running

i had it up a couple of weeks ago, but shit came crashing down. a brass fitting snapped and my compressor ran all night. the roots went brown. luckily im growing the easyest plant of them all wandering jew. i put the plants in a tub of water with an air stone and they held on.

my system is comprised of
two delavan #11 waste oil nozzles, [ im not afraid of brass ]
a california air tools "dental compressor" [ its not a great machine, but its gonna get the job done for now]
11 gallon air tank,
a bunch of pex and john guest [my lines are way to small, if i were able to fatten them way up, i would be able to run 40-42psi according to fatman at the regulator]
a junky air regulator [ i believe it constricts the volume of air my nozzles are able to tap into]
a gas can for semi gravity feeding [ seems like the only way to go as they spit and produce differnent flow rates at different siphon hights]

im running at 55psi air pressure, thats the regulator setting im actually running 42 psi at the nozzles, but my regulator, solenoid and air lines are to small
with a timer setting of
0.7 sec on time and
10 minutes off time

im using around two quarts of water a day, thats a guestamation
my temperature is 60F
and am growing in my friends backyard greenhouse with natural sunlight at 41.8N latitude,

 

[ElfoodStampo]

That's pretty neat. Have you run any nutrient through it yet?

 

[oxanaca]

the tank bottom and walls are foil faced styrefoam. i used duct tape and long nails with washers to hold it together
the top is a very intersting material. it is clear polygal greenhouse roof material. made from polycarbonate
i painted the top white and the bottom black
i opted not to use net pots as i dont think ill need the support for these plants

also fatman when you read this send me a pm, got some questions for ya.

 

[oxanaca]

That's pretty neat. Have you run any nutrient through it yet?

not yet gonna let my tank run down then fill it up to 300ppm 5.7ph. real numbes not ec meter numbers
waitin on my calcium nitrate. gonna pick it up monday

and dude its not cool posting my high school yearbook picture on here take it down buddy!!!

 

[jamesvagabond]

That's better than my high school year book picture! I had hair down to my shoulders and I was about 60 lbs heavier than I am now, so when I got my pictures back from the photographer I thought I had mistakenly gotten a girls picture. After about 6 double takes I realized it was me and went straight for the scissors. Freaks and Geeks hit it on the head. Geez how far we have come from those sad days!

 

[oxanaca]

thought i would zoom in a little bit. i believe i am seeing some incredible fuzziness already, this is from two days ago, i saw them yesterday and the roots were twice as long, i wonder what tomorrow will hold. im really digging these colder temperatures. things happen slow and theres time to react to problems.
at 60F i am achieving 10 ppm dissolved oxygen. compared to 8.4 ppm at 75F.
im gonna try 0.5 seconds on the timer and see what happens. probably try it in the morning and come back at night.

also and Ive been thinking about this a lot. i wonder if it would be possible to feed a 4'x8' table with these 2 nozzles. i bet i could.

im also interested in replacing the solenoids in my feed lines with check valves. just seems like it would make things simpler
i wish i knew more about physics then i could order custom diameter rubber balls and order a variety of precision springs and make my own. have to read up on that

 

[oxanaca]

That's better than my high school year book picture! I had hair down to my shoulders and I was about 60 lbs heavier than I am now, so when I got my pictures back from the photographer I thought I had mistakenly gotten a girls picture. After about 6 double takes I realized it was me and went straight for the scissors. Freaks and Geeks hit it on the head. Geez how far we have come from those sad days!

it hasent actually been that long for me i just skipped my 5 year class reunion. but ive definitly come a long way since then.

 

[jamesvagabond]

Me neither, class of '04. I think there is a hs photography conspiracy where they collectively agree to make everyone look like they are from the 80's.

 

[jamesvagabond]

Getting towards the 10 year reunion, yikes; doubt I'll go but it would be nice to show how I turned into a beautiful swan...wait a minute...NJ and dreads/beards don't mix...still an ugly duck I guess

 

[jamesvagabond]

I am waiting to hear back from BETE about the XA's, and I gotta say those are some sexay XA's. I hope you were right about the 50 dollar SS nozzles.

 

[oxanaca]

I am waiting to hear back from BETE about the XA's, and I gotta say those are some sexay XA's. I hope you were right about the 50 dollar SS nozzles.

I am waiting to hear back from BETE about the XA's, and I gotta say those are some sexay XA's. I hope you were right about the 50 dollar SS nozzles.

im actually pretty cool with brass myself. i reallly think these delavans are gonna produce good results. dont forget the tip is made from stainless steel.
i bet with the low ec used in AAA, ill never have any problems with copper oxide buildup . althought i might try to do some kind of maintenance between grows


actually if i could start again i would purchase hago nozzles instead. half brass, half stainless

http://www.patriot-supply.com/search_new.cfm?old_search=siphon&q=SIPHON+NOZZLE&search=Go

my nozzle is a 1 gallon per hour model. it has the highest flow rate of all there nozzles. it also uses the lease amount of air of all the nozzles. per gallon.
it uses 1.02 cubic feet of air per minute to atomiise 1.15 gallons of waste oil per hour at 5psi and 1 inch lift. i wonder what this translates into at 42psi and much lighter water. and no height, (gravity fed)

thats some pretty poor performance, when you compare it to a bete XAAD nozzle which is a pressure fed nozzle. at 40psi air and 40psi water the bete XAAD atomizes 11.1 gallons per hour using 2.2 cfm. not to mention internal mix produce smaller droplets than siphon\gravity

when you crunch the numbers you find that the delavan is using 52.17 cubic feet of air to atomize one gallon of oil.
the Bete is using 12.1 cubic feet to atomize on gallon of water. i wish i knew of a way to measure the water and air volume my delavans are using, rather than going by the waste oil specs. ill have to conduct an experiment.

 

[oxanaca]

i dont know how handy you are
but before you go buy a shitty or overpriced silent compressor you should investigate using a fridge or a/c compressor. check out this video im gonna attempt to copy his compressor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&v=rXDILI6J_fI&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=nA-XbfxqgRo&feature=endscreen

 

[jamesvagabond]

i dont know how handy you are
but before you go buy a shitty or overpriced silent compressor you should investigate using a fridge or a/c compressor. check out this video im gonna attempt to copy his compressor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&v=rXDILI6J_fI&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=nA-XbfxqgRo&feature=endscreen

That is definitely the course I am taking. Now I am trying to find a bootleg accumulator too.

 

[Trichy Bastard]

im actually pretty cool with brass myself. i reallly think these delavans are gonna produce good results. dont forget the tip is made from stainless steel.
i bet with the low ec used in AAA, ill never have any problems with copper oxide buildup . althought i might try to do some kind of maintenance between grows


actually if i could start again i would purchase hago nozzles instead. half brass, half stainless

http://www.patriot-supply.com/search_new.cfm?old_search=siphon&q=SIPHON+NOZZLE&search=Go

my nozzle is a 1 gallon per hour model. it has the highest flow rate of all there nozzles. it also uses the lease amount of air of all the nozzles. per gallon.
it uses 1.02 cubic feet of air per minute to atomiise 1.15 gallons of waste oil per hour at 5psi and 1 inch lift. i wonder what this translates into at 42psi and much lighter water. and no height, (gravity fed)

thats some pretty poor performance, when you compare it to a bete XAAD nozzle which is a pressure fed nozzle. at 40psi air and 40psi water the bete XAAD atomizes 11.1 gallons per hour using 2.2 cfm. not to mention internal mix produce smaller droplets than siphon\gravity

when you crunch the numbers you find that the delavan is using 52.17 cubic feet of air to atomize one gallon of oil.
the Bete is using 12.1 cubic feet to atomize on gallon of water. i wish i knew of a way to measure the water and air volume my delavans are using, rather than going by the waste oil specs. ill have to conduct an experiment.

Subbed... You can measure your nozzle's performance by spraying for a set amount of time, such as exactly 10 seconds... Spray into a large plastic bag so you can get an idea of how much air is in it, and also measure the liquid in the bottom after it condenses. Divide whatever amounts you have by 10 to get the "per second" rating, or whatever math you want. I am still trying to think how you can measure the air volumes accurately, perhaps using a known sized bag such as a 30 gallon trash bag, and estimating the percentage filled. The siphon nozzles use alot more air, as it's the air energy being used to draw up the nutes... Pressure fed uses the least amount of air because none is consumed in drawing the nutes.

 

[jamesvagabond]

I wonder if a balloon around the nozzle would be a good indicator of air volume output? Might be able to hook it up to a flow meter, or just measure the increase in balloon size. Then again at those pressures the balloon could just burst immediately.

 

[oxanaca]

i figured out how ill measure the water used

ill take a 20 foot long clear line and fill it completely with water. then ill run it for 10 seconds and mark how many feet of water was used. then ill fill the tube with that exact amount of water. and empty it into a scale. i will determine the weight of the water and then convert that to milliliters. as one milliliter/cc = 1 gram

 

[oxanaca]

I wonder if a balloon around the nozzle would be a good indicator of air volume output? Might be able to hook it up to a flow meter, or just measure the increase in balloon size. Then again at those pressures the balloon could just burst immediately.

hey if you discover a reliable way to measure compressed air usage let me know ive been thinking about this lately.
i was thinking i might be able to charge my compressor to 100psi and run my nozzles for a set time and calculate the total volume used based on the pressure drop.
with the total volume of my tank and lines factored in. im not sure on the math though, where atomizer these days? im to stoned for this shit

i think this might not be all that accurate though, seeing how i dont know the volume of my lines, compressor hose. and who knows how accurate my pressure gauge is

 

[oxanaca]

damn!!! i forgot to bring my camera but

i saw the plants again today. and turned my timer down to 0.5 on timer setting from 0.7 timer setting.
it was 80+ degrees for a few hours. the roots are at least 5x as long as in the previous pictures now.

i have some roots that i have dubbed "super fuzz". i notice most of this super fuzz. appears right next to the neoprene collar where there may be some shelter. i hope this isnt an indicator of to large of droplets. im going to try cranking the air pressure up slightly to see if this makes smaller droplets which produce hairier roots.

ive seen roots like this before in soil plants. it was on roots sticking out the bottom of pots, where the plant hadent been watered in a while and was sort of dryed out.

i just hung my camera on the door nob so i probably wont for get it tomorrow, no promises though

 

[jamesvagabond]

hey if you discover a reliable way to measure compressed air usage let me know ive been thinking about this lately.
i was thinking i might be able to charge my compressor to 100psi and run my nozzles for a set time and calculate the total volume used based on the pressure drop.
with the total volume of my tank and lines factored in. im not sure on the math though, where atomizer these days? im to stoned for this shit

i think this might not be all that accurate though, seeing how i dont know the volume of my lines, compressor hose. and who knows how accurate my pressure gauge is

Might be able to convert the psi to displacement. I quickly found this link that discusses boost psi vs. displacement. It is designed for engines but it should be translatable to air compressors.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/10628927-post2.html

 

[jamesvagabond]

This is a better link for determining the displacement of an air compressor. I think this is closer to what you are looking for.

http://www.eq-repair.com/compressed.htm