Butane Extraction – Bullshit ??

[Timmahh]

Thanks Timmahh
, that helped ( I think ) so the stainless and special gaskets are more for the purity of the oil than it is for safety , when they used the 5x or 4x could they tell in any way that the oil had been extracted by Butane ? I mean by looks , taste , or smell ?

abe ,
that honey oil pen-pipe you mentioned must be good , is that similar to a E-cig vap pen ? and have you ever tried a oil extracted with Butane that tasted pure , so pure that you could not even tell Butane was used ?

no that Tansumi (sp) unit is made as a Butane ReCapture unit. IE you dont lose the butane, you evap it out of the oil, and recapture it. This keeps butane costs down, which besides product to extract oils from (depending on product to be used), butane cost is the largest expense. If you recapture the butane, or the majority of it, that expense decreases...

im un aware of the Terpenator (link anywhere). The Tansumi unit is designed and sold as a Food/Medical Grade Item. Thus the Stainless Steel (anti bacterial, easy to sterilize and is non reactive) and Vitron Orings. When it come to making foods and medicines, certain products are expected to use particular materials to meet or exceed set safety standards of the Food Processing or Medical Industries.

Proverted Uncle Sam has his finger in everyones asshole atleast to the 2nd Knuckle.

 

[Huel Perkins]

I'm an ice water hash guy just listening in here....

I'd like to do a small run with my bubble hash trim with butane to see whats left behind...

 

[NEEDMMASAP]

I'm an ice water hash guy just listening in here....

I'd like to do a small run with my bubble hash trim with butane to see whats left behind...

I was going to ask if anyone had used one system to check to see how good the other system did at taking out the THC and or the CBD , , also would be nice to know what the results would be if you did the Butane extraction and then the your ice water method to see if anything was left .

 

[dbkick]

no that Tansumi (sp) unit is made as a Butane ReCapture unit. IE you dont lose the butane, you evap it out of the oil, and recapture it. This keeps butane costs down, which besides product to extract oils from (depending on product to be used), butane cost is the largest expense. If you recapture the butane, or the majority of it, that expense decreases...

im un aware of the Terpenator (link anywhere). The Tansumi unit is designed and sold as a Food/Medical Grade Item. Thus the Stainless Steel (anti bacterial, easy to sterilize and is non reactive) and Vitron Orings. When it come to making foods and medicines, certain products are expected to use particular materials to meet or exceed set safety standards of the Food Processing or Medical Industries.

Proverted Uncle Sam has his finger in everyones asshole atleast to the 2nd Knuckle.

The tamisium advantage is more than solvent recovery. lots of variables to tweak to get different types of product. what is this thread about anyway?

 

[NEEDMMASAP]

I'm an ice water hash guy just listening in here....

I'd like to do a small run with my bubble hash trim with butane to see whats left behind...

Sorry about that Huel , I guess I had just repeated what you said , you would have to try it each way to know which way would be best , do you follow what Gray Wolf and his group is doing out west ?
http://skunkpharmresearch.com/

 

[NEEDMMASAP]

no that Tansumi (sp) unit is made as a Butane ReCapture unit. IE you dont lose the butane, you evap it out of the oil, and recapture it. This keeps butane costs down, which besides product to extract oils from (depending on product to be used), butane cost is the largest expense. If you recapture the butane, or the majority of it, that expense decreases...

im un aware of the Terpenator (link anywhere). The Tansumi unit is designed and sold as a Food/Medical Grade Item. Thus the Stainless Steel (anti bacterial, easy to sterilize and is non reactive) and Vitron Orings. When it come to making foods and medicines, certain products are expected to use particular materials to meet or exceed set safety standards of the Food Processing or Medical Industries.

Proverted Uncle Sam has his finger in everyones asshole atleast to the 2nd Knuckle.

Tim you can find the Terpenator on Gray Wolfs site http://skunkpharmresearch.com/

 

[Figong]

Tim you can find the Terpenator on Gray Wolfs site http://skunkpharmresearch.com/

I found the gas chromatograph I want on that site, thanks NEEDMMASAP! Added to the list of shit to acquire eventually, am eyeing the 8610C

 

[mushead]

id be interested to see what a bho run does after a good ice wash. the idea that water hash only separates resin glands and leaves most or all the plant phenols, terpenoids and other cannabinoids is just wrong. my hash always smells and taste delicious, an there all strain specific, yeild, high,taste and smell. obviously solvent extracts pull more out but its also much easier to cut corners and get bad/unhealthy product, and more isnt always better. good ice hash can easily get up to 50-60% if your starting material is A-1 and your tech is on point. please what ever you do at least study some respectable bho makers and learn the easy way, with all of your skin still attached, the medical scene as a nation doesnt need more bad bho press. if your really into knowledge, get into organic chemistry and teach the ones who think they know. as far as bho being unhealthy, imo id say we just dont know yet. it simply hasnt been around long enough, unlike cold water extractions.. and the pvc pipes with coffee filters is a fail tech, theres a reason they use stainless. theres really good info start to finish out there, just gotta search some.

 

[mushead]

N-butane would prove quite viable, as it's an active solvent and it can completely evaporate at a lower temp than a few others... and there's a big difference between normal butane, and pure N as well.

are you saying normal butane as in lighter fluid type butane without (N) nomenclature? or N butane vs pure N butane? because Nbutane is the pure form. just wanted to make sure everyone understood you correctly Figong. also check with your supplier to make sure its true N butane, which should have no propane etc. ive seen some so called "N butane" that was 90/10 or so, which is not really what you want. not sure how they can label it that way legally.. id stay away from Chinese brands too. really the quality of solvents should be its own sticky by now..

 

[nick88]

If you think the lighter fluid in a bic lighter is close to medically pure n-butane you need to go back to school before you attempt any sort of solvent extraction.
Edit: the point of my post being there is a huge difference between someone who shoves material in a tube sprays with canned lighter fluid and someone who runs a professional closed loop system with medical grade butane. One is making poison the other is making medicine.

OP didn't say anything about different types of butane, or what kind to use.. They were talking about the over priced stuff on the market as being bullshit.
Why can't some people comprehend what the hell they're reading and comment on what's posted, instead of being a smartass, or completely changing the subject.

 

[kpmarine]

If you think the lighter fluid in a bic lighter is close to medically pure n-butane you need to go back to school before you attempt any sort of solvent extraction.
Edit: the point of my post being there is a huge difference between someone who shoves material in a tube sprays with canned lighter fluid and someone who runs a professional closed loop system with medical grade butane. One is making poison the other is making medicine.

You need to go back to school before you attempt any sort of reading comprehension. The OP was clearly referring to the fact that his lighter is made of significantly cheaper materials than commercial butane extraction units (Stainless vs. Plastic), he made no mention of the quality of butane ran through the system. He was essentially asking: "If plastic can contain the butane in my lighter, why can't it contain the butane in my extraction unit and save me some cash on equipment costs?".

 

[abe supercro]

Why can't some people comprehend what the hell they're reading and comment on what's posted, instead of being a smartass, or completely changing the subject.

Sorry guy guess it's just in my nature. To be fair I try not to ramble much, but to stay not topic and not be a smartass is really asking too much from me.

 

[NEEDMMASAP]

So how does the 4x and 5x affect the choice ? Does it apply to n-butane or isobutane or both ? Note it states " butane " refers only to n-butane .
Butane is a gas with the formula C[SUB]4[/SUB]H[SUB]10[/SUB] that is an alkane with four carbon atoms. The term may refer to either of two structural isomers, n-butane or isobutane (or "methylpropane"), or to a mixture of these isomers. In the IUPAC nomenclature, however, "butane" refers only to the n-butane isomer (which is the isomer with the unbranched structure). Butanes are highly flammable, colorless, easily liquefied gases. The name butane comes from the roots but- (from butyric acid) and -ane.

 

[st0wandgrow]

So many fallacies, so little time...

Ice-water hash extracts gland heads and plant sludge and generally will be ~ 30-40% THC. Left behind is most of the terpenes and cbd's. Various bubblehashs will have some flavor attributes, but they are quickly masked by the heavier, less interesting hash spice.

BHO extractions are more concentrated (50-75% THC) and include higher proportions of incidental medicinals (terpenes, phenols, flavonoids and oils). Sensitve extractions can have overwhelming and allurious (sic) flavors.

Insofar as safety is concerned, Butane and Water kill you the same way - suffocation. As long as you can avoid burning yourself to death, Butane toxicity is a Red Herring...

"Ice-water hash extracts gland heads and plant sludge and generally will be ~ 30-40% THC. Left behind is most of the terpenes and cbd's."

You just contradicted yourself. "Gland heads" (trichomes) are where the active ingredients in cannabis are located (THC, CBD, etc). Terpines also call trichome heads home. Yes, ice water hash extracts gland heads. No, it does not leave the cbd's and terpines behind. That would take an act of god to accomplish.

"Various bubblehashs will have some flavor attributes, but they are quickly masked by the heavier, less interesting hash spice."

We can agree to disagree here, but my bubble is actually more flavorful than the flowers it was extracted from, so I'm not sure where you're coming up with that.

"BHO extractions are more concentrated (50-75% THC) and include higher proportions of incidental medicinals (terpenes, phenols, flavonoids and oils). Sensitve extractions can have overwhelming and allurious (sic) flavors."

You're probably correct. I will defer to your expertise on the topic.

"Insofar as safety is concerned, Butane and Water kill you the same way - suffocation. As long as you can avoid burning yourself to death, Butane toxicity is a Red Herring."

OK, lets do an experiment. You take a 1/2 liter jug of butane and drink it, and I'll take a 1/2 liter jug of water and drink it. Let's see who's doing better an hour later. Also, I've yet to see/hear of anyone blowing their house up making bubble hash. I've seen/heard plenty of folks doing that making bho. Red Herring my ass.

 

[tomcatjones]

If you think the lighter fluid in a bic lighter is close to medically pure n-butane you need to go back to school before you attempt any sort of solvent extraction.
Edit: the point of my post being there is a huge difference between someone who shoves material in a tube sprays with canned lighter fluid and someone who runs a professional closed loop system with medical grade butane. One is making poison the other is making medicine.

and stainless steel or glass tubes only... PLEASE



they do make plastic ones.. just so you know... honey bee extractors.

 

[tomcatjones]

"Ice-water hash extracts gland heads and plant sludge and generally will be ~ 30-40% THC. Left behind is most of the terpenes and cbd's."

You just contradicted yourself. "Gland heads" (trichomes) are where the active ingredients in cannabis are located (THC, CBD, etc). Terpines also call trichome heads home. Yes, ice water hash extracts gland heads. No, it does not leave the cbd's and terpines behind. That would take an act of god to accomplish.

"Various bubblehashs will have some flavor attributes, but they are quickly masked by the heavier, less interesting hash spice."

We can agree to disagree here, but my bubble is actually more flavorful than the flowers it was extracted from, so I'm not sure where you're coming up with that.

"BHO extractions are more concentrated (50-75% THC) and include higher proportions of incidental medicinals (terpenes, phenols, flavonoids and oils). Sensitve extractions can have overwhelming and allurious (sic) flavors."

You're probably correct. I will defer to your expertise on the topic.

"Insofar as safety is concerned, Butane and Water kill you the same way - suffocation. As long as you can avoid burning yourself to death, Butane toxicity is a Red Herring."

OK, lets do an experiment. You take a 1/2 liter jug of butane and drink it, and I'll take a 1/2 liter jug of water and drink it. Let's see who's doing better an hour later. Also, I've yet to see/hear of anyone blowing their house up making bubble hash. I've seen/heard plenty of folks doing that making bho. Red Herring my ass.

...so you are going to give him frostbite first...

butane boils at 32 F.... so.. drinking it would be fucking cold.

just huff and pass out..at room temp anyway lol

 

[Kite High]

If you think the lighter fluid in a bic lighter is close to medically pure n-butane you need to go back to school before you attempt any sort of solvent extraction.
Edit: the point of my post being there is a huge difference between someone who shoves material in a tube sprays with canned lighter fluid and someone who runs a professional closed loop system with medical grade butane. One is making poison the other is making medicine.

Bullfuckingshit. N butane has a higher boiling point than Iso butane so you would maybe have more residual solvent with the n butane than the iso butane. It's all about the proper purge. All the loop systems do is allow solvent recovery and lower incidence of flashing. But to say ISO makes poison and N butane does not just indicates you don't know jack squat.

 

[NEEDMMASAP]

My goal with this thread was to get rid of the bullshit , I’m seeing that the bullshit comes from different directions , if someone tells me his BHO is better because he extracts using a closed loop system it has to be bullshit because using a closed loop system has nothing to do with how pure the oil is , correct ?

Now is it important that the extraction unit be stainless steel or plastic ? I went to a site that deals with N-Butane , here is their list of materials that can be used , Question , are we back to bullshit again ?
Material compatibility

Air Liquide has assembled data on the compatibility of gases with materials to assist you in evaluating which products to use for a gas system. Although the information has been compiled from what Air Liquide believes are reliable sources (International Standards: Compatibility of cylinder and valve materials with gas content; Part 1: ISO 11114-1 (Jul 199, Part 2: ISO 11114-2 (Mar 2001)), it must be used with extreme caution. No raw data such as this can cover all conditions of concentration, temperature, humidity, impurities and aeration. It is therefore recommended that this table is used to choose possible materials and then more extensive investigation and testing is carried out under the specific conditions of use. The collected data mainly concern high pressure applications at ambiant temperature and the safety aspect of material compatibity rather than the quality aspect.
Material
Compatibility
Metals
General Behavior : Risk of corrosion by gas contained impurities in presence of moisture.

• Aluminium
  Satisfactory

• Brass
  Satisfactory

• Copper
  Satisfactory

• Ferritic Steels (e.g. Carbon steels)
  Satisfactory

• Stainless Steel
  Satisfactory

Plastics

• Polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE)
  Satisfactory

• Polychlorotrifluoroethylene (PCTFE)
  Satisfactory

• Vinylidene polyfluoride (PVDF) (KYNAR[SUP]™[/SUP])
  Satisfactory

• Polyamide (PA) (NYLON[SUP]™[/SUP])
  Satisfactory

• Polypropylene (PP)
  Satisfactory

Elastomers

• Buthyl (isobutene - isoprene) rubber (IIR)
  Non recommended, significant swelling.

• Nitrile rubber (NBR)
  Satisfactory

• Chloroprene (CR)
  Satisfactory

• Chlorofluorocarbons (FKM) (VITON[SUP]™[/SUP])
  Satisfactory

• Silicon (Q)
  Non recommended, significant swelling and modification of the mechanical properties.

• Ethylene - Propylene (EPDM)
  Non recommended, significant swelling and modification of the mechanical properties.

 

[Timmahh]

"Ice-water hash extracts gland heads and plant sludge and generally will be ~ 30-40% THC. Left behind is most of the terpenes and cbd's."

You just contradicted yourself. "Gland heads" (trichomes) are where the active ingredients in cannabis are located (THC, CBD, etc). Terpines also call trichome heads home. Yes, ice water hash extracts gland heads. No, it does not leave the cbd's and terpines behind. That would take an act of god to accomplish.

"Various bubblehashs will have some flavor attributes, but they are quickly masked by the heavier, less interesting hash spice."

We can agree to disagree here, but my bubble is actually more flavorful than the flowers it was extracted from, so I'm not sure where you're coming up with that.

"BHO extractions are more concentrated (50-75% THC) and include higher proportions of incidental medicinals (terpenes, phenols, flavonoids and oils). Sensitve extractions can have overwhelming and allurious (sic) flavors."

You're probably correct. I will defer to your expertise on the topic.

"Insofar as safety is concerned, Butane and Water kill you the same way - suffocation. As long as you can avoid burning yourself to death, Butane toxicity is a Red Herring."

OK, lets do an experiment. You take a 1/2 liter jug of butane and drink it, and I'll take a 1/2 liter jug of water and drink it. Let's see who's doing better an hour later. Also, I've yet to see/hear of anyone blowing their house up making bubble hash. I've seen/heard plenty of folks doing that making bho. Red Herring my ass.

Ya, not going to work. that is a piss poor position to argue from.

Tell you what, I ll take your bet, Straight Butane against Straigt Water, Pour up a 16 oz glass of each at 70*f, you drink the water and i ll drink the butane after a short prayer. once the prayer is done, we ll chug our glasses, and see who stands the longest.

Point is, by the end of the prayer, you ll have to drink 16 oz of water, and i ll have an empty glass, as ALL the butane would of evaporated away.

Do that is a room that is 300*f, and you too will have an empty glass. Do it at 3*f, and now we have a problem.......

Your arguement is MUTE, because you do not take into your argument, all facets of each solvents properties.


Do you even know water IS classified as a Solvent?

 

[Timmahh]

My goal with this thread was to get rid of the bullshit , I’m seeing that the bullshit comes from different directions , if someone tells me his BHO is better because he extracts using a closed loop system it has to be bullshit because using a closed loop system has nothing to do with how pure the oil is , correct ?

Now is it important that the extraction unit be stainless steel or plastic ? I went to a site that deals with N-Butane , here is their list of materials that can be used , Question , are we back to bullshit again ?
Material compatibility

Air Liquide has assembled data on the compatibility of gases with materials to assist you in evaluating which products to use for a gas system. Although the information has been compiled from what Air Liquide believes are reliable sources (International Standards: Compatibility of cylinder and valve materials with gas content; Part 1: ISO 11114-1 (Jul 199, Part 2: ISO 11114-2 (Mar 2001)), it must be used with extreme caution. No raw data such as this can cover all conditions of concentration, temperature, humidity, impurities and aeration. It is therefore recommended that this table is used to choose possible materials and then more extensive investigation and testing is carried out under the specific conditions of use. The collected data mainly concern high pressure applications at ambiant temperature and the safety aspect of material compatibity rather than the quality aspect.
Material
Compatibility
Metals
General Behavior : Risk of corrosion by gas contained impurities in presence of moisture.

• Aluminium
  Satisfactory

• Brass
  Satisfactory

• Copper
  Satisfactory

• Ferritic Steels (e.g. Carbon steels)
  Satisfactory

• Stainless Steel
  Satisfactory

Plastics

• Polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE)
  Satisfactory

• Polychlorotrifluoroethylene (PCTFE)
  Satisfactory

• Vinylidene polyfluoride (PVDF) (KYNAR[SUP]™[/SUP])
  Satisfactory

• Polyamide (PA) (NYLON[SUP]™[/SUP])
  Satisfactory

• Polypropylene (PP)
  Satisfactory

Elastomers

• Buthyl (isobutene - isoprene) rubber (IIR)
  Non recommended, significant swelling.

• Nitrile rubber (NBR)
  Satisfactory

• Chloroprene (CR)
  Satisfactory

• Chlorofluorocarbons (FKM) (VITON[SUP]™[/SUP])
  Satisfactory

• Silicon (Q)
  Non recommended, significant swelling and modification of the mechanical properties.

• Ethylene - Propylene (EPDM)
  Non recommended, significant swelling and modification of the mechanical properties.

actually you are first going to have to define what your friend believes the Definition of the word "BETTER" is.
Is it Better because its cheaper? more TCH content, or does he just get way more fucked up off of it?

If he is getting way more fucked up, then yes, one will have to wonder is it that much "BETTER" or is it that poorly processed, leaving butane behind, trapped into the product...

You can not argue point of fact, with out first determining what the facts are.

Fact is, your friends definition of better may have ZERO to do with the Solvent used.