I think flushing is a myth heres why

[Ninjabowler]

Hey geniuses attached to this thread i got a question....can somebody explain to me why when someone leaves a dwc plant to finnish in a low ppm solution that the ppm rises (can rise) at the end of the straight water only added run until chop?...did ya get that? Ppm rises on straight water from last rez change when tested at chop date. Ex. Ppm 500 then ten days later ppm 650. ???

 

[kpmarine]

Hey geniuses attached to this thread i got a question....can somebody explain to me why when someone leaves a dwc plant to finnish in a low ppm solution that the ppm rises (can rise) at the end of the straight water only added run until chop?...did ya get that? Ppm rises on straight water from last rez change when tested at chop date. Ex. Ppm 500 then ten days later ppm 650. ???

Pulling salts from the substrate; lowered Cal/Mag requirements due to lowered production of chlorophyll (I don't notice my plants shooting out tons of new leaves toward the end of flowering.); pulling salts that have been previously caking on your airstones; using tap instead of RO water; the list goes on, I'm sure. That's just the things I can think of that would jump my PPM as minorly as 15ppm a day on average, off of the top of my head. 100ppm isn't much when you consider the difference between tap and RO water alone. I'm by no means a "genius", but that's what occurs to me.

 

[Ninjabowler]

I dont know about the tap water theory, the plant was drinking around 1.8 litres of water when it came down per day every day for ten days.

 

[kpmarine]

What was the ppm of your tap water; and what was your rez size? If you had 130ppm tap water, and nothing was being removed but water was being consumed; that's an increase of ~15.6ppm per day. 130*.48/4=15.6 <---- Assuming 130ppm, 1.8L/day of water consumption (Rounded to the nearest hundredth of a gallon for my American ass, for this equation.), and a 5gal bucket for a rez with an airspace. A constant 15.6ppm increase over 10 days=156ppm; not outside the realm of possibility, given I don't know all of your parameters. That whole breakdown may not fit your parameters at all, but now you at least know where I'm coming from with it.

 

[Ninjabowler]

5 gallon rez, around 4 gallons minus roots worth of water. 3.1 gallons maybe less of water in total.

Tap water is 150 ppm or less and the plant was drinking a gallon every two days about and was only fed water for ten days. that means that it processed 4.5 gallons of 150 ppm water. Ppm rose from a starting point of 500. Is that not questionable?

 

[Ninjabowler]

Bump, ok so not questionable? It just decided to drink near five gallons in ten days and not eat a drop. Then why even feed until chop if its not eating?

 

[kpmarine]

5 gallon rez, around 4 gallons minus roots worth of water. 3.1 gallons maybe less of water in total.

Tap water is 150 ppm or less and the plant was drinking a gallon every two days about and was only fed water for ten days. that means that it processed 4.5 gallons of 150 ppm water. Ppm rose from a starting point of 500. Is that not questionable?

Well, 650-500=150ppm. Assuming your plant was using nothing in your water at the time, yet drank 4.5gal of 150ppm water; yes, totally possible. 150*4.5=675ppm. In theory, if your plant consumed nothing from the 4.5gal of 150ppm tap water (Other than the water, of course.), your water should show an increase of, roughly, 217ppm (675/3.1~217.7ppm). Assuming my math is solid (Feel free to tear it up, I may have missed something obvious.), you're left with ~67.7ppm of wiggle room for various factors before your plants starting to dump nutrients back into the solution even becomes reasonable. Assuming the substrate and airstones are going to leach off some salts too, I don't think this tells us much without more controls. Honestly, there's just too many variables.

 

[Ninjabowler]

The question im trying to figure the answer out to at the end of the day is. Whats the harm in just feeding straight 150 ppm tap water at the end if the plant isnt eating any of the food out of it anyway? Theres a pile of guys on this thread that claim that flushing is the worst thing evaaar. Youll loose potential they say. Well this pretty much proves that wrong. And i dont rip people apart for chatting with me, not my style, thanxs is more my style

 

[slightlytoasted]

If your worried about salt build ups from your res, i recommend a product called drip clean by House and Garden. super concentrated and acts like a colonic. Should start em when their babies, but if you feed it all the way thru, you only need flush for 3 days with tap. Ive never seen any harm or detriment to the quality of the plant by flushing but everyone has their own style.

 

[giggles26]

This thread is still going? Wow I can't believe that, look if your using bottled nutes then yes flush get those fucking salts out of the there, but never completely just stop slowly reduce it until the last 7-10 days do nothing but water and maybe some molasses.

Don't use no hardeners or cleaners or any of that, your just pouring more shit down the plant that they don't need. People tend to over complicate this and that's why they have so many problems. I do all organic gardening so there is no need to flush and the taste of the buds is just that much better.

All your doing is raising your ppm with all that extra shit.

Come take a walk on the organic side and I guarantee you'll never look back

 

[kpmarine]

The question im trying to figure the answer out to at the end of the day is. Whats the harm in just feeding straight 150 ppm tap water at the end if the plant isnt eating any of the food out of it anyway? Theres a pile of guys on this thread that claim that flushing is the worst thing evaaar. Youll loose potential they say. Well this pretty much proves that wrong. And i dont rip people apart for chatting with me, not my style, thanxs is more my style

That's the problem, it doesn't prove anything due to lack of controls. While your PPMs go nowhere, that tells me nothing on its own. Your plant could be pulling nutrients that are leeching from your various pourous surfaces (Unless you cleaned them to like-new condition at the same time you flushed.); meaning your plant could very well be feeding. It could also simply mean that there's nothing in the water that the plant needed; which doesn't immediately mean the plant doesn't need anything, just that it didn't have anything it needed available. Maybe it pulled some things it needed, and dumped some others back out. It's too uncontrolled: You can't account for the makeup or origins of those salts in your water, so you can't definitively say what exactly happened. See what I mean about the too many variables? That's the purpose of solid science; to control as many variables as possible to reduce the margin of error in your experiment.

 

[hotrodharley]

you people obviously dont know shit about growing buds. how in the fuck do you think its not important to flush? buds need to be clean of chlorophyll and nutes to get the great smells and flavors. if you like sparkling buds,that on you. that why im know for the best here in colorado springs. my shit isvalways bomb.

Despite your ignorance of how the plant yields chlorophyll. That's great. Flushing is a fool's errand and there appears to be ample supplies present. Please - post at least an illustration indicating the location of the anus on a plant where it will shit these byproducts.

The rest of us get those same great smells and flavors by drying properly. Curing simply enhances what ya got!!! And that's how it's done.

 

[hotrodharley]

Hey geniuses attached to this thread i got a question....can somebody explain to me why when someone leaves a dwc plant to finnish in a low ppm solution that the ppm rises (can rise) at the end of the straight water only added run until chop?...did ya get that? Ppm rises on straight water from last rez change when tested at chop date. Ex. Ppm 500 then ten days later ppm 650. ???

It indicates the plant is finished. It will grow no more and needs no more nutes. Lower your PPM to 400-600 at the highest. I run mine as low as 250 to finish. However, note there are still nutes! Flushing works for toilets, not for plants. You are not "flushing" a plant by denying it nutrition, you are starving it.

 

[Ninjabowler]

That's the problem, it doesn't prove anything due to lack of controls. While your PPMs go nowhere, that tells me nothing on its own. Your plant could be pulling nutrients that are leeching from your various pourous surfaces (Unless you cleaned them to like-new condition at the same time you flushed.); meaning your plant could very well be feeding. It could also simply mean that there's nothing in the water that the plant needed; which doesn't immediately mean the plant doesn't need anything, just that it didn't have anything it needed available. Maybe it pulled some things it needed, and dumped some others back out. It's too uncontrolled: You can't account for the makeup or origins of those salts in your water, so you can't definitively say what exactly happened. See what I mean about the too many variables? That's the purpose of solid science; to control as many variables as possible to reduce the margin of error in your experiment.

Well i did do a good cleaning of my bucket when i changed the rez, i always do. As for the comment on the plant dumping, i think your right, at 1.8 litres of water a day for ten days at the end of life its obvious the plant was healthy and circulating water well until the end. So since the ppm went up and the water being added was only at 150 there was definatly some dumping from somthing, i dont really by into the idea salts leached from somewhere else. They came out of the plant, which is what i was going for in the first place. Success

 

[bigv1976]

It seems you either dont have the intelligence to see what im getting at or you've never had ppl screaming at yr door after any weed they can their hands on. When you're moving 5 pounds a week and the only shit you can get is stuff a few days away from being ready and nothin else you are gonna take whatever you can get and keep yr customers and yr wallet happy.

I was tied in with "commercial growers" in my younger years, some may call them organise crime gangs or whatever but these guys dont smoke weed, they grow it to make cash and couldn't give a fuck what chemicals were used to kill bugs and certainly aren't concerned about curing their shit, once it's dry and burns its ready to sell as far as they are oncerned. Thats all I was getting at mate; big time growers, the growers who supply most of the weed in Australia, DO NOT CURE. Hence why i started growing all those years ago and i'm very proud to hear time and time again over the years that my shit is the best any of my customers have smoked (which is surely more genetics related than anything else).

Sorry to have gotten yr knickers in a knot, Mr Kermit.

Dude its called morals and integrity. I will not buy or sell garbage pot for the sake of a couple dollars. I would never sell uncured bud because the people I know can tell the difference. I dont deal with kids that are happy just to find some pot.

 

[kpmarine]

Well i did do a good cleaning of my bucket when i changed the rez, i always do. As for the comment on the plant dumping, i think your right, at 1.8 litres of water a day for ten days at the end of life its obvious the plant was healthy and circulating water well until the end. So since the ppm went up and the water being added was only at 150 there was definatly some dumping from somthing, i dont really by into the idea salts leached from somewhere else. They came out of the plant, which is what i was going for in the first place. Success

What substrate do you grow in? What kind of airstones do you use? Why is it not reasonable for them to be retaining nutrient salts from your water? For the record, just because you "don't buy into something" does not effect it's validity; if that were the criteria for empiricism, evolution wouldn't be a theory. If you wish to disregard something reasonable, you have to pose some evidence to support your disregard; assuming you wish your argument to be taken seriously.

 

[chuck estevez]

funny, SIR GANJA, claims there are HEAVY METALS in the plant and by flushing, you make the plant "use up" what's stored in the leaves.

, If it 'USES' these heavy metals up, then those are really "minerals" and the plant needs them if it"used them Up"

see the problem with flushing theories is just that,there theories of some internet troll.

 

[Ninjabowler]

What substrate do you grow in? What kind of airstones do you use? Why is it not reasonable for them to be retaining nutrient salts from your water? For the record, just because you "don't buy into something" does not effect it's validity; if that were the criteria for empiricism, evolution wouldn't be a theory. If you wish to disregard something reasonable, you have to pose some evidence to support your disregard; assuming you wish your argument to be taken seriously.

I grow in dwc buckets with hydroton. They arent recirculating so theres really no where that salts can build up. My hydroton doesnt touch the water and i use the grey two inch air stones. I know i need a good squirt to raise that much water 150 ppm and i cant see how it would come from residue on the stone. Is that evidence? There have been others that have seen a jump in ppm after flushing, i dont think im the only one, after all theres mobil elements that circulate through the plant right? Why isnt it possible that some came out?

 

[mehrific]

Yea I've had good luck going all organic. But I still like the bud better with a longer dry/cure. I've been guilty of rushing things myself so I can't say I'm not guilty of doing it fast but I use my MJ as medicine and I want only the highest quality as I suffer from multiple scoliosis.

Fre

multiple scoliosis wtf?! Freak of nature indeed.

To stay relevant on flushing, too many opinions saturate good advice. Look for expert advice like a book written by an educated author or from some experienced cats on this board. Then try it, see if it works for you. Obviously not a solid subject. Way to many variables. ie. Organic or synthetic, hydro or soil, feeding schedules, lights and rate of photosynthesis, what drying process, how long curing. Cause the test comes when you light that bowl and inhale. Too many teeny boppers on these forums nowadays. Then again I am no expert whatsoever, just my perspective. By the way, Im sure you(giggles) meant sclerosis.

 

[StealthAssassin]

I support both sides of this argument. When I am in late flowering I like to flush lots of water through my soil, and then feet a dilute nutrient feed at the end. I find that this hydrates the plant with the initial flus by wetting the soil thoroughly and so activating all the roots. Then once the soil is wetted properly, a feed of just a few litres of diluted flowering nutes to leave some nutrients in the soil. If you were to provide this level of nutrients to the plant over the whole fush beforehand then it would be too diluted to be beneficial. If you did not flush, but used your concentrated nutrients to provide the plant with all of its water then this may be fine, but the problem is that when you have soil like mine, that would cause too much of a build up of salts in the soil. For me however, the flushing process is not to get rid of nutrients from the plant, it is primarily to thoroughly hydrate the roots of the plant, giving it a good drink of plain water!