High CBD, Low Odor Medical Strain

[Jogro]

"Again, I don't want to be a wise-ass here, but if you really believe this to be true, please cite one."

Jogro, that's the problem with a schedule 1 drug.... you won't find many peer-reviewed, scientific studies of it. On top of that the pharmaceutical companies sure as hell won't fund any research in to it without the ability to monetarily capitalize on it.

Lots of people say this sort of thing, but its really an incomplete picture.

The world is bigger than just the United States, and plenty of medical studies are conducted elsewhere. Medical use of cannabis is legal in Holland, Israel, and Canada, for example, and there is no fundamental reason why cannabis clinical trials couldn't be done in any of those three countries, as well as within several others where use of cannabis is either tolerated or private use is legal (eg Spain, see below).

As a matter of cost, in fact, there is a drug-company created standard cannabinoid product called "Sativex" and the manufacturer would stand to gain unbelievable sums of money if this product were proven to have legitimate anti-tumor effects. That's a pretty strong incentive for them to fund clinical trials, or at least subsidize them with inexpensive drug samples. There are also plenty of private foundations, organizations, and individuals who would be happy to fund legitimate cannabis/anti-cancer research. At least one of them has actually done so in Europe (again, see below).

The fact that cannabinoids aren't by themselves patentable doesn't mean that its impossible for drug companies to make money selling them in various standardized forms. As a counter-example, there are hundreds of studies looking at the effects of aspirin. Even though that particular drug isn't protected by patent, and only costs pennies per dose, drug companies still manage to make money selling the pills at a profit, and plenty of private foundation money and gov't funding is available for ongoing research.

You are right that there are virtually no clinical trials looking at effect of cannabinoids in humans with cancer. Again, I've done a pretty thorough literature search and there is only one I could find, here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16804518?dopt=Abstract

Br J Cancer. 2006 Jul 17;95(2):197-203. Epub 2006 Jun 27.
A pilot clinical study of Delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol in patients with recurrent glioblastoma multiforme.
Guzmán M, Duarte MJ, Blázquez C, Ravina J, Rosa MC, Galve-Roperh I, Sánchez C, Velasco G, González-Feria L.
Source

Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology I, School of Biology, Complutense University, Madrid 28040, Spain. mgp@bbm1.ucm.es

This group based in Spain took terminal patients with primary brain cancer and infused THC directly into their brain tumors. . The actual drug was provided by a private German donor. As expected, all of these patients died on average in 6 months, which is fairly typical for this disease and their stage. This study didn't actually prove any survival benefit from the cannabinoid infusion, though it was fairly limited in scope.

There are plenty of examples from individuals to cite. All you need to do is use google.

The problem is that the plural of anecdote isn't "data".

Without lots of specific medical documentation and appropriate controls individual case reports are effectively meaningless. EG, what would you say if I showed you 50 accounts on Google of Elvis sightings, or UFO abductions?

I've seen plenty of these "case reports" and most of them are so poorly documented and/or badly flawed, they wouldn't even meet entry criteria into any kind of real clinical study.

And don't get me wrong, I'd love it if cannabinoids were a viable treatment for cancer. . .I just have yet to see any credible evidence that this is true.

Its one thing to HOPE that cannabis cures cancer, and quite another thing to PROVE it. Wishful thinking doesn't shrink tumors.

Simple common sense indicates that cannabinoids have been in wide medical use all over the planet for 10,000 years, literally since the dawn of recorded human history, and they've been used to treat cancers as long as human beings have had cancers. If they could actually cure cancer, that would have been established decades, if not centuries ago, and it should be trivially easy to prove, right?

 

[kindnug]

If your relative has trouble eating from chemotherapy; then you would need to supply medicine with higher THC!
THC is best for appetite stimulation, but a cerebral experience is hard to avoid. If you can find a strain with a good amount of both THC+CBD would be best.

I am neutral with the above comments^^

 

[kindnug]

It's a fact that chemotherapy patients have a difficult time eating+keeping the food down.
THC stimulates appetite enough for them to digest food+don't care if a study proves it(I witnessed it myself)
Cannabis will never cure cancer, but it can save some1 in chemo. from starvation.

 

[Jogro]

If he was just pointing out the hard truths of the situation, that would be understandable, and accepted.
Yet when Riffer said that his ill family member had 4 different types of cancer, Jogro corrected him, calling it implausible.

It is implausible, and I stand by my statement that this individual most likely has one type of cancer that has spread to multiple places, rather than four different primary cancers at once.

But rather than dwell on this, I'll let Riffer madness look into the facts and clarify this further if he feels the need to do so.

Is that telling the truth, or, telling somebody that they don't know what they're talking about?

I'm telling YOU that YOU don't know what you're talking about.

The original poster has said right up front that he doesn't know all the details. ("They caught it late. . .I can't remember the specifics"). I just suggested that his understanding of what's going on is probably flawed. If so, that's an honest (and common) mistake on his part.

Also, Jogro gave an example of colon cancer spreading to the brain, wtf?

Of course colo-rectal cancer can spread to the brain. Don't take my word for it:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1463-1318.2012.02962.x/abstract
Brain metastases from colorectal cancer: the role of surgical resection in selected patients

© 2012 The Authors. Colorectal Disease © 2012 The Association of Coloproctology of Great Britain and Ireland

Volume 14, Issue 7, pages e378–e385, July 2012

Aim  Brain metastasis is infrequent in colorectal cancer patients, and the prognosis is poor. In this retrospective study survival and prognostic factors were determined in patients with brain metastasis from colorectal cancer.

Method  Between 1997 and 2006, 39 patients with brain metastasis from colorectal cancer who survived more than 1 month were identified. Data were collected with regard to patient characteristics, location and stage of the primary tumour, extent and location of metastatic disease, and treatment modalities used.

Results  Most (79.5%) patients had pulmonary metastases before brain metastasis, and the brain was the site of solitary metastasis in only one patient. The most frequent symptom was weakness [18 (43.6%) patients]. Overall median survival was 5.0 months and the 1- and 2-year survival rates were 21.8 and 9.1%, respectively. Univariate analysis revealed uncontrolled extracranial metastases (P = 0.019), multiple brain lesions (P = 0.026), bilateral brain metastases (P = 0.032) and serum carcinoembryonic antigen levels greater than 5 ng/ml (P = 0.00 to be poor prognostic factors. The median survival after the diagnosis of brain metastasis was significantly longer in patients who underwent surgical resection (15.2 ± 8.0 months) than in those treated by other modalities (P = 0.001). Treatment modality was the only independent prognostic factor for overall survival in patients with brain metastases from colorectal cancers (P = 0.015).

Conclusion  Aggressive surgical resection in selected patients with brain metastases from colorectal cancer may prolong survival, even in the presence of extracranial metastatic lesions.

That's like saying you have to get your teeth drilled to take care of an ingrown toenail, one does not beget the other. If Jogro actually knew what he was talking about, he wouldn't have made such a statement.

Yeah, me and the Journal of Colorectal disease. . .we don't know what we're talking about. Neither does the American Society of Clinical Oncology. Apparently the Clinical Journal of Colorectal cancer is also confused about this.

For some reason these crazy surgeons and cancer doctors are all operating under the bizarre misconception that colon cancer CAN spread the brain (exactly like I wrote above). Maybe you should educate them further with your interesting insight on teeth and toenails.

There is a difference between being a nay saying know it all and telling the truth.

Indeed there is.

There is also a difference between individuals who actually know what they are talking about, and those who, despite having zero training, background, experience or knowledge in a given area, are still confident that they know what they are talking about.

 

[kindnug]

Jogro here to drop a scientific dose of knowledge on you...Humiliation!
I read his relative started chemo. and high CBD won't help him if he can't keep down foods.
Hope he pulls through> my uncle was lucky + they found it early.
My prayers for your relative.

 

[Jogro]

This may open up a can of worms/argument.. but I feel this fits. http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/healthprofessional/page4 - CBDs & Cannabinoids vs tumor growth / cancer types & locations ... Now, I know the first argument is going to be "This test wasn't done in humans so it doesn't count" .. to which I will post my rebuttal for now, and that is: "If it doesn't count for this, why do you blindly trust it for everything else from soaps and shampoos to extremely toxic/fatal cleaning chemicals?"

I'll address this.

Its not that animal studies "don't count", its that they're "not enough".

Not only are there a lot of prospective drug agents that show anti-tumor activity in test tubes ("in vitro") or animal models that simply don't pan out when tested in human beings, but the fact is that MOST such promising agents end up as failures in human trials. Most drugs that work in these models don't end up curing human cancers.

The long answer to your question is that soaps, shampoos, and cleaning chemicals are used by millions of people every single day. Animal tests are a potentially useful first step in evaluating potential toxicity, but we know what happens when people are exposed to these things via extensive everyday common use. I don't need a huge study to know that soap gets me clean or that it stings like hell if it gets in my eyes. . .everyone knows this from firsthand experience. If you want to claim that soap cures certain types of skin cancers, well, now you're making a claim that goes AGAINST everyday human experience, and I think the burden of proof rests on you to establish your claim as true if you expect to be taken seriously.

So along those lines, its not like cannabis or even cannabis extracts are really something "new". Cannabis has been in continuous medical use for literally 10,000 years since the dawn of recorded human civilization. Cannabis concentrates have been around for thousands of years, and so have edible cannabis products. Cannabis use is frequent, and widespread all over the globe. Likewise, human cancers are frequent and widespread all over the globe.

Plenty of cancer patients have smoked cannabis, eaten it, tried extracts etc, and this has been going on for hundreds if not thousands of years. People are doing it every day TODAY, including in any number of medical cannabis states, where cancer patients have access to all the (relatively) cheap high-potency cannabis extracts that they like, in any variety of forms.

The point is, if any of these things had any kind of measurable anti-tumor activity someone would probably have noticed by now.

If "Rick Simpson oil" or any of these cannabis products could REALLY cure cancers, then all of a sudden, with the advent of medical cannabis states, there would be an explosion of "miracle" cancer cures of lung cancer, metastatic breast cancer, etc. Reflecting that, the medical literature (not just badly written anecdotal case reports on Google) would be BRIMMING with individual case reports of medically documented tumor regression after this sort of therapy. There would be no need for drug company funding, and there would be no legal repercussions for the ones reporting the cases since they didn't prescribe the drug in question. The entire oncology community would be abuzz with this amazing new phenomenon where people with advanced cancers were suddenly and inexplicably cured. You'd be hearing about these miracle cures from friends, relatives, on the news, etc.

So. . .if cannabis extracts can cure cancers, where are these cured patients and case reports? Where are the dumbfounded oncologists? Etc.

The fact that we're not seeing these sorts of things implies pretty strongly that any anti-tumor effects that cannabinoids have is minimal, at best. Without strong evidence to the contrary (which, again, so far as I know doesn't exist) the appropriate presumption here is that these things simply don't have any significant effect on cancers.

Again, I don't see anything wrong with TRYING these things, especially since they probably won't hurt anything and likely actually will give much needed symptomatic relief (appetite, pain, nausea, etc). But I think if you're starting with the expectation that cannabinoids are going to shrink or cure a tumor, you're almost certainly going to be disappointed.

 

[Jogro]

Kindnug
I read his relative started chemo. and high CBD won't help him if he can't keep down foods.

Depends on what the goal of the CBD therapy is.

If he's taking it for symptomatic relief, he can potentially still vaporize a high CBD strain and get useful doses that way.

If the goal is really to try and cure the cancer. . .well, my thoughts on that are above.

 

[kindnug]

Vaporize+Edible= probably best ways to consume if your a cancer patient
My uncle just vaporized because he needed room in his stomache for nutritious foods.

 

[CC Dobbs]

There are lots of experts on this thread. Good to know.

 

[Bad Karma]

Jogro, don't you think that I might have googled if colon cancer spread to the brain, before I spoke?
The first sentence in what you used as your defense is part of why I made my statement.
"Brain metastasis is infrequent in colorectal cancer patients"
So in other words, not likely.
The cancer will spread throughout the body's circulatory system and lower organ's long before it gets to the brain.
"Most (79.5%) patients had pulmonary metastases before brain metastasis, and the brain was the site of solitary metastasis in only one patient"
1 poor soul out of 39 had it go straight from their ass to their head, again, making this a very unlikely scenario.
So what were talking about happened to 2.5% of the people in this study, making it highly unlikely, or as you would say, implausible.
Hmmm, so it would seem that sometimes implausible things do happen, like say, someone's family member developing 4 different types of cancer.

See folks, you can lead a horse to water, and get them to drink.
Goodnight.

 

[themanwiththeplan]

yeah its a tall order for the first grow. i read through the 1st page and agree with a lot of what was said.

ideally you need at least 1 lb of cannabis. you want something high in CBD and THC preferably. not to say you cant grow different strains and make oil from them all.

i personally BELIEVE in the rick simpson oil. i know others said they dont but its hard to ignore the various people who don't use cannabis who made youtube videos trying to spread the word saying cannabis helped them. it completely makes sense that cannabis oil could work...especially when you see it used as an effective treatment for skin cancer (simply by applying it topically instead of eating it).


for lights you're gonna need at least 2 600w hps lights for 1 1000w hps. thats minimum. if you're a noob you may want to go even heavier on the lights because your yield wont be so great the first couple grows. my first grow netted me about 0.30g-0.40g per watt. so keep that in mind.

you're gonna need a good sized room. possibly something the size of a whole bedroom mattering on how big you go but no way this happens in a closet or attic w/o serious risk of fire.

outdoor growing season is knocking on the door for most of the USA growers. if indoor growing on such a level isnt possible consider growing outside. in the right conditions outdoors 1-2lbs per plant isnt impossible at all. the key is to plant them indoors first and allow them to build up a moderate root system before putting them outside to brave the conditions. outdoors may not be the way to go if your family member doesnt "have much time to live" since plants wont be ready for harvest till the fall.

so its a slippery slope. unless you absolutely CANT grow this big indoors that would be my advice.

i think its do-able and very noble of you to do.


I bet you $100 if you post a grow journal and title it "help me get enough bud to save my family member from death on my 1st grow" that there will be some kind folks who will be willing to walk you through your first grow and help you diagnose plant problems and keep your plants on track so you get a solid harvest of some life saving bud(oil)

i know id check out your journal and help out.

 

[Nightmarecreature]

I don't know why? But every high CBD strain I have tried smells just like horse shit.

 

[Natural Gas]

I don't know why? But every high CBD strain I have tried smells just like horse shit.

Night, You might want to try Juanita la Lagimosa by Reggae Ceeds...Try to get to it before the horse does...Generally, when I smell horse shit it is because I am standing next to a horse's ass...Just my personal experience; not trying to cast aspersions...FWIW

 

[+ WitchDoctor +]

Hi, I'm a little late to this debate and I don't have time to read all the pages...but if the argument is that cannabis doesn't kill cancer or stop tumor growth in humans, that's absolutely ridiculous. Lol. Most of the research that made the modern "medicine" the medical industry uses was done on animals, as well as most of the products we use in life. There's a reason we use rodent models for everything.

And to say that separate cancers wouldn't occur throughout the body also seems like an ignorant statement to me considering almost ever single person has cancer cells in their body.

LATEST CANCER INFORMATION
from Johns Hopkins

AFTER YEARS OF TELLING PEOPLE CHEMOTHERAPY IS THE ONLY WAY TO TRY AND ELIMINATE CANCER, JOHNS HOPKINS IS FINALLY STARTING TO TELL YOU THERE IS AN ALTERNATIVE WAY …


1. Every person has cancer cells in the body. These cancer cells do not show up in the standard tests until they have multiplied to a few billion. When doctors tell cancer patients that there are no more cancer cells in their bodies after treatment, it just means the tests are unable to detect the cancer cells because they have not reached the detectable size.

2. Cancer cells occur between 6 to more than 10 times in a person's lifetime.

3. When the person's immune system is strong the cancer cells will be destroyed and prevented from multiplying and forming tumors.

4. When a person has cancer it indicates the person has multiple nutritional deficiencies. These could be due to genetic, environmental, food and lifestyle factors.

5. To overcome the multiple nutritional deficiencies, changing diet and including supplements will strengthen the immune system.

6. Chemotherapy involves poisoning the rapidly-growing cancer cells and also destroys rapidly-growing healthy cells in the bone marrow, gastro-intestinal tract etc, and can cause organ damage, like liver, kidneys, heart, lungs etc.

7. Radiation while destroying cancer cells also burns, scars and damages healthy cells, tissues and organs.

8. Initial treatment with chemotherapy and radiation will often reduce tumor size. However prolonged use of chemotherapy and radiation do not result in more tumor destruction.

9. When the body has too much toxic burden from chemotherapy and radiation the immune system is either compromised or destroyed, hence the person can succumb to various kinds of infections and complications.

10. Chemotherapy and radiation can cause cancer cells to mutate and become resistant and difficult to destroy. Surgery can also cause cancer cells to spread to other sites.


11. An effective way to battle cancer is to STARVE the cancer cells by not feeding it with foods it needs to multiple.

What cancer cells feed on:

a. Sugar is a cancer-feeder. By cutting off sugar it cuts off one important food supply to the cancer cells. Note: Sugar substitutes like NutraSweet, Equal, Spoonful, etc are made with Aspartame and it is harmful. A better natural substitute would be Manuka honey or molasses but only in very small amounts. Table salt has a chemical added to make it white in colour. Better alternative is Bragg's aminos or sea salt.


b. Milk causes the body to produce mucus, especially in the gastro-intestinal tract. Cancer feeds on mucus. By cutting off milk and substituting with unsweetened soy milk, cancer cells will starved.

c. Cancer cells thrive in an acid environment. A meat-based diet is acidic and it is best to eat fish, and a little chicken rather than beef or pork. Meat also contains livestock antibiotics, growth hormones and parasites, which are all harmful, especially to people with cancer.

d. A diet made of 80% fresh vegetables and juice, whole grains, seeds, nuts and a little fruits help put the body into an alkaline environment. About 20% can be from cooked food including beans. Fresh vegetable juices provide live enzymes that are easily absorbed and reach down to cellular levels within 15 minutes t o nourish and enhance growth of healthy cells.

To obtain live enzymes for building healthy cells try and drink fresh vegetable juice (most vegetables including bean sprouts) and eat some raw vegetables 2 or 3 times a day. Enzymes are destroyed at temperatures of 104 degrees F (40 degrees C).

e. Avoid coffee, tea, and chocolate, which have high caffeine. Green tea is a better alternative and has cancer-fighting properties. Water--best to drink purified water, or filtered, to avoid known toxins and heavy metals in tap water. Distilled water is acidic, avoid it.

12. Meat protein is difficult to digest and requires a lot of digestive enzymes. Undigested meat remaining in the intestines will become putrified and leads to more toxic buildup.

13. Cancer cell walls have a tough protein covering. By refraining from or eating less meat it frees more enzymes to attack the protein walls of cancer cells and allows the body's killer cells to destroy the cancer cells.

14. Some supplements build up the immune system (IP6, Flor-ssence, Essiac, anti-oxidants, vitamins, minerals, EFAs etc.) to enable the body's own killer cells to destroy cancer cells. Other supplements like vitamin E are known to cause apoptosis, or programmed cell death, the body's normal method of disposing of damaged, unwanted, or unneeded cells.

15. Cancer is a disease of the mind, body, and spirit. A proactive and positive spirit will help the cancer warrior be a survivor.

Anger, unforgiving and bitterness put the body into a stressful and acidic environment. Learn to have a loving and forgiving spirit. Learn to relax and enjoy life.

16. Cancer cells cannot thrive in an oxygenated environment. Exercising daily, and deep breathing help to get more oxygen down to the cellular level. Oxygen therapy is another means employed to destroy cancer cells.

Here's some links to quite a few cannabis/cancer study compilations if anybody wants more. Might even find a "human" study in their.
http://samsnyder.com/2012/04/page/2/
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=243468
http://mct.aacrjournals.org/content/8/11/3117.full

 

[+ WitchDoctor +]

To the OP, I can help you with your question about high CBD strains in relation to cancer.

I grow Cannatonic for my wife. She was suffering from HPV cervical and anal cancer, and the anal cancer was being diagnosed as anal fizzures without being scoped for over a year. She also suffers from PTSD and mood disorders, so strains higher in THC make her very paranoid and delusional, she can't use them at all.

She was not only able to use the Cannatonic to kill her cancers, but she was also able to ween off of her Lamictal that they had her on and now she uses Cannatonic oil as her only medication for...everything. There are several phenotypes, so I'd recommend popping all seeds and going with the best pheno.

Also, it doesn't smell like typical cannabis strains do when it's smoked and grown. Has more of a hashy insense type of smell. And it's easy to grow.

Anyways, I take the dried flowers and trim leaves and I make dry ice hash (kief). Then I put the kief in a crock pot with coconut oil and a little cinnamon and vanilla flavoring for about an hour, and let it cool.

She took the oil several times a day for a few months. The cervical cells seemed to disappear faster than the anal cells, but it all disappeared within 3 months. Then she stopped using the oil when she felt the problem was resolved, and after a few months she started to have a little pain again and started back on the oil. After that she weened off the bi-polar meds and continues the oil and there has been no re-occurance of the HPV cancers so far.

A friend of mine is also using the same oil to attempt to shrink and kill the tumors in his neck and the roof of his mouth. No significant results yet except that the pain is completely gone, but it's only been a month and he's still smoking cigarettes lol.

Good luck to you, and let me know if you have any questions about the Cannatonic. We haven't tried any other high CBD strains yet, but this one has proven amazing.

Oh, and in case this is helpful, here's a study about how CBD works together with THC to sort of magnify it's cancer killing properties.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=cbd+thc+synergisticly

 

[Slipon]

a lot of good info there Doc thanks I´ll tell my Mom, she had cancer a few years back but is Cancer "free" now

 

[+ WitchDoctor +]

Hey Slip! Good to hear she beat it. And she's got you around if it comes back ;]

 

[Slipon]

yea I must have spend days in the hospital, thanks God its like 4Km from my house so could get over there like every day after work wile she had chemotherapy and after the operation to remove the Golf`s size cancer ball in here foot and thanks God we have the same medic care for every citizens here in Denmark, or Im not sure she be here to day or atleast have her foot/leg and is able to walk and drive almost normally to day, now she go to check up every year (begining every 1/2 year) but so fare no cancer cells have spread and its +3 years ago

Cancer sucks !

 

[All 4 Outdoor]

The doctor from greenhouse will knock u out for 4 hours and sadhu from mandala is the greatest medi weed I've found ever. A beautiful, stress relieving high and easy to cope with, no paranioa whatsoever... hope this helps?

 

[Figong]

-snip-
I bet you $100 if you post a grow journal and title it "help me get enough bud to save my family member from death on my 1st grow" that there will be some kind folks who will be willing to walk you through your first grow and help you diagnose plant problems and keep your plants on track so you get a solid harvest of some life saving bud(oil)

No need to bet, I'm already on board for this.. unless/until the OP decides that everything shared is 'wrong' and they can be the only one right. Am sure there's a few others sub'd for this as well.