Neem oil and nutes

[niskos]

I recently had an infestation of fungus knats. I learned a few grows ago not to put anything outside that you are using for an indoor grow. Unfortunately, my roommate moved my bag of soil outside for a couple days about 2 months ago. I did not think about it or even think the one flying bug that appeared in my grow room had anything to do with the soil I used to repot my plants. Regardless, it is a month and a half later and a few days ago it was obvious that there was a full infestation.

As of now, it is under control. I got a hotshot no pest-strip, which I learned about on here. It WILL kill anything in the vicinity. It will not kill the larvae and knats living in soil.
About two days ago I sealed every container with masking tape. It worked very well, nothing could come in and out. The hotshot worked slow but I can see them dropping off the leaves and onto the masking tape. I noticed they like to drown in my coffee so I put a fresh cup of coffee in there two days ago and I honestly believe it is the biggest help of everything. Dozens were in there. I also put soda caps of honey which also killed quite a few.
I just soaked everything in neem oil solution and saturated the soil and reapplied the masking tape, they were alive in the plants that had received the most nitrogen.

At this point I would guess there are less than ten in all my plants, but I know the larvae is in there and I will continue to apply neem oil.

Now for my question lol, I have been combating this for a week now and I had a regimen of nutes. I have not been able to apply nutes or water the plants due to what I've read and gathered. Can my foxfarm veg nutes mix with the neem oil? and if so is it smart to do that if they feed on nitrogen?

 

[fir3dragon]

When I get gnats I let my plants dry out good and remove all water from around the area. They are in the dirt because its moist let it dry and they should flee

 

[niskos]

Even if the moist water is saturated in neem oil? The plants are dry, not bone dry but dry. MY main plant got more of it than anything and its slightly moistened now

 

[fir3dragon]

I let mine dry until I notice a droop. When they are a little droopy I notice no gnats. This is personal experience so let others chime in. I never used neem or no pest strip. Just let all plants dry until a little droop and then water slightly until it starts to come out bottom then stop. I'm gonna keep looking for others feedback on here case I'm wrong


I also notice soil with bark usually has gnats so avoid that

 

[niskos]

bump, today the infestation seems to be doing better, for them. Im at a loss right now, not sure what to do

 

[Adjorr]

trying getting some potatoe slices and putting them in your pots by the stem. the gnats larva will instictivly prefer the potatoe to your plants root. change the slice everyday before it dries out. you can see the larva squirming around on the potatoe slice, its kinda gross lol but it works. your basicly luring the larva out of the soil then tossing them in the trash. it worked for me every day for a week i did this and i gave my plants a drench with some oil i got from the hydro shop. havent seen any gnats since

 

[niskos]

thats a great idea, ive been seein them in different stages. honestly, this is some gross shit. maybe you can answer my question. should i drench the entire pot with neem oil, even though it will moisten the soil too?

 

[RIKNSTEIN]

bump, today the infestation seems to be doing better, for them. Im at a loss right now, not sure what to do

Keep mixing your neem oil 4 teaspoons per gallon and mix a teaspoon of an eco friendly dish soap w/it, dawn is fine, then add your nutes like regular....the neem oil will work from the inside as a natural insecticide...here it's long but read this..

Neem Oil
Neem oil does work, but the way it works is different from other insecticides. Neem is not an instant, knock down,kill everything pesticide. Neem oil affects insects in many different,ingenious and subtle ways.
How neem oil messes with the insects’ brains and bodies
Neem oil has many complex active ingredients. Rather than being simple poisons, those ingredients are similar to the hormones that insects produce. Insects take up the neem oil ingredients just like natural hormones.
Neem enters the system and blocks thereal hormones from working properly. Insects “forget” to eat, to mate, or they stop laying eggs. Some forget that they can fly. If eggs are produced they don’t hatch, or the larvae don’t moult.
Obviously insects that are too confused to eat or breed will not survive. The population eventually plummets, and they disappear. The cycle is broken.
How precisely it works is difficult for scientists to find out. There are too many different active substances in neem oil, and every insect species reacts differently to neem insecticide. Neem oil does not hurt beneficial insects. Only chewing and sucking insects are affected. It is certainly fascinating.
Like real hormones, neem oil insecticide works at very low concentrations, in the parts per million range. A little neem oil goes a long way.
But this is not something that happens over night. People use neem oil as an insecticide, and expect everything to die instantly, because that’s what they are used to from chemical poisons. When that does not happen they conclude neem insecticide does not work.
How neem oil deters chewing and sucking insects
There is a nice story that demonstrates how grasshoppers react to neem oil insecticide. It goes something like this: Someone did an experiment. It involved two jars, two leaves, and two grasshoppers. One leaf was sprayed with a chemical insecticide, and one with neem oil. The two grasshoppers were put in the two jars, with one leaf each.
The first grasshopper ate the leaf and died almost instantly. The grasshopper with the neem oil covered leaf did not touch the leaf and lived. At least for a few days. Eventually it starved to death.
Neem stops insects from eating the plants.
Part of this action is due to to the hormone like action of neem oil that I explained above. Insects “forget” to eat after they’ve been in contact with even traces of neem oil.
But it is also the presence, the mere hint of a smell of neem oil, that seems to be enough to keep leaf eating insects away. Neem oil can be very powerful as an anti-feedant and insect repellent.
This anti-feedant property is one of the most often advertised and lauded properties of neem oil insecticide. However, the hormonal effects I described above are even stronger.
Neem oil as an insect deterrent works well against grasshoppers and leafhoppers, but all other insect pests are controlled mostly through the hormone action.
The subtlety of the hormonal effects, and the fact that they may take days or weeks to manifest, makes people overlook them. Ill informed gardeners seek instant gratification, i.e. lots of dead insects immediately, rather than a balanced environment in the long run.
It’s a shame, because the hormonal effect is where the real power of neem oil lies. It’s the key to neem oil being an effective insecticide and good for the environment at the same time. It’s also important to understand this effect to use neem oil insecticide correctly.
Neem oil works from inside the plant
Many insecticides break down quickly.They wash away with rain, or when irrigating, or the sunlight destroys them.You either have to spray all the time, or you have to spray something that’s so stable that it stays around forever. That means the chemical builds up everywhere and eventually poisons everything, including you.
Neem oil breaks down very quickly, too. It is especially susceptible to UV light. But neem oil is also a systemic insecticide. That means you can pour it on the soil (not pure neem oil of course, you use a dilution or extract) and the plants absorb it. They take it up into their tissue, and it works from the inside. A leaf hopper may take acouple of bites, but that’s it.
However, this does not work for all insect species. The neem ingredients accumulate in the tissues deeper inside the plant. The phloem, the outer most layer, contains hardly any. A tiny aphid feeds from the phloem, it can not penetrate deep enough to get a dose of neem. But any leaf hoppers, grass hoppers or similar chomping insects will be incapacitated quickly.
People eat neem leaves to cleanse the blood, stimulate the liver, and boost the immune system. So we certainly don’t need to worry about a bit of neem inside our lettuce leaves. To me this is a much more attractive option than having poisonous foulicides build up in mygarden.
Neem oil suffocates insects
Many gardeners use white oil (plain mineral oil) or even olive oil to combat soft bodied insects like aphids,thrips or whitefly. The oil coats the bugs and they suffocate. Neem oil insecticide does that as well. But it’s more like a little bonus on top of everything else it does.
It can be a hazard, though. Of course there is no difference between suffocating good or bad bugs. Oil suffocates anything. So this aspect can harm beneficial insects!
Neem oil and beneficial insects
Neem is non toxic for beneficial insects. The main reason is that insects need to ingest the neem oil to be affected, and beneficial insects don’t eat your plants. But you can still kill beneficial insects if you smother them with neem oil, so please be careful.
Beneficial insects are most active during the day. The best time to spray neem insecticide is very early in the morning, so the spray can dry before the good insects become active. Also a good time is the late afternoon or evening. Once the spray has dried it does not harm your bees, ladybugs, lacewings, predatory mites and wasps etc.

 

[niskos]

thats a great piece of information, thank you very much, so applying the neem for a week should get rid of everything with a few stragglers?

 

[RIKNSTEIN]

thats a great piece of information, thank you very much, so applying the neem for a week should get rid of everything with a few stragglers?

No you have to keep aplying weekly, and I use it with all my plants now and they love it. I foiliar spray an hour after lights out so it will set on the leaves and they can soak it up over time instead of evaporating if you put it on them right after lights out, if that makes sense..lol...so once a week I feed w/nuted neem oil (I water and feed them regularly in between) , Ive reduced to 2 teaspoons per gal cuz ive been doing it for a month now...here take a look..

View attachment 2584209View attachment 2584210View attachment 2584211 6 days in 12/12..Blue Rhino saved from bugs..lol

 

[vilify]

cedar oil / gognats.
works every time.

 

[RIKNSTEIN]

cedar oil / gognats.
works every time.

Yes it will, but, use neem oil for a month, and you can and it is suggested that you water with neem oil, cuz it works from inside the plant, my plants love it, and with neem oil there is no "every time"...And if you water with it from the get-go (as I'm learning) you won't get bugs at all...

 

[niskos]

Beautiful plants man, you answered my question. these things suck, truly. They are just a nuisance. I want to make sure they are at least completely under control by flowering

 

[AimAim]

I'm sold on Neem Oil too. It's super safe and sometimes marketed as "leaf polish"

http://www.amazon.com/Dyna-Gro-Nem-032-Neem-Polish-1-Quart/dp/B000FFA08C/ref=sr_1_3?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1364246508&sr=1-3&keywords=leaf+polish

As a preventative measure I put it in my foliar spray a couple times a week. They love it. Also got a no-pest-strip hanging and all fans go off right after lights out for 1 hour so the strip can do it's thing and fumigate the room. Also some sticky traps laid out just to monitor. Anyway doing these three simple preventative measures have kept me clean so far.

 

[niskos]

okay one more question, the soil on my plants is about bone dry. i want to start watering with nutes but dont want to compound the problem with saturated soil. Is it okay or even smart to do this? or should i wait? its going on a week+ without watering/nutes.

 

[LadyZandra]

Easiest way to prevent fungus gnats without adding sprays/soil drench... blue and yellow sticky trap cards, Diatomeceous earth and sand...
Sand? YUP!
A bag of coarse clean playground sand (or winter 'tube sand') mixed with a touch of Diatomeceous earth is really handy- just put 1-2inches of the sand mix on top of the soil... the gnats can't won't lay eggs in it or tunnel thru to the soil... the Diatomeceous earth prevents it... it also helps prevent soil-splash when you water, and is non -toxic doesn't leach into the plant etc.... it works by acting like little razorblades to the bugs!!!!! Wear a mask so you do not breathe in the powder--seems nice & soft but cuts-up soft tissues as well as bug carapaces!!


Don't let them get bone dry-- feed 1x a week enough liquid so some leaks out the bottom- then do not feed again til next week-- water between only if they get dry.

 

[niskos]

Just wanted to follow up on this, the neem oil worked but too slow in my opinion. The plants actually seem to love it and the scent alone will make the fungus knats noticeably disoriented, not flying, flying into traps, dropping dead, not burrowing, not breeding, etc. The only prob is that the larvae in the soil were abundant and would resupply the adults daily. I finally said screw that and went to get some sand. Could only find 40-50 pound bags of sand or small bags with clay or calcium in it. So I opted for perlite. I crushed it up and put 2 inches on top of the soil of each plant. Before that I drenched the soil with nutes and neem oil. Havent seen anything for two days and the last couple simply dropped dead. In my opinion that alone is all you need to do. I have a very small space and although my infestation was not huge, it was for the space. Perlite/neem oil and thats it. Lesson learned.

 

[zack66]

A cup of coffee loaded with sugar right in the grow room will take care of alot of the adults. I use neem and dawn dish soap every couple weeks as a preventative. Spray the plants and soil. Also, spray the drain holes on your pots.