jamesvagabond
Well-Known Member
Shiezer! Well thanks for the input, maybe they have lower flow rates available in this setup. Happy Holidays!
Air-Assisted Atomizer System Development and Inquiry
- Thread starter jamesvagabond
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jamesvagabond
Well-Known Member
F*ck it, if I am going to do it, I am going to do it right from the start. I'll go with the Bete XA's that I got quoted for. I tried talking to all the companies and BETE had the best customer service. Dude man talked to me for over an hour to help me with finding the right nozzle. I tend to judge a company by their customer service, especially tech service departments.
SS set up will run about 274 per nozzle, and I am thinking 11 or 12 will do me right but I hope to evoke the great wisdom of Atomizer for this. My setup will be 12 site chamber with the dimensions of 12ftWx16ftLx4ftDeep. The nozzles will be setback another 16 inches outside the chamber so only the cloudy plume of mist contacts the roots and not the pressure cone mist. So, a giant rectangle, with two nozzles on the 12 foot sides, in between the three plants. Then three nozzles on each 16 foot face in between the four plants.
I just realized that this design will make it hard to check on the roots in the middle of the chamber so I need to design it to be 2-2x3 plant site chambers. So make that two 8ftx12 foot chambers: 2plantsx3plants. Now I am at a loss as to the nozzle layout. It almost seems like I should go with more nozzles. AAAH nevermind. To make my chambers more compatible with a perpetual grow I am going to build three separate 2plantx2plant flower chambers. So 8x8ft chambers. This will make it easier to deliver the proper nutrient doses depending on where they are at in the cycle. Each chamber will be spaced three weeks apart. So as each group matures per 3 weeks, a new group will move in from veg, ad infinitum. I like this design better as it will be much easier to keep track and feed the plants. And if there is anything we have learned from this society is that anything centralized is bound to collapse under its own mass.
So maybe the roots would benefit best if the nozzles were positioned in the bottom of each corner of the chamber angled upwards. I am VERY interested in the idea of buying a bunch of marine 12v circulatory fans for the chambers. They will benefit as is, but I am interested in figuring out a way to mount the nozzle itself to the rotary motor and delivering a rotary spray. I don't have one in front of me, and how do I work with hard pressure lines and a rotary delivery system, is something I can't get my head around yet.
Has anyone else played with this idea before?
Time to build up the greenhouse. I am walling it off in the middle of a 40 ft x 14ft greenhouse, in between my food crops. None of this sprouts until I get my card but I want to have all the pieces in place to make the most of what I have.
SS set up will run about 274 per nozzle, and I am thinking 11 or 12 will do me right but I hope to evoke the great wisdom of Atomizer for this. My setup will be 12 site chamber with the dimensions of 12ftWx16ftLx4ftDeep. The nozzles will be setback another 16 inches outside the chamber so only the cloudy plume of mist contacts the roots and not the pressure cone mist. So, a giant rectangle, with two nozzles on the 12 foot sides, in between the three plants. Then three nozzles on each 16 foot face in between the four plants.
I just realized that this design will make it hard to check on the roots in the middle of the chamber so I need to design it to be 2-2x3 plant site chambers. So make that two 8ftx12 foot chambers: 2plantsx3plants. Now I am at a loss as to the nozzle layout. It almost seems like I should go with more nozzles. AAAH nevermind. To make my chambers more compatible with a perpetual grow I am going to build three separate 2plantx2plant flower chambers. So 8x8ft chambers. This will make it easier to deliver the proper nutrient doses depending on where they are at in the cycle. Each chamber will be spaced three weeks apart. So as each group matures per 3 weeks, a new group will move in from veg, ad infinitum. I like this design better as it will be much easier to keep track and feed the plants. And if there is anything we have learned from this society is that anything centralized is bound to collapse under its own mass.
So maybe the roots would benefit best if the nozzles were positioned in the bottom of each corner of the chamber angled upwards. I am VERY interested in the idea of buying a bunch of marine 12v circulatory fans for the chambers. They will benefit as is, but I am interested in figuring out a way to mount the nozzle itself to the rotary motor and delivering a rotary spray. I don't have one in front of me, and how do I work with hard pressure lines and a rotary delivery system, is something I can't get my head around yet.
Has anyone else played with this idea before?
Time to build up the greenhouse. I am walling it off in the middle of a 40 ft x 14ft greenhouse, in between my food crops. None of this sprouts until I get my card but I want to have all the pieces in place to make the most of what I have.
im glad were spending your money and not mine
you must be rich as hell, wish i was in your position.
nothing like dropping many thousand dollars on something you dont even know is gonna work as you expect it will
why not build one chamber with 2 nozzles to test first, and then go from there, and run the rest of the greenhouse using something that you know is going to provide you with consistent results
regardless im interested in seeing how it goes.
you must be rich as hell, wish i was in your position.nothing like dropping many thousand dollars on something you dont even know is gonna work as you expect it will
why not build one chamber with 2 nozzles to test first, and then go from there, and run the rest of the greenhouse using something that you know is going to provide you with consistent results
regardless im interested in seeing how it goes.
jamesvagabond
Well-Known Member
Ha, not at ALL, I am doing this paycheck by paycheck, I just have a really cheap lifestyle. I am hoping this will help me with money though!im glad were spending your money and not mine
nothing like dropping many thousand dollars on something you dont even know is gonna work as you expect it will
why not build one chamber with 2 nozzles to test first, and then go from there, and run the rest of the greenhouse using something that you know is going to provide you with consistent results
regardless im interested in seeing how it goes.
jamesvagabond
Well-Known Member
One chamber at first is the plan for sure. I have a good month and a half or 2 before I would need to expand my system to keep with the perpetual harvest. This is a good amount of time to determine whether the nozzles are doing their thing. I am doing this all in stages, slowly and surely. Well hopefully surely.
you had me worried for a minute there. which nozzles are you looking at specifically are they external or internal fed.? whats the model examples: XAAD XAER?
i feel you on the brokedom, im working 16hr days 6 days a week. this is my only day off. gotta get enough money together before my car completely disintegrates.
jamesvagabond
Well-Known Member
jamesvagabond
Well-Known Member
And for spaces sake I changed each chamber to host two plant sites: 4ftx8ft. So I can have two rows of three side by side and take up way less spaces.
interesting that the exact nozzle combination i was looking at. any idea what the cost of a nickel plated brass nozzle would be? as long as the tip is stainless i really could care less about the rest of the nozzle, besides the atomix purportedly used nickel plated brass
jamesvagabond
Well-Known Member
I got given a quote at 47.xx for Ni/brass but that was the 1/8s. Shouldn't be different in the 1/4 inlet.
My reasoning for going with SS is that it is a much harder material. The high pressures and abrasion through the minerals and other aspects in the media would likely create grooves int the brass over time. Nothing crazy or anything but I would imagine it would lead to inconsistencies in performance. I'd rather spend a grip now once then a whole bunch of low costs adding up only to end up going with SS in the end. I really hope I am wrong because it is so much cheaper, I could get 16 for the price of three SS nozzles! Starting to talk myself into giving it a try with brass...
wait am i reading this right did you say $47 for nickel/brass. at that price i can afford to ditch my delavan nozzles, and all there bullshit.as a matter of fact thats a few dollars cheaper than my all brass except for the tip delavan siphon nozzles.
did they give you any quantity discounts?
those nozzles hardly use any air compared to my delavans as well. i was using 2.88 M3/h. youd have to run some pretty high air pressures to use that kind of air with the XAAD 050 set up.
now im reinvigorated about AA aero, thank you.
those nozzles hardly use any air compared to my delavans as well. i was using 2.88 M3/h. youd have to run some pretty high air pressures to use that kind of air with the XAAD 050 set up.
now im reinvigorated about AA aero, thank you.
jamesvagabond
Well-Known Member
I just realized the quote for the 47 dollars were an impingement style, pretty sure at least....ill include a screenshot of the quote so you can cross reference...
The 249 or so price was for another setup. I didn't ask for those nozzles to be quoted but there was a miscommunication. Dunno if that still works for you.
that XAPR seems to be the same as what im looking for except it has a narrow angel air cap instead of a wide angel air cap . ill bet when fatman told me he was getting his bete nozzles for $45-50 he was talking about the brass/NI, not stainless. i think im going to request a quote for a 1/4XAAD050A02 and see what they say
indrhrvest
New Member
A little HPA porn for you guys...
looks slick. whats the price on one of your 4X8 root chambers? also what depth are they?
are you still running the pvc manifolds with the black teffens. if it turns out that very high root hair doenst lead to faster growth/ yield. im going to do something like your doing only with one large accumulator per several 4x8 chambers
indrhrvest
New Member
We are still working on a retail price, but for a system like this, probably around $3,500. The price on just the tray is going to be around $750, if we can get a large volume run, we can probably drop the price to $600. The trays come in both 32 cubic foot (12" deep), or a larger 64 cubic foot (24" deep). We also use HDPE, not ABS, so clean up is as simple as using a water hose and your thumb. You can clean a tray in under 5 minutes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9b7WvgxhpI
You could build your own PVC manifold, but our production versions will come with a stainless manifold. The 1/2 sized pipe tends to use more water than a 3/8's pipe size. We are still using the Teffens. They've proven the most reliable. We also have our nozzles pointed up.. not down. We still get decent root hair growth. Decent enough to grow Romaine to .31 lbs (over 1/4 lbs) in under 28 days (24-25 days with 24/0 light cycle. The system used 11 gallons a day drain to waste, or 3 gallons per plant. That's almost half what recirculatng systems achieve (6-7 gallons). We've spent close to $50K on R&D so far getting this right.
Here's some root porn.
28 Days for lettuce..
jamesvagabond
Well-Known Member
I agree, does look nice. Not trying to be a dick but I am not sure that what works for lettuce, especially what accommodates their roots, might not work for what a lot of us are trying. If you could have an "independent" tester post a detailed grow journal, I think your product will be a lot more readily received. *hand is raised
We are still working on a retail price, but for a system like this, probably around $3,500. The price on just the tray is going to be around $750, if we can get a large volume run, we can probably drop the price to $600. The trays come in both 32 cubic foot (12" deep), or a larger 64 cubic foot (24" deep). We also use HDPE, not ABS, so clean up is as simple as using a water hose and your thumb. You can clean a tray in under 5 minutes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9b7WvgxhpI
You could build your own PVC manifold, but our production versions will come with a stainless manifold. The 1/2 sized pipe tends to use more water than a 3/8's pipe size. We are still using the Teffens. They've proven the most reliable. We also have our nozzles pointed up.. not down. We still get decent root hair growth. Decent enough to grow Romaine to .31 lbs (over 1/4 lbs) in under 28 days (24-25 days with 24/0 light cycle. The system used 11 gallons a day drain to waste, or 3 gallons per plant. That's almost half what recirculatng systems achieve (6-7 gallons). We've spent close to $50K on R&D so far getting this right.
Here's some root porn.
28 Days for lettuce..