HERBALTEA10
Active Member
does this mean you can have 6 flowering and 6 immature???
12 immature plants or 6 flowering????
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HERBALTEA10
Active Member
bump....................
method2mymadness
Well-Known Member
Yes u can have 12 plants total. Flower 6 and have 6 vedging or say u have 4 flowering plants u can keep 8 vedging plants etc
Bretz
Member
If you're referring to California prop 420, the quantity amounts were ruled unconstitutional in the case of the people of the state of California vs Patrick Kelly. Even if you hold an MMP Card the quantity limits are void. you are allowed to grow what you need for your condition.
Anything in sb420 that gives you a benefit stands, anything that limits is void.
420 is an example of how incompetent the state of California legislators are. Constitution 101, you can't modify the will of the people, that is unless the initiative is ruled unconstitutional.
I hear 420 referred to so many times I just had to say something. its a mis direct.
Anything in sb420 that gives you a benefit stands, anything that limits is void.
420 is an example of how incompetent the state of California legislators are. Constitution 101, you can't modify the will of the people, that is unless the initiative is ruled unconstitutional.
I hear 420 referred to so many times I just had to say something. its a mis direct.
kpmarine
Well-Known Member
^This, I really get tired of putting this on plant count threads in the CA section. Do your homework people! You have no business growing if you don't even know your own laws regarding it.
ReefBongwell
Well-Known Member
You guys are both right and wrong.
Over 12 plants is legal if you're able and willing to justify your medical need for that many plants in court after you've been arrested. You have to take your chances in court though if it comes to that. Keeping it under 12 you are SUPPOSED to not have to defend it in court, at least according to the state attorney general if you have the medical card. Your local PD can still arrest you and let you get dismissed in court if that's what they really want to do though, especially if you just have a recommendation and not the card. It'll almost surely get dismissed in court though from everything I've seen.
Over 12 plants is legal if you're able and willing to justify your medical need for that many plants in court after you've been arrested. You have to take your chances in court though if it comes to that. Keeping it under 12 you are SUPPOSED to not have to defend it in court, at least according to the state attorney general if you have the medical card. Your local PD can still arrest you and let you get dismissed in court if that's what they really want to do though, especially if you just have a recommendation and not the card. It'll almost surely get dismissed in court though from everything I've seen.
HERBALTEA10
Active Member
are you referring to me asking this question, I did look it up and the place where i received my card told me 12 immature, 6 flowering. I know you can grow as much as you need for your condition if you can prove it but I rather not have to prove it. When I looked up the law it was pretty vague and I wasn't sure if it allowed 12 veg because they would assume half would turn out to be male making 6 for flower or if you could have a total of 12 plants as long as no more than 6 are flowering.
ReefBongwell
Well-Known Member
I think he was referring to the person who answered the question - he didn't agree with their answer.
kpmarine
Well-Known Member
Yeah. sorry I was a bit testy that day. Local and state plant limits are technically not a legal limit. Now, it's more their established minimum for prosecution. If you don't want the legal risks, then stick to 12 mature plants total.
Bretz
Member
Kpmarine,
Are you saying I am out of line for stating that quantity limits are unconstitutional per the California Supreme Court? If so will you tell me factually what the plant count limits are per the highest court in California? and if you could point me to a county in California that has a written policy that violates my constitutional rights? The way a county, city etc. Loses it's sovereign immunity is if it violates my constitutional rights by it's written policy. I have 2 addresses in two different counties and I have not been able to find quantity amounts as a written policy. I have seen unofficial quantity amounts at CANORML but they have not returned my email where I have asked to be directed to the official publications showing the written policy for both counties I have addresses in.
Are your quantity amounts you claim derived from official county policy or are you using quantity limits in the gutter vernacular sense?
Kelly had plant quantities above those you claim are legal and he was right and I also believe he won. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
ReefBongwell
Well-Known Member
As far as the state court there is no limit as long as you can prove in court that you actually need that amount for medical reasons (not just because you want that much but NEED that much). As far as the local/state cops, 99 is the effective limit where they will start enforcing federal laws on you. If you end up in federal court the limit is 0.
Alright lets break out the straight up answers without politics so people don't come in here and become misguided.
The statewide minimum is 12 immature OR 6 mature...meaning if you have 6 flowering...that's it.
Check individual city and county laws for higher minimums as they do exist. I know san diego is one of them.
Can you get away with more than the state minimum? Yes
Should you grow 99 plants? No, not unless your doctor is going to come testify on your behalf and you've got money for a very good lawyer.
Truth of the matter is...whether you are growing 6 or 99....don't tell folks about your grow and dont steal electricity and you should be fine. Cops aren't concerned with the every day grower.
The statewide minimum is 12 immature OR 6 mature...meaning if you have 6 flowering...that's it.
Check individual city and county laws for higher minimums as they do exist. I know san diego is one of them.
Can you get away with more than the state minimum? Yes
Should you grow 99 plants? No, not unless your doctor is going to come testify on your behalf and you've got money for a very good lawyer.
Truth of the matter is...whether you are growing 6 or 99....don't tell folks about your grow and dont steal electricity and you should be fine. Cops aren't concerned with the every day grower.
Bretz
Member
As far as the "Feds" go they are straight outlaws doing business at the barrel of a gun. Most state "Law Enforcement" snub their nose at the will of the people. 99.9% of cops just do what their told having taken an oath to uphold the constitution but have never read the document let alone if they did read it they don't understand it. You would be hard pressed to find anyone who has an oath to state or fed constitutions that has read the thing.Here is a standard scam cities like San Diego put out to keep people confused by their slight of hand word game. This is the beginning of their ordinance regarding MMJ. This is what I copied from their .gov .PDF I found on their website. This eliminates all their quantity limits in the rest of the so-called ordinance/municipal code.It says clearly that the ordinance shall be interpreted according to state law. State law is CA vs Patrick Kelly....period when it comes to quantity. Kelly refused to be punked,........,................§42.1301 Article 2: Health Regulated Businesses and Activities Division 13: Medical Marijuana Regulations: Patients and Caregivers (San Diego Medical Cannabis Voluntary Verification Card Program added 2252002 by O19036 N.S. (Retitled to Medical Marijuana Regulations: Patients and Caregivers and amended 4-27-2011 by O-20043 N.S.; effective 5-27-2011.) Purpose and Intent (a) (b) (c) (d) It is the intent of the Council to adopt regulations consistent with California Health and Safety Code section 11362.5 (Compassionate Use Act) and California Health and Safety Code sections 11362.7-11362.83 (Medical Marijuana Program), to protect the public health, safety, and welfare. Nothing in this Division is intended to override a peace officers judgment and discretion based on a case-by-case evaluation of the totality of the circumstances, or to interfere with a peace officers sworn duty to enforce applicable law. Nothing in this Division is intended to reduce the rights of a qualified patient or primary caregiver otherwise authorized by California Health and Safety Code section 11362.5(d). This Division shall be interpreted in a manner consistent with state law. Nothing in this Division is intended to authorize the sale, distribution, possession of marijuana, or any other transaction, in violation of state law. (Amended 9292003 by O19218 N.S.) (Amended 4-27-2011 by O-20043 N.S.; effective 5-27-2011.)
kpmarine
Well-Known Member
I don't even know how you could construe it that way. I responded to the OP apologizing for the annoyance I directed at him/her. Context, my friend.
Bretz
Member
KP
I don't know about him/her, but you definitely called me out by saying this:
Then you half assed admitted your wrong by saying this:
So now, you come off with a new statement as though its true by saying this:
Hmm!Can you show me the statute/ordinance showing factually"their" established minimum for prosecution? Maybe there's a memo floating around or something.
I think what is going on here is that you are scared. When reality(facts/truth) contradicts your belief system the chaos inside you, forces you, to rationalize the differences away. Its called cognitive dissonance, really...google it and you will find out a little about yourself. Don't feel alone, all 12 to 6 guys suffer from it. It is fear and lack of knowledge based, an emotional response to something that just doesn't fit with you and your perception of reality, or in this case a lack theirof (reality). It is pretty scary to think that you could end up in the crow bar motel because you don't know what your doing, because you don't know law.
Patrick Kelly stood up for himself, a guy in a wheel chair took them on! In away he did it for all of us. I find it a shame that he would take the risk, put his ass on the line just to have the scared 12 to 6 guys spout off and make light of his sacrifice simply because they don't know what they are talking about.
^Thelast paragraph leads us to this. BTW I like the arrow up thing you did ^:
and not just know your own laws but also quit being lazy and learn law,actually know it. At least have a understanding of the process. The reason I am making a point here is firstly because I took exception to you being reckless towards me on a public forum, secondly, people will read this for years to come. I don't want people to think that the 12-6 issue is true, but rather see it for what it is, an emotional fear based response.
Here is my suggestion to remove some of your fear. I have a genuine interest in you and others empowering themselves so we all can beat back "Government" and their false sense of reality. Go to a bookstore and find something related to law 101, read and understand it so you have a basic understanding. Then find your county law library and go learn how to do legal research, my law library actually has a book that shows you how to move around in a law library, how to actually find controlling case sites to win your case. Teach yourself how to lay out a cause of action, grant the court persona and subject matter jurisdiction, do discovery, file motions. Learn what malfeasance is and how to spot it and how committing it with a firearm makes it a felony (Cop not having a statute of authority for what he's doing) and what to do if the "DA"is derelict and wants to protect his buddy in crime (Private Attorney General, Quo Warranto, Qui Tam). For example I took a state judge into federal court on a Declaratory Judgment suit. The “State”had to hire an outside law firm and the retainer for a federal attorney is 20 G's plus his bond took a hit, their only allowed 3 then they lose their insurance and that's the end of them. One time I had a judge and a bailiff literally run out of the courtroom, judges robe looked like a flag in the wind. Being well versed in law=Power.
Don't let some lawyer trade you in the back room (Judges Chamber) so the black robed super lawyer will find favor in him or because he wants to milk some other dupe he's representing that has more money by giving you up.
Yea it's a long one but the bottom line is stand up for your rights for crying out loud! and quit passing bad info.
I don't know about him/her, but you definitely called me out by saying this:
Then you half assed admitted your wrong by saying this:
So now, you come off with a new statement as though its true by saying this:
Hmm!Can you show me the statute/ordinance showing factually"their" established minimum for prosecution? Maybe there's a memo floating around or something.
I think what is going on here is that you are scared. When reality(facts/truth) contradicts your belief system the chaos inside you, forces you, to rationalize the differences away. Its called cognitive dissonance, really...google it and you will find out a little about yourself. Don't feel alone, all 12 to 6 guys suffer from it. It is fear and lack of knowledge based, an emotional response to something that just doesn't fit with you and your perception of reality, or in this case a lack theirof (reality). It is pretty scary to think that you could end up in the crow bar motel because you don't know what your doing, because you don't know law.
Patrick Kelly stood up for himself, a guy in a wheel chair took them on! In away he did it for all of us. I find it a shame that he would take the risk, put his ass on the line just to have the scared 12 to 6 guys spout off and make light of his sacrifice simply because they don't know what they are talking about.
^Thelast paragraph leads us to this. BTW I like the arrow up thing you did ^:
and not just know your own laws but also quit being lazy and learn law,actually know it. At least have a understanding of the process. The reason I am making a point here is firstly because I took exception to you being reckless towards me on a public forum, secondly, people will read this for years to come. I don't want people to think that the 12-6 issue is true, but rather see it for what it is, an emotional fear based response.
Here is my suggestion to remove some of your fear. I have a genuine interest in you and others empowering themselves so we all can beat back "Government" and their false sense of reality. Go to a bookstore and find something related to law 101, read and understand it so you have a basic understanding. Then find your county law library and go learn how to do legal research, my law library actually has a book that shows you how to move around in a law library, how to actually find controlling case sites to win your case. Teach yourself how to lay out a cause of action, grant the court persona and subject matter jurisdiction, do discovery, file motions. Learn what malfeasance is and how to spot it and how committing it with a firearm makes it a felony (Cop not having a statute of authority for what he's doing) and what to do if the "DA"is derelict and wants to protect his buddy in crime (Private Attorney General, Quo Warranto, Qui Tam). For example I took a state judge into federal court on a Declaratory Judgment suit. The “State”had to hire an outside law firm and the retainer for a federal attorney is 20 G's plus his bond took a hit, their only allowed 3 then they lose their insurance and that's the end of them. One time I had a judge and a bailiff literally run out of the courtroom, judges robe looked like a flag in the wind. Being well versed in law=Power.
Don't let some lawyer trade you in the back room (Judges Chamber) so the black robed super lawyer will find favor in him or because he wants to milk some other dupe he's representing that has more money by giving you up.
Yea it's a long one but the bottom line is stand up for your rights for crying out loud! and quit passing bad info.
kpmarine
Well-Known Member
I was agreeing with you. Why would I quote you and say I was tired of posting the same damn thing as you otherwise? I apologized to the OP for being testy, not you; because my annoyance was directed at people who don't know that plant counts are strong suggestions.
Fact is, counties still have minimums. They're not legally binding. But if a county didn't like you growing more than 12 plants before it was overturned; do you think they're not going to come sniffing around if you plant 60 plants? They can still prosecute you for cultivating more than your "medical need". Not saying they're going to start sniffing around just because your grow is a little big. I'm just saying that if playing it safe is the plan, then it behooves you not to piss off the locals. If the county didn't want you growing a forest before, they didn't magically change their minds now.
Sorry you got the wrong idea. My annoyance really was not directed at you.
Bretz
Member
KPMarine,
Thank you for taking the time to clear up the misunderstanding. I apologize for being harsh.
I think that those people doing business as government are out of control, especially those that have guns. We are being intimidated into giving up our rights even though we know and they know many of their codes are misapplied. They use our fear and lack of knowledge to take an unfair advantage of us. Usually the wealthy are the only ones that can afford justice. Understanding law is an integral part of my overall position regarding self defense, I go after them....hard! A guy who has helped understand law is Dr. Frederick Graves, he has a lot of info on the net. If a good chunk of people in the mmj movement took cops to court every time they looked at them wrong it would stop this mess and the courts would be clogged.
Thank you for taking the time to clear up the misunderstanding. I apologize for being harsh.
I think that those people doing business as government are out of control, especially those that have guns. We are being intimidated into giving up our rights even though we know and they know many of their codes are misapplied. They use our fear and lack of knowledge to take an unfair advantage of us. Usually the wealthy are the only ones that can afford justice. Understanding law is an integral part of my overall position regarding self defense, I go after them....hard! A guy who has helped understand law is Dr. Frederick Graves, he has a lot of info on the net. If a good chunk of people in the mmj movement took cops to court every time they looked at them wrong it would stop this mess and the courts would be clogged.
rarebreed619
Active Member
So im understanding this 12 is the max in san diego to keep it safe? Ive read all kinds of things from the place i got my rec and card saying unlimited, to the state guidelines of 6 mature 12 immature, all the way up to 24 in san diego county. So 12 would be a safe number?
potroastV2
Well-Known Member
Just like it has already been said numerous times, the plant number limits in SB420 have been found to be unconstitutional because the people did not vote on it. That is the 6 mature or 12 immature plants guidelines. So the law says that you can grow how ever many plants is required for you to supply yourself with your medicine.
San Diego city has an ordinance that allows 24 plants per patient, or 48 plants if you are a caregiver. So that is the guideline that the pigs are supposed to go by. That limit is probably considered unconstitutional by the same decision, but what matters is what the pigs will do.
In San Diego there is a court case this month where the pigs busted a patient who was growing 17 plants, so what really matters is how sadistic the pig is that is questioning you. The patient had to go through a grueling trial, but it ended in a hung jury, and was dismissed by the judge.
San Diego city has an ordinance that allows 24 plants per patient, or 48 plants if you are a caregiver. So that is the guideline that the pigs are supposed to go by. That limit is probably considered unconstitutional by the same decision, but what matters is what the pigs will do.
In San Diego there is a court case this month where the pigs busted a patient who was growing 17 plants, so what really matters is how sadistic the pig is that is questioning you. The patient had to go through a grueling trial, but it ended in a hung jury, and was dismissed by the judge.