Question for Teabaggers, Why Obama?

[ginwilly]

Yet it still resembles austerity more so than stimulus.

Wait, before I argue again over symantics I better ask why you think this. It resembles neither. That's like saying my Harley resembles a monkey more than it does sleeping bag. I don't know what you mean.

 

[abandonconflict]

It resembles neither.

I can agree with this conclusion. That does kind of debunk your current attack on stimulus and Keynesian economics though, nor am I suggesting a rabid defense of Keynesian economics, but I do see stimulus as the only thing that can make society less stratified in any form of capitalism.

 

[ginwilly]

Then you are an aggregate demand Keynesian.

Stimulus for the sake of stimulus is the opposite of austerity and very much fluid with Keynesian principles. The reason I say childlike is because you have to have the arrogance to think you can manipulate people's behavior in a consistent, predictable manner. You would have to believe then, that any 800B stimulus no matter what it contains or when it's implemented, will have the same outcomes. Teaching ball washing has the same effect economically as building a new bridge. Tattoo removal has the same value as buying livestock if the same money is spent.

We are operating on opinions, i understand this. Economics is more theory than actual science, but a sure way to understand the difficulties in predicting human behavior is to see what was predicted about the stimulus and what actually occurred.

We can look back at depressions and recessions all over the globe through any time period and see relationships to government spending and length of recovery and you will see a pattern. A pattern ignored by Keynesians because they would have to admit they were wrong. Not happening with the Krugman types.

 

[abandonconflict]

Then you are an aggregate demand Keynesian.

Stimulus for the sake of stimulus is the opposite of austerity and very much fluid with Keynesian principles. The reason I say childlike is because you have to have the arrogance to think you can manipulate people's behavior in a consistent, predictable manner. You would have to believe then, that any 800B stimulus no matter what it contains or when it's implemented, will have the same outcomes. Teaching ball washing has the same effect economically as building a new bridge. Tattoo removal has the same value as buying livestock if the same money is spent.

We are operating on opinions, i understand this. Economics is more theory than actual science, but a sure way to understand the difficulties in predicting human behavior is to see what was predicted about the stimulus and what actually occurred.

We can look back at depressions and recessions all over the globe through any time period and see relationships to government spending and length of recovery and you will see a pattern. A pattern ignored by Keynesians because they would have to admit they were wrong. Not happening with the Krugman types.

Length of recovery?

Are you joking?

This implies that stability is more of an aim than equality. Read it a few times to confirm that. The level of socioeconomic stratification can remain stable at an extreme and this is how Austrian economics works, the only benefit is cheap goods. It also makes no mention of the cause of recessions, only that it lengthens the recovery period (the time it takes until war debt is paid).

Power to the people. Foster the people. Austerity does neither.

 

[UncleBuck]

...*a sure way to understand the difficulties in predicting human behavior is to see what was predicted about the stimulus and what actually occurred.

that had nothing to do with human behavior and everything to do with bush's recession being revised to be much worse than what we thought it was at the time.

take your dishonest talking points and shove them directly up your ass. you're only fooling yourself, and maybe a few dimwits like nontheist.

pathetic.

 

[ginwilly]

that had nothing to do with human behavior and everything to do with bush's recession being revised to be much worse than what we thought it was at the time.

take your dishonest talking points and shove them directly up your ass. you're only fooling yourself, and maybe a few dimwits like nontheist.

pathetic.

you so funny..

So when we called it the worst economic crisis since the great depression what we really meant was that it was even worse than the worst.

speaking of dishonest talking points...

 

[ginwilly]

Btw Buck, Austrians were telling us how bad things were in 2006. Keynesians didn't believe them. Krugman told us to invest in financials and real estate and then said, oh, it was worse than we thought. No dumbass, it was worse than YOU thought.

 

[UncleBuck]

you so funny..

So when we called it the worst economic crisis since the great depression what we really meant was that it was even worse than the worst.

speaking of dishonest talking points...

you are either lying or dumber than shit, i can't tell.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aNivTjr852TI

i can find the same story from 20 other different sources, the recession was later revised to be even worse than we thought.

the recorded history i brought up is not dishonest just because you are uninformed or playing dumb.

 

[ginwilly]

So when Obama told us "We are in the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, and a lot of you I think are worried about your jobs, your pensions, your retirement accounts," to get elected, then repeated it to get the stimulus passed he thought he was lying but ended up right?

At the time the numbers were adjusted for the 4th qtr of 07', we were hearing the stimulus would work "next" summer. 2010 was promised to be the summer of recovery. Remember that saying? "Summer of Recovery". Had such a nice ring to it. It was a full year later before Bush was blamed for the stimulus's failure and we started hearing "think how bad it would be without it" instead.

We are in the worst 5 year period since the Great Depression. When are you fuckers going to own it? The slowest recovery on record since FDR. What did Obama and FDR have in common? A Govangelical approach with a lust for Keynesian economics.

 

[UncleBuck]

So when Obama told us "We are in the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, and a lot of you I think are worried about your jobs, your pensions, your retirement accounts," to get elected, then repeated it to get the stimulus passed he thought he was lying but ended up right?

you're an idiot, and trying to change the goal posts won't change the fact that you're an idiot.

let's go back to your original contention about the predictions about the stimulus being off: that was because they were based on a picture of the recession that was later revised to be worse than what we thought.

you can try to dance around that by changing the subject, but i will be right here to remind everyone that you are just being a dishonest, lying ass.

We are in the worst 5 year period since the Great Depression. When are you fuckers going to own it?

so you want obama to own a recession that was caused by the GOP?

you're among the most dishonest morons here, right up there with the yapping halfwits who say the earth is cooling and the SEC is not a federal agency.

 

[ginwilly]

After the 4th qtr was revised were the stimulus numbers also revised or did you guys stick with the 4million jobs saved or created? Hell you were still saying that last year even though the admin team had already stopped.

After the numbers were fixed did they stop the prediction of the "summer of recovery"?

After the numbers were fixed is when Krugman started writing about the brilliance of the implementation of the stimulus. Although he thought it was too small, he said that doing it the way Obama crafted it, it would occur mostly at the state level which puts money in the people's hands quicker. Last year Krugman came out with an article that says the reason the stimulus didn't work was because we tried to implement it at the state and it took too long to get money in the people's hands. You would like him.

I guess shovel ready didn't really mean shovel ready. Liked that one too.

 

[ginwilly]

We were told why we needed a stimulus, what the stimulus would do, and how it would work. When none of that happened it was Bush's fault. It's still Bush's fault 5 years later and will be Bush's fault 3 years from now when we are still in the slowest recovery on record.

Pathetic really.

 

[UncleBuck]

he gets caught in a lie and throws himself a little hissy fit.

how goddamn precious.

 

[ginwilly]

Show the lie you think I told. I never said the numbers from 2007 weren't adjusted. They were. The narrative went from we are in the worst financial crisis since the great depression to? did it change? We were still promised the summer of recovery, nobody said it wouldn't work now that we've adjusted numbers. When it didn't happen that's when it was Bush's fault again. Point out any untruths here.

You are trying to act like it didn't work because the numbers were worse than they thought when you were saying before the election the stimulus created or saved 4Million jobs. You thought it DID work because you were told it did. Now you are being told it didn't really work but it was Bush's fault. We knew those numbers in August of 2009. Waaaaaaaaaaaaay before the admitted failures.

 

[UncleBuck]

Show the lie you think I told.

a sure way to understand the difficulties in predicting human behavior is to see what was predicted about the stimulus and what actually occurred.*

the stimulus did work, the reason why it did not match predictions exactly wasn't because of human behavior but because the recession was worse than we thought.

have another hissy fit there!

 

[ginwilly]

the stimulus did work, the reason why it did not match predictions exactly wasn't because of human behavior but because the recession was worse than we thought.

have another hissy fit there!

So when did you first realize your predictions were going to be off? Because I recall you saying 4Million created or saved not too much before the election. What happened to our summer of recovery that was promised AFTER the numbers were adjusted? Why were your predictions never adjusted? we even have a website, recovery.gov that shows all of the jobs created. Or was that the jobs bill early years, or the jobs bills late years? Hell I can't tell, he's created about 20 million jobs now hasn't he?

Keynesian economic theory has run it's course and deserves to be filed away with unicorns and Marxism.

 

[ginwilly]

Buck, I hope you would stop and ponder this for a sec. If people like Krugman are right, and human behavior can be consistently manipulated and predicted, with the amount of inside information available to some, why aren't they trillionaires? Is it because only pure people have this knowledge? Why were Keynesians so wrong about financials and housing?

 

[UncleBuck]

Why were Keynesians so wrong?

the line suddenly went in the other direction after 2/2009. gee, i wonder why?

must be due to austrians. that's it. rawn pawl. love rawn pawl. suck rawn pawl cock for leisure.

yesyesyesyesyesyes

 

[MellowFarmer]

I am just curious as to why the Teabagger movement got so mobilized when Obama came into office? Where were the outcries for personal freedom when Bush was illegally wiretapping people? What about his starting the renditions and Guantanamo Bay? Why were they not calling for hearings about the intelligence failures that lead up to 9/11 as they are for the Benghazi attacks? Where was the concern about the economy as Bush destroyed it? Why weren't they worried when he just invaded countries and put it on credit? What about the allegations of cronyism with Halliburton getting government contracts and their ties to Cheney? Why didn't they ask to see the college transcripts of Bush?

Why didn't they rise up and politically attack Clinton? Or Reagan? Or Carter? What is so different about Obama? Why all teh concern for his birth certificate and place of birth? Why weren't they concerned about Mitt Romney whose family hated the USA and our family values they fled to drug cartel infested Mexico to practice their unGodly and un-American religious practices? Why didn't the Teabaggers demand his birth certificate and his transcripts? What is so different the them? What are your thoughts?

What is so different about Obama? What makes Reagan, Bush Sr., Clinton, and Bush Jr. different than Obama? I mean they are all men who went to good schools and rose to the presidency. I don't know what makes Obama so unique that the GOP and Republicans hate him so much? Why do they talk about the good old days and use flags from early on in US history when we were a slave owning misogynistic poor hating nation? It seems as if they think those were the good ol' days and reminisce about them and they try to emulate them while forgetting the horrors our nation inflicted upon the poor, women, blacks, and native peoples.

Either way I am rambling, but can any of the Conservatives shed some light on what makes Obama so terrifying to the GOP? Why do they use such vitriol when it comes to talking about him versus previous presidents (both Democrat and Republican because the Teabaggers are populists and not aligned with any political party according to many of them, which still doesn't explain why they all ran as Republicans in the recent elections). So why Obama?

You make very valid points and Bush and Cheney and all their cronies should be locked up for the rest of their miserable greedy lives however the fact is that now Obama is the puppet in charge and now they have taken even more of our freedoms away and not done anything about the crooks on wall st nor has he stopped the war on medicinal cannabis states as he promised. I honestly cannot think of one promise that he has kept, can you? Let us look forward at what we can do to change what is wrong now and not waste time pointing out who started it!

 

[Harrekin]

the line suddenly went in the other direction after 2/2009. gee, i wonder why?

must be due to austrians. that's it. rawn pawl. love rawn pawl. suck rawn pawl cock for leisure.

yesyesyesyesyesyes

Care to explain Q3 of 2010?

Oh yeah, it's Bush's fault...2 years after he left office.

And how come Rawn Pawl is spokesperson for anything non-Keynesian?

And how come austerity worked in Europe?

European GDP grew 0.7% total since 08 with austerity.

US GDP grew 1.3% by devaluing the dollar.

Who do you think will win when inflation is taken into account?