Impossible! The deficit is falling as well as unemployment Obama wrecking economy

[tokeprep]

double bullshit. when my grandfather died he had a sack of silver coins that weighed pretty close to 50 pounds, and it still didnt even scratch the taxes on the farm that we lost to the tax man because He Didnt Build That, even though my mother has got pictures of him actually building that.

he never let a silver coin pass his fingers, he had been hoarding them since the 40's, even though fdr said it was a crime. he sold a shitload of them to buy some land, and sold some more to buy materials for the house barn and fences that the government actually built, using what i assume was highly sophisticated robots designed to look exactly like my grandfather in the 60's, and he still saved them for the rest of his life and it served him well.

Thanks for your anecdotal story. My grandfathers didn't save any silver coins. I don't know anyone else who had a grandfather who saved silver coins. So much for anecdotal evidence.

if by some miracle the worm turns and you accountants and economics weenies are put in your rightful place, doing your sums by the light of a single guttering candle, chained to a dreary basement desk, then the rest of us can finally enjoy the american dream as envisioned by the founders, and as experienced by those who lived before 1913.

Rollitup, line up right now if you want to return to pre-1913 times in the United States. Would you like to live in a house that's less than 1,000 square feet? Would you like to give up your phone, computer, and internet? Would you like to give up your car? Your air conditioning? Your fridge? Your dishwasher? Your oven? Your washer and dryer? Your TV?

Line up, Rollitup! Kynes wants to transport you to 1913 so that you can live just as the founders did. Who wants to take the trip? Just remember, there's no coming back!

 

[Dr Kynes]

Thanks for your anecdotal story. My grandfathers didn't save any silver coins. I don't know anyone else who had a grandfather who saved silver coins. So much for anecdotal evidence.



Rollitup, line up right now if you want to return to pre-1913 times in the United States. Would you like to live in a house that's less than 1,000 square feet? Would you like to give up your phone, computer, and internet? Would you like to give up your car? Your air conditioning? Your fridge? Your dishwasher? Your oven? Your washer and dryer? Your TV?

Line up, Rollitup! Kynes wants to transport you to 1913 so that you can live just as the founders did. Who wants to take the trip? Just remember, there's no coming back!

so, for the sake of all the technological wonders which make our lives easier, EVERY ONE OF WHICH WE MUST PAY FOR WITH OUR SHRINKING WAGES AND DEFLATING CURRENCY we must submit to the foolish and destructive economic plans which pauper the saver to reward the investor, and we must submit to an endless cycle of rising prices, and meaningless jibber jabber about how good we got it, and wonder what ever happened to the idea of leaving your kids an inheritance.

what a wonderful plan you have concocted. it not only provides an endless stream of debtors to work the machines, and punishes those who manage to stay solvent, but it establishes the circumstances which ensure that every dollar stays in constant circulation, and thus is constantly taxed.

these are the REAL reasons for the fiat currency system and fractional reserve banking. the are designed to ensure that eventually, through the power of compound interest, the entire universe will belong to the banks and by extension the bankers and the investment class.

i do not wish to take anyone else's shit, nor do i wish to prohibit anyone from investing in whatever strikes their fancy, but YOU insist on forcing everyone else to join you in the casino whether they like it or not, and none of your assertions and excuses works for me. i will remain as i am, debt free and saving, rather than indebted and subservient to the system.

 

[tokeprep]

so, for the sake of all the technological wonders which make our lives easier, EVERY ONE OF WHICH WE MUST FOR WITH OUR SHRINKING WAGES AND DEFLATING CURRENCY we must submit to the foolish and destructive economic plans which pauper the saver to reward the investor, and we must submit to an endless cycle of rising prices, and meaningless jibber jabber about how good we got it, and wonder what ever happened to the idea of leaving your kids an inheritance.

Our wages haven't been shrinking since 1913 but increasing, even after reflecting all those price increases you're referring to. Nice try.

PAY
what a wonderful plan you have concocted. it not only provides an endless stream of debtors to work the machines, and punishes those who manage to stay solvent, but it establishes the circumstances which ensure that every dollar stays in constant circulation, and thus is constantly taxed.

these are the REAL reasons for the fiat currency system and fractional reserve banking. the are designed to ensure that eventually, through the power of compound interest, the entire universe will belong to the banks and by extension the bankers and the investment class.

i do not wish to take anyone else's shit, nor do i wish to prohibit anyone from investing in whatever strikes their fancy, but YOU insist on forcing everyone else to join you in the casino whether they like it or not, and none of your assertions and excuses works for me. i will remain as i am, debt free and saving, rather than indebted and subservient to the system.

Then buy silver or gold and shut up. That's all it takes to opt out of the fiat currency system.

 

[Dr Kynes]

Our wages haven't been shrinking since 1913 but increasing, even after reflecting all those price increases you're referring to. Nice try.

bullshit. a man with a steady job in 1913 could expect to keep a roof over his head, and provide for his family, these days you have to go into hock, your wife must also work, and we work harder for less than we have for 50 years.

in 1913, a man who died with no debts, no mortgage on his farm, 50 lbs of silver in a sack in his basement and a bank account with $5000 in it would not wind up liquidating everything to pay the estate tax.

in 1913 a high school diploma and a couple years of college would have put me among the educated, not the rednecks, even education is suffering from "inflation" so we spend more and more time and energy in school just to try and stay ahead of the curve. in every measure, those of us in the working class are getting FUCKED by people like you in the clerk class.

Then buy silver or gold and shut up. That's all it takes to opt out of the fiat currency system.

because my stagnant wages, shrivelling dollars and rising taxes makes saving so easy in the RED HOT obamaconomy. whats next, you gonmna tell me how badass the "summer of recovery" (july 12 through july 23, 2012) was, and how i should be grateful for the sterling leadership of gethner bernanke and obama? or are you more of a greenspan man?

IT DOESNT MATTER! greenspan did the same shit, the same way, just with more wrinkles saggier balls and a hotter trophy wife.

 

[tokeprep]

bullshit. a man with a steady job in 1913 could expect to keep a roof over his head, and provide for his family, these days you have to go into hock, your wife must also work, and we work harder for less than we have for 50 years.

in 1913, a man who died with no debts, no mortgage on his farm, 50 lbs of silver in a sack in his basement and a bank account with $5000 in it would not wind up liquidating everything to pay the estate tax.

in 1913 a high school diploma and a couple years of college would have put me among the educated, not the rednecks, even education is suffering from "inflation" so we spend more and more time and energy in school just to try stay ahead of the curve. in every measure, those of us in the working class are getting FUCKED by people like you in the clerk class.
and

Your man in 1913 earned $740 a year in 1913, the equivalent of $17,381 today. Your man in 2013 earns more than that. So much for your point.

Likewise, even a minimum wage worker today is better off than the equivalent of a minimum wage worker in 1913. Fact. Your assertions are just that--meaningless words.

because my stagnant wages, shrivelling dollars and rising taxes makes saving so easy in the RED HOT obamaconomy. whats next, you gonmna tell me how badass the "summer of recovery" (july 12 through july 23, 2012) was, and how i should be grateful for the sterling leadership of gethner bernanke and obama? or are you more of a greenspan man?

IT DOESNT MATTER! greenspan did the same shit, the same way, just with more wrinkles saggier balls and a hotter trophy wife.

Silver costs $22 an ounce, with the price declining over the past several years. You've got no complaint about your "shrivelling dollars" and "rising taxes." Really, rising taxes? You claim to make minimum wage, meaning you pay $0 in tax every year.

 

[ChesusRice]

Taxes are lower than they have been for the last 60+ years

 

[ginwilly]

Marginal rates are lower, affective rates are about the same federally.
How about hidden taxes, sales taxes, state taxes, local taxes, license fees, gas taxes, utility taxes etc.

Our overall tax expenditures have been on the rise consistently and our tax code has added thousands of complications, loops holes and special rules too making the tax filing game a huge cost and exercise in paying the proper rates without going to jail or screwing yourself out of your own money.

Nobody really paid 90%.

Fair tax ftw!!

 

[blacksun]

Taxes are lower than they have been for the last 60+ years

obama is spending more, taxing less, and you think the deficit has gone down?!

lol

 

[woody333333]

Thanks for your anecdotal story. My grandfathers didn't save any silver coins. I don't know anyone else who had a grandfather who saved silver coins. So much for anecdotal evidence.


my grandparents owned a restaurant for decades............they took every piece of silver out that register gold notes silver notes oragami swans...........those stupid 1976 quarters and santa claus dollars

now u know 2

 

[bwest]

I want a good job, not a sucky low wage one. I can make more money on my own otherwise.

Unfortunately, most of the jobs created in this recovery are in the sucky low wage category.

A sucky low paying job is better than no job. low pay better than no pay.
If you have any skills, a good job shouldn't be hard to find. Come to North Dakota, If you want to make money, Wal-mart starts at 14 an hr.

 

[budsmoker87]

A sucky low paying job is better than no job. low pay better than no pay.
If you have any skills, a good job shouldn't be hard to find. Come to North Dakota, If you want to make money, Wal-mart starts at 14 an hr.

hey man you in Williston ND?

 

[cannabineer]

It's intersting to see how the two sides are arguing about purchasing power 1913 v 2013. I also see how some interesting points (e.g. a clerical worker in 1913 could raise a family and save to buy a house) are ignored as inconvenient.

It's obvious that a direct comparison of purchasing power across the century is difficult. The portion of income that went to electronics cannot have been significant a century ago. So arguing about "did they have a TV, refrigerator" etc. back then is specious imo.

This isn't a perfect example either, but let's compare something that was available and valuable then as now: arable land. (It's imperfect because much arable land has been consumed by builders of residential and commercial properties) (highlighting inter alia that there are more noses per acre now ... increased demand for a fixed supply, barring the occasional tectonic rezoning).
In 1913, the median acre in the Southwest went for ~130.
In 2013, California farmland averaged from a low of $15000 per acre (for Fresno table grape land) to $300000 (Sonoma wine acreage). This is apples-to-apples, even though it'll be skewed by the imponderables, the ones that make standard of living then vs. now so difficult to interpret. That sort of sociology makes the climate science models look like bankers' bookkeeping. All jmo. cn

 

[twostrokenut]

• 1913 barber dime......worth 10cents in 1913 even though silver spot was less.​
  
  

• Your 1913 dime was worth 10 cents in 1913. Period.​
  
  

• I literally just posted that the dime was worth 10 cents in 1913​
  
  

• You did no such thing. You described what the silver content in a 1913 dime is worth today, not what that dime bought in 1913, 1920, 1930, 1940, 1950, or 1960​
  
  

• The dime always bought 10cents worth of shit till the scrap value exceeded the face value, then it bought more unless you were mentally challenged and don't know that metal has value.​
  
  

And around and around you go...You are focusing on the spot price of the coin back in the day, which is irrelevant. Spot price today is relevant because it measures devaluation of a dollar.

 

[cannabineer]

I can't seem to break into this one. No worries; I'll desist. cn

 

[twostrokenut]

I can't seem to break into this one. No worries; I'll desist. cn

You're right, what was available then and now....and how much savings people had then and now.

Someone please explain to me how every house was 1000 sqft or less back in the day

My grandpa saved silver, but you dont know me.

 

[cannabineer]

Iirc ... back then, houses were primarily for rural dwellers. Those were larger than 1000 sq ft because they contained usually the extended family as well as a good deal of the hardware needed to do farm/ranch chores that are foreign to most of us today. Like putting up turnips.

The rest of us tended to live in apartments (rowhouses for the better-off). Single-family homes, suburbs etc. were introduced to the American psyche after World War 2.

I don't know much about savings habits in the Teens. This preceded the stock trading mania of the Twenties, which briefly changed attitudes toward money before the Thirties forcibly undid that ... and I'd be curious to have your thoughts on that. cn

 

[Mr Neutron]

How so? The taxpayers get to keep the profits, they don't pay interest.

The Grace Commission: 100% of income taxes collected go to pay the interest on the debt.
Profits? What profits? I never got my share.

Most people on fixed incomes get cost of living adjustments. Most people "living on their savings" aren't living on their cash savings.

LOL. COLAs do not keep up with REAL inflation.
MOST, meaning "fuck those that don't participate wholeheartedly in the fraud"... democracy in action. More of that famous progressive​ compassion.

Obviously inflation does negatively impact some people who are at the very bottom. But any monetary system would hurt someone. If we were on the gold/silver standard, a huge fluctuation in gold prices would devastate someone too.

Inflation negatively impacts everyone.
A monetary system based on value hurts nobody.
Please show me where precious metals had huge fluctuations in value in the absence of a fiat reserve currency.

 

[Mr Neutron]

Neutron gets 900 a month in income
Lives in Mexico
and complains about taxes in the USA

Cheesus thinks that poor Americans should fork over their "fair share" and stfu.
He also thinks that moving outside the borders of the US magically excuse you of paying extortion to the IRS.

 

[Mr Neutron]

You need to calculate everything to arrive at meaningful numbers.

Like energy costs? Tell the Fed.

 

[Mr Neutron]

Very few people saved their coins from 1955

If that were true, there would be no silver dimes, quarters, halves and dollars today.